What if it was you?

[ProficientRifleman]

http://www.nbc6.net/news/15843682/detail.html

MIAMI --
Officers from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives barged into a South Florida home Wednesday only to discover they had the wrong address.

The ATF agents were supposed to conduct a raid at a home in the 2600 block of Northwest 49th Terrace in northwest Miami-Dade County, but they were off by one block. They entered a house on Northwest 49th Street instead.

Philomaine Silvain and her 3-year-old son were among the innocent people inside the home when the agents came in.

Silvain pointed out damage to her front door.

"The door's right here," Silvain said. "There's a hole right here. It's broken."

Her back window was also broken from where federal agents fired canisters into the apartment at about 11:30 p.m. Wednesday.

The agents left the tear gas cans in the house, and Silvain kicked them out and into the street before dumping them into the garbage.

No one from the ATF would speak to NBC 6 on camera, but a representative said over the phone that it was an innocent mistake, agents apologized on the scene and ATF would repair any damages.

Silvain's door has already been fixed. However, she said she plans on speaking with a lawyer.

The officers did arrest the man they actually were looking for one street away.

 

[ursus americanas]

Well, I can certainly think of one way to make things a whole LOT WORSE...

When considering the defense of your home and loved ones, never has there been a better reason to remind yourself that Murphy is a BIT$H! I think a lot of people here would have the same response as me when you hear glass breaking in your home at 2330, but we should all keep in mind that things aren't always what they seem, and misconceptions can cost you dearly.

That said, a good lawyer seems to be in order for that family. If the gov's breakin' in, I'm cashin' in!

 

[JCMAG]

This is something that has long bothered me...

Why is it necessary to "raid" people's homes? Why can't they just knock? Did they have reason to believe that the people inside the house would fire upon them unprovoked?

If they can't get the address right, I'm thinking they had absolutely no premise to believe that it was necessary to break down doors and tear-gas people.

Someone remind me why the federal government has officers anyway? Shouldn't the state or local enforcement officers be handling this?

I feel bad for the kid... Maybe he will grow up to distrust the government. He will be better for it...

 

[romma]

I can only tell you that the night the car smashed into the house I lived in few years ago,,, my pistol was in my hand in less than a second. Loaded and chambered from the start.

Who knows for sure, I would probably be shot if I popped out the bedroom armed.

 

[Cato the Roman]

The quote concerning 100 million people murdered by their gov't, I have heard before. Does anyone know the source?

 

[Larry E]

I've got to agree that if the "agents" who entered this poor woman's home can't even find the correct address maybe they should be doing something where people won't get hurt. Emptying the trash, sweeping the floors, that sort of thing, no slams at janitors attended. I hate to think what would have happened if she'd had a gun and attempted to defend her home. She'd have been killed no doubt, and the agents would have gotten off as well.

In Western WA a few years back a law enforcement agency kicked in the wrong door, the resident was apparently half asleep on the couch. When the tv remote control came up over the back of the couch he was shot dead. "An honest mistake", is how I remember the apology.

 

[bensdad]

She'd have been killed no doubt,

Actually, there is some doubt. There have been at least a couple of instances recently where LE have suffered casualties and defensive-minded homeowners have not. There was the one that got all the press... the guy shot through the door as I recall? There was also one in the Twin Cities (Mpls./St. Paul) area. The homeowner killed one cop and tagged another, iirc.

 

[goalie]

Well, I was never that lucky in combat, and I don't think anything has changed in the last 15 years, except I am not as young or well-trained anymore.

I guess I would end up getting shot, because even in my dreams, my brain won't let me take on a SWAT team and win.

 

[guntotinguy]

Silvain's door has already been fixed. However, she said she plans on speaking with a lawyer.

Definitely the smart thing to do,at least what took place was 'documented' and not swept under the rug,so to speak.One needs to exercise their 'rights' if one wishes to keep them in our day and age.

 

[Honu]

I thought I read somewhere that some criminals were dressing up as agents as they bust in the door ?

a door busting in and voices screaming FEDERAL AGENTS !!!
I might pause as I dont want to get myself and family wasted !
but would that pause be bad guys ?


so if you heard that would you pause ?

if the bad guys have the same black outfits and guns would you pause ? if so that alone could cost you dearly


I think with all the technology that agents have there should be no way on earth anymore they mess up and get the wrong house !!!!!!

 

[plexreticle]

The agents should be convicted of breaking and entering.

Do this a couple of times and the number of wrong address no knock warrants will diminish rapidly

 

[mekender]

What if it was you?

id be about 6 months of litigation away from being a multi-millionare

 

[doc2rn]

With all the billions spent on these agencies you would have thought someone could have hopped down to bestbuy for a GPS. I saw on here yesterday someone broke into an FBI cruiser for one.

 

[romma]

The quote concerning 100 million people murdered by their gov't, I have heard before. Does anyone know the source?

Actually Cato, I took the rounded stastic (100 million) and made the rest of the quote myself.

 

[El Tejon]

Cato, The Black Book of Communism (the English title): http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/COUBLA.html

We must ask, "why are tax clerks doing this?"

ATF must be destroyed.

 

[Tribal]

Seriously, though, what's to be done? The odds of a crackdown on this sort of thing occurring short of a horrific tragedy are virtually nothing.

 

[Guitargod1985]

I'd be dead.

When the news story finally came out I'm sure there would be some kind of controlled substance that magically happened to materialize in my residence. Also, one of my shotguns would undoubtedly have a barrel 17 7/8" in length.

 

[Deanimator]

To paraphrase Josef Stalin, "Sue, sue and sue some more."

