What if Chicago Loses Its Gun Case? (an analysis by the Bradys).

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LickitySplit

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I'm curious to hear from THR's legal and Constitutional minds regarding the truthfulness of the following opinion piece...

by Dennis Henigan on June 1st, 2010 Permalink

As the Supreme Court’s term enters its last month, we still await the Court’s ruling in McDonald v. City of Chicago, the Second Amendment challenge to Chicago’s handgun ban. The case poses the question whether the right to be armed recognized by the Court in its 2008 ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller applies to constrain state and local gun laws. Although most observers think the same five justices who made up the 5-4 Heller majority will vote to extend the right to states, cities and counties, many may be too quick to predict dire consequences for gun control from such a ruling.

Two consequences are most likely from a ruling striking down Chicago’s handgun ban. First, the decision will be used by the gun lobby, as well as gun criminals, to challenge a myriad of state and local gun laws. Second, with few exceptions, those challenges will fail. We can say this with some confidence for several reasons.

First, it is important to keep in mind the nature and scope of the right that would be applied to states and localities. In the words of Justice Scalia’s majority opinion, the Second Amendment guarantees “the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home.” The Heller decision confers no rights on those who have violated the law or acted irresponsibly. In addition, the Heller right applies only to self-defense in the home, not to carrying guns in public. Although some have expressed concern that a ruling against Chicago would cripple “stop and frisk” and other law enforcement tactics against illegal carrying of guns on the street, nothing in Heller itself would jeopardize those tactics.

Second, the Heller majority went out of its way to make clear that strong gun regulation short of a handgun ban would still be permissible, regardless of the new right to be armed. According to Justice Scalia, the Second Amendment right is not “to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” Instead, the Court said, “nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt” on several broad categories of gun laws, which the Court said remain “presumptively lawful.” Those categories, which the Court said did “not purport to be exhaustive,” include laws imposing conditions on the sale of guns (which could include background checks, licensing, registration, etc.), bans on dangerous and unusual weapons (which could include machine guns and assault weapons), and prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons. Heller’s assurance that prohibiting concealed weapons remains “presumptively lawful” further suggests that extending the Heller right to the states would pose no threat to police tactics against illegal guns on the streets.

Heller’s narrow definition of the right to be armed, and its reassuring language about other guns laws, thus far have ensured the defeat of virtually every post-Heller challenge to federal gun restrictions. (Two judges struck down provisions of the Adam Walsh Act barring gun possession by persons awaiting trial for child pornography offenses, a vindication of “gun rights” about which the NRA has been oddly silent.) Even the strong gun laws passed by the District of Columbia in the wake of Heller, which include a registration system, fingerprinting and training requirements, an assault weapon ban, a limit on gun purchases, and other provisions far stronger than federal law, recently were upheld as entirely consistent with Heller. This should embolden Chicago to enact similarly strong laws even if its handgun ban is struck down.

In assessing the likely impact on other gun laws of a Chicago defeat, one additional fact generally has been overlooked. As the gun lobby likes to boast, forty-two states already have provisions in their state constitutions interpreted by the courts to confer an individual right to be armed for personal purposes unrelated to militia service; that is, an interpretation similar to that given the Second Amendment in Heller. Gun laws in those states already have been challenged under these state constitutional provisions and, as Professor Adam Winkler of UCLA Law School writes, “only a fraction of state gun laws have been invalidated on the basis of the right to bear arms since World War II.”

Of course, these state court rulings are not binding on the federal or state courts as they apply the new Heller right. Nevertheless, in all but eight states, those bringing Second Amendment challenges to state and local gun laws will confront a consistent judicial tradition of according great leeway to legislative judgments about how the right to be armed may properly be regulated. And of the six states that do not have right to bear arms provisions in their constitutions (California, Iowa, Maryland, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York), or that recognize only a militia-related right (Kansas and Massachusetts), all but Iowa, Minnesota and Kansas have very strong traditions favoring gun control and, of course, no tradition of judicial interference with gun laws.

If Chicago’s law is struck down, it will no doubt be hailed by the NRA as a great victory, as was Heller. But the most ardent “gun rights” advocates can barely hide their disappointment with the practical impact of Heller. They likely have more disappointments to come after McDonald.

http://blog.bradycampaign.org/?p=2316
 
Well, it's obviously highly biased in favor of their own political ideology, but that's hardly surprising.
...regardless of the new right to be armed...

"New" right? It is NOT a new right. It is one that has always existed. Again, this is reflective of their own stilted interpretation of the 2A.