I don't believe in settling in such cases, since among other things, such settlements usually include non-disclosure clauses. Nothing on earth could prevent me from dragging the participants' professional reputations and personal character through an endless trough of mud. By the time I was done, the agents and their supervisors would be shunned even by NAMBLA members.

There is NO excuse for such stupidity and anyone who gets the wrong house is an ignoramus. Do that to me and it's the law of the vendetta, for as long as it takes and as much as it costs; I'll happily live under a bridge for the rest of my life if I can make you live under the next one down the highway.

 

[Gator]

Lucky they didn't kill the mom and three year old...

 

[hvengel]

I thought I read somewhere that some criminals were dressing up as agents as they bust in the door ?

This is not at all uncommon and has been happening for may decades. The people who do this normally target individuals that they think are involved in something illegal believing that using this tactic will give them the upper hand. Their goal is to steal the money or drugs from the targets "enterprise". But like these BATF agents they sometimes get the address wrong.

 

[coloradokevin]

Honestly... If this "was me", I doubt I'd have had any time to react anyway.

This was obviously a bad situation, human error. It sounds like the agency is trying to rectify the situation, and it certainly was a big bold mistake.

But, SWAT teams don't come lightly through a door. When they are utilized on warrants it is because of the risks of that warrant (same reason that they use a no-knock, versus the typical knock-and-announce).

When they do come through the door, you'll likely not know what hit you... Flash bangs, gas, and a team of highly trained folks filing in rapidly.

So, if it were me, I'd probably be sitting there blinking when they came in the door!

Why is it necessary to "raid" people's homes? Why can't they just knock? Did they have reason to believe that the people inside the house would fire upon them unprovoked?

Typically, yes (to varying degrees). At least in my department, no-knock warrants are used for those situations where it is considered too dangerous to use knock-and-announce tactics. In short, when our SWAT team bursts through the door, they do so because it is too risky for the uniformed officer to try to knock and say "police, we have a warrant... open the door". Some people really are bad folks, and they are already in a position of advantage by being inside of their house. On occasion we have to level the playing field!

I'm not advocating making a HUGE mistake like these guys did in this story, but it still explains why the so-called "raid" tactics are often appropriate.




[quote="guitargod1985]When the news story finally came out I'm sure there would be some kind of controlled substance that magically happened to materialize in my residence. Also, one of my shotguns would undoubtedly have a barrel 17 7/8" in length.[/quote]

Give me a break. Another conspiracy theory! I'm not saying that the situation in this story was at all acceptable, but it doesn't mean that the agents/officers in these cases are malicious criminals. They made a BIG mistake, but that doesn't in any way mean they would plant contraband to make you look bad in the press... Again, this was a huge mistake, but don't try to paint this picture of cops automatically being dirty!

Typical cop bashing.

 

[Kindrox]

Give me a break. Another conspiracy theory! I'm not saying that the situation in this story was at all acceptable, but it doesn't mean that the agents/officers in these cases are malicious criminals. They made a BIG mistake, but that doesn't in any way mean they would plant contraband to make you look bad in the press... Again, this was a huge mistake, but don't try to paint this picture of cops automatically being dirty!

Just like this did not happen in Atlanta

Calling a spade a spade is not cop bashing it is recognizing our current reality for what it is. I don't think very many people on the forum really think the majority of police are dirty and dishonest. However I bet YOU know an officer who is and are defacto covering for him/her.

I know the bad apples at my job, you don't know the bad apples at yours???

I also there are practical issues with reporting what you know but cannot prove, so I am not on a high horse. Just be carefull about getting up on yours.

 

[Andrewsky]

Cato the Roman said:

The quote concerning 100 million people murdered by their gov't, I have heard before. Does anyone know the source?

Most of those come from the People's Republic of China. In the 1950's and 1960's, it's estimated that over 50 million Chinese starved to death or died because of the government.

The other deaths come from the Holocaust, the Armenian genocide, Cambodia, Uganda, and a few other places.

 

[coloradokevin]

Calling a spade a spade is not cop bashing it is recognizing our current reality for what it is. I don't think very many people on the forum really think the majority of police are dirty and dishonest. However I bet YOU know an officer who is and are defacto covering for him/her.

I know the bad apples at my job, you don't know the bad apples at yours???

I also there are practical issues with reporting what you know but cannot prove, so I am not on a high horse. Just be carefull about getting up on yours.

Yes, I know guys on the job who shouldn't be cops (at least in my opinion). I know guys with bad attitudes, and poor work ethics, and an inability to properly conduct an investigation.

I DO NOT know cops commiting felonies on the job. I don't know cops planting evidence, and I wouldn't begin to cover up for one who was... Yes, police officers are known for looking out for their "brother" officers. But, any cop who does these sort of things is no brother of mine.

You mention proof... Certainly something could be happening that I don't know about. That doesn't mean I would tolerate it if I did! In fact, a couple of guys have been fired from my department within the past two years because other officers found out about illegal things they were doing, and turned them in. I knew one of the guys, and would have never begun to expect that he was doing the things he was doing. Can you honestly fault me for the fact that I was unaware of his misdeeds? If I knew, I'd have reported it too.

I have an obligation to my fellow officers, but I also have a moral and ethical obligation to myself. And, despite some of the rhetoric that is heard when a bad cop is exposed, I think that most cops fall on my end of the spectrum.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

No one from the ATF would speak to NBC 6 on camera, but a representative said over the phone that it was an innocent mistake, agents apologized on the scene and ATF would repair any damages.

The people who did this clearly demonstrated they are not to be trusted with guns or badges. When is the drumming-out ceremony?