....Although some have expressed concern that a ruling against Chicago would cripple “stop and frisk” and other law enforcement tactics ....


Hmmmm, I guess the Brady Bunch apparantly doesn't believe in the fourth amendment either -- unless this is simply a poorly worded statement on their philosophy......

....According to Justice Scalia, the Second Amendment right is not “to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” Instead, the Court said, “nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt” on several broad categories of gun laws, which the Court said remain “presumptively lawful.” Those categories, which the Court said did “not purport to be exhaustive,” include laws imposing conditions on the sale of guns (which could include background checks, licensing, registration, etc.), bans on dangerous and unusual weapons (which could include machine guns and assault weapons), and prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons......

He's waxing almost onanistic on what ("presumptively") the government would be allowed to do, even under Heller.

I remain in a state of perplexity over just what part of "shall not be infringed" a certain segment of society has a problem understanding?

*!SIGH!*
 
Translation: Dear Brady supporters, all is not lost yet. We will keep fighting. Please don't stop sending us money even though it looks like the tide has turned away from banning guns. We are now just trying to keep the anti-gun laws we have on the books.
 
Whistling in the graveyard. He is however correct that the fight for 2A rights will hardly be over if the SCOTUS comes down in favor of McDonald.

I am quite sure Daley already has a slew of laws ready to propose that would make it so onerous to legally possess a hangun in Chicago that many people would simply give up or not even try in the first place.

If SCOTUS rules in favor of McDonald it will be important, but just one of the first steps in an ongoing fight.
 
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That high-pitched whine you hear coming from the Brady Bunch is their spin machine set on high. As with anything you spin at a high rate, it becomes gyroscopic. They'll have it spinning so fast they'll not be able to turn it in any direction the Court REALLY heads off in and they'll crash. It's analogous to that giving enough rope thingie.

Just wait, watch, and get out the lemon squeezer and sugar bowl. I'm preparing to make something sweet out of whatever the Court harvests.

Woody
 
That high-pitched whine you hear coming from the Brady Bunch is their spin machine set on high.

Also the sound of their money begging machine. For the casual donor, the loss of Heller and now MacDonald shows that Brady is ineffective.

Their cash flow has all but stopped, even from the big institutional donors.

The next sound will be of the group disbanding and reappearing under a different name.
 
Dennis the Menace is pushing the absolute limits--although I know he is arguing for his "client" the BC, he is still trying to throw everything he can think of against the wall to get something to stick
 
First, the decision will be used by the gun lobby, as well as gun criminals, to challenge a myriad of state and local gun laws.

So now we will have Murder Inc and the NRA side by side filing suit against gun bans elsewhere? This sentence made me laugh, yep, going to get a whole slew of criminals challenging laws now because of this.
 
What a lot of folks forget is this is but the NEXT step, not the last step.

I will make two possible asnd not unreasonable assumptions

1. That the SC rules that 2A is helds to be directly applicable to the states and is not solely applicable to the federal level

2. The level of scrutiny applied is Heighted Intermediate Scrutiny

No laws will fall on the day, none whatsoever.

Each restrictive law will need to be individually challenged and defeated and a solid and expanding base of case law will need to be built up.

The Daley's of this world will fight 'cause it's an affront to them and their perceived God Given authority and, lets be honest 'cause it's not their money they will be using to fight it.

My opinion and it's worth every penny you paid for it, is whilst there are a minority of justices who may not be overly happy with Heller etc, they are far more pissed if people decide to try and f* around with their rulings.

If Daley et-al try and screw around with the intent and letter of the ruling they could find themselves on a federal charge of deprivation of civil liberties under color of law.

Now that would be fun to watch......
 
First, thanks, Bubbles, for sharing the information on the Brady Campaign's money woes. Gloating aside, that tells us a lot about public support for gun control. From the same website, some information about the money apparently flowing into the gun rights movement: http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=Q12

Generally, while Henigan is trying to spin things to favor the anti-rights perspective, the overall gist of what he's saying is correct: neither Heller nor McDonald (assuming a win for gun rights) is the end of the struggle. This will be a protracted battle, with ups and down, that we will be fighting for decades. The anti-rights crowd will push their agenda forever and will always have some incident to exploit or some statistic to twist to rationalize their viewpoint.

We need to accept that we will always have to claw and fight for our rights.
 
Strange how Mr. Hennigan spent so much time in amici briefs arguing that both Heller and McDonald would have disastrous effects for gun control and now he is busy reassuring his donors that this isn't the case at all.

I don't think he is foolish enough not to see the future implications of these two rulings; so I would have to lean towards saying that he is doing his best to paint a rosy picture for his remaining supporters. He does this mainly by concentrating on a very narrow view of both Heller and McDonald and then presuming that as yet unheard future cases are going to fall in his favor.

Heller’s narrow definition of the right to be armed, and its reassuring language about other guns laws, thus far have ensured the defeat of virtually every post-Heller challenge to federal gun restrictions.

Actually, that footnote has been a blessing for gun rights. Judges use it to dismiss clams without doing any real analysis of the underlying legal issues. The end result for us has been that "hail Mary" claims by criminals go nowhere; but well-planned, well-litigated challenges like Heller II move steadily forward.

Even the strong gun laws passed by the District of Columbia in the wake of Heller, which include a registration system, fingerprinting and training requirements, an assault weapon ban, a limit on gun purchases, and other provisions far stronger than federal law, recently were upheld as entirely consistent with Heller.

Upheld by the District Court - meaning the lowest level of review. The District Court also denied the original challenge by Parker/Heller as well and we all know how that turned out. The fact that the District Court did it with questionable legal analysis and a heavily reliance on footnote 26 is just going to help us in the long run.

But the most ardent “gun rights” advocates can barely hide their disappointment with the practical impact of Heller. They likely have more disappointments to come after McDonald.

Probably true, as you can see by reading the comments here at THR. Many don't understand that Heller was nothing more than finally going on the offensive after a long slog in the trenches - it wasn't the end of the war. Just the beginning of the end as Churchill might say. There are going to be a lot more fights after McDonald and it is unlikely we are going to win them all; but I'll bet the future caselaw looks a lot more like I want it to look than it does like Mr. Hennigan wants it to look.
 
BS spin on a valid core.

Although anything is still possible, money is on heller incorporating the 2nd. However, they won't be spelling out a lot of details just like they didn't last time. The RKBA side of things will have to fight each an every crappy law. but like Archemedes said “Give me a place to stand and with a lever I will move the whole world.”

The article is also correct that the court said many existing laws are presumptively lawful. However, it tries to spin it as if the court outlined all the crap it talks about as being spelled out as ok for the government to do. They in fact made few if any specific comments except that inherent in the 2nd was some measure of right to defend oneself. Basically they said, we aren't going to rule on every law, you will have to sort those out in lower courts, and for the moment we will presume the government isn't breaking the law without further scrutiny.

It could go the way they suggest, it could also be that we wind up back at the supreme court arguing if shall issue CCW permits are a right and may issue is unconstitutional.
 
Every wild eyed pro-gunner who thinks we are on the verge of entering 2nd Amendment utopia should be required to read this.
 
Wishful thinking on the part of the Brady-Bunch...
exactly!

Henigan and the Bradys no doubt are overlooking the high probability that the 5 justices learned a lesson from DC's and the rest of the country's response to their Heller ruling.
 
I will make two possible asnd not unreasonable assumptions

1. That the SC rules that 2A is helds to be directly applicable to the states and is not solely applicable to the federal level

2. The level of scrutiny applied is Heighted Intermediate Scrutiny

No laws will fall on the day, none whatsoever.
I agree with you except as to #2. I don't think the court is going to apply any standard of scrutiny. My crystal ball tells me that the court will find the 2A applicable to the states and then remand the case to the lower court. However, even if the court does happen to reach the merits of the case, I still doubt that they apply any standard of scrutiny. Instead, they will probably find that the Chicago law bans the possession of handguns in the home and rely on the Heller decision to find that the law is unconstitutional.
 
I'm no constitutional scholar. That said, the quoted release in the OP is filled to the brim with the absurd, probably capped by that bit about criminals challenging gun laws.

But I will forever be grateful to the Brady bunch for the discussion; if nothing else, we got this quote of the day out of their efforts:

He's waxing almost onanistic on what ("presumptively") the government would be allowed to do, even under Heller.


:D :D
 
So now we will have Murder Inc and the NRA side by side filing suit against gun bans elsewhere? This sentence made me laugh, yep, going to get a whole slew of criminals challenging laws now because of this.

Well actually that is how the court system works.
Many people don't even have standing unless they are accused of violating some law, or otherwise can show a specific loss.
Rather than explain standing, I will say that criminal cases are primarily what set case law.


A great example is the Miller case that started half of this mess. Miller was a criminal, when he died nobody cared to come argue the case on his behalf because he was a clear criminal. But his case was before the SCOTUS and questioning what was and was not a legal firearm. The SCOTUS needed someone to submit evidence on his behalf to consider it, but nobody did.
Had a group like the NRA came along and picked up the case most of the NFA would likely have been defeated, as noted in the SCOTUS decision.
The decision which essentially said if someone had shown a short barreled shotgun had been used in some militia or military context, it would have been legal.
Guess what was a popular ww1 firearm? Trench guns, including short barreled ones.
Without even going into the history of short barreled scatterguns before smokeless.

Yet nobody did. He was not the kind of individual anyone wanted to be associated with.
Leaving the US stuck with the NFA, and setting the foundation for future things like the GCA, the Brady Bill, and the AWB to name a few.


Most of your rights and protections as a citizen are based on what is decided appropriate or valid for criminals.
If a criminal with legal standing successfully has a case concerning a specific law or the application of a law or restriction appealed to a higher court that sets precedent for most other citizens.
Nearly half of the Bill of Rights specifically deals with the treatment a criminal (accused) should receive.

If a criminal makes a valid legal argument in a higher court, and the court decides against them or in a way that further reduces freedom, it sets precedent for all law abiding citizens.



Another example is most rights are won by criminals. All those people who violated the laws of the Jim Crowe south in civil disobedience were criminals.
People breaking the law and using a whites only bathroom? Criminals.
Getting on a bus and refusing to sit where they legally were supposed to? Criminals.
Protesting in violation of the law without the proper permits? Criminals.
Organizing illegal protests where some members gain mob mentality and vandalize or attack, or do so after you speak against injustices (inciting a riot)? Criminals.

Prohibition also ended because everyone chose to break the law and be criminals. Drinking was so popular during prohibition that it spilled over into general disdain for many other portions of the law, and criminals became celebrities.
Prohibition was eventually repealed because of all the criminals who chose to manufacture and purchase booze in violation of the law.
Had most of society followed the law it would have remained on the books.


Now it is great when it is a non-criminal that manages to gain standing and challenge an unjust law. It means public sentiment will be stronger for them, and success based on the merits of the argument is more likely.
But for the vast majority of rights we must depend on court decisions regarding criminals.
 
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National Public Radio (NPR) carried a National Review article on the Chicago ban subject:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127364768
Pulling Chicago's Gun Ban Trigger by John R. Lott Jr., June 2, 2010.

The problem with gun laws is they attack things owned by millions of the law abiding because criminals misuse them (a ratio of 1 gun criminal per ~200 gun owners). Since anything that can be done wrong with a gun is already against the law (murder, armed robbery, assault, reckless endangerment) the loss of useless gun laws will probably not affect public safety.

Maybe a new age of promoting legal, responsibile gun ownership among the lawabiding and targeting criminal behaviors would be an improvement.
 
Henigan is just blabbing basically. He picked out the only 2 or 3 sentences that don't completely eviscerate the Brady mission, and made it seem like those were the only important parts of the opinion. But, like most "facts" that leave his mouth, he's dead wrong.

Scalia opining that not every single law will be struck down and that we cannot carry any gun we want, anywhere we want, at any time we want, means exactly that - not every single gun law is unconstitutional. It does not mean what Henigan claims, which is basically, in my own words, "because they said they wouldn't strike down every law, it means they will uphold most laws."

Brady knows the devastating impact these decisions will have on their mission and these types of claims are their last ditch effort to calm the nerves of what few supporters they have and mitigate the damage to their crusade. These 2 cases form what is essentially the basis of 2nd Amendment jurisprudence, and Brady ignorantly (or perhaps deliberately) ignores that, and believes it stops here, instead of begins here.

Assuming we win McDonald, which even Brady believes will happen, we will be 2 for 2. Last time I checked that's a 1.000 batting average, a perfect score. We may not be successful in challenging every gun law, but we are certainly on the way to carving out many substantive constitutional gun rights. Henigan's claims that they mean nothing is simply frustration. If these cases weren't worth talking about, he wouldn't be talking about them.

Articles like this are the most telling signs of Brady's decline and in my opinion, are an acknowledgment of the weakness of their position. Essentially, they have been relegated to addressing landmark Supreme Court decisions by saying, "nu uhhh!!"
 
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"May issue" --discretionary permit or license -- is a violation of due process and equal justice under the law. I am surprised it has not been challenged on opoints besides 2A, just simple due process and equal justice rules.
Imagine a discretionary "may issue if the judge or sheriff likes your complexion" drivers license law. How long would that stand?
 
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