zaijian
Member
A two-part article, comments wanted and welcome.
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What If?
You've probably heard about the VT shooting by now:
However, it's even worse in light of this:
It won't be long before both sides of the argument starts comparisons to Columbine:
The anti-gun group will again argue for tougher restrictions and more gun control, even though such methods are proven time and time again to be more harm than help.
The pro-gun group will again be proven correct in that gun control only affects the law-abiding, and not the criminals.
So, the rhetorical questions begin:
What if one teacher at Columbine had been armed?
What if one student at Virginia Tech had been armed?
Now, college students are not known for a developed sense of personal responsibility, so maybe allowing them to CCW may not sound like the wisest choice. However, that's a training issue. We allow college students to drive cars and keep keys in their rooms, even though there's a very good chance of drunkenness and stupidity. But we hammer into their heads every chance we get to not drink and drive. Why not simply apply the same method to firearms? Now I can't back this up with data (although if anybody comes across some, let me know), but has the drunk-driving rate been affected by tougher drunk-driving penalties? Likewise, why not do the same thing with firearm offenses?
Besides, in many states, having a CCW permit implies 2 things: that 1) you have a clean criminal record, and 2) you have taken a handgun safety course. And statistically, CCW licensees have been proven to be a very law-abiding and responsible group (there are, as always, a few bad apples - but such in the CCW community are exceedingly rare). I'd like to think that we can reliably count on a CCW licensee, even one in college, to be responsible enough to maintain control and be responsible with a firearm.
But Virginia Tech, like most campuses, has forbidden everybody, even the responsible, the option of self-defense. It's my contention that if you're going to take away the ability to self-protect, then you better darn well provide it for me. Otherwise it's just plain irresponsible. For that reason, I will not do business with any bank that will not allow CCW (especially in the Dayton area). BTW, compared to other cities with populations between 135k and 185k, Dayton (160k) ranks 1st in robbery, 3rd in forcible rape, 3rd in murder, and 7th in overall violent crime (source: FBI UCR 2005).
So, in the end, you have to find your own answer to this question:
Would you rather ask "What If?" - or would you rather have the answer?
Read my next post for some answers.
DISCLOSURE:
Yes, I'm an asian male, and I enjoy the proper use of firearms.
No, I've never been to Virginia Tech.
UPDATE 04/17/2007 01:05AM
Some more discussion in the comments:
But no, you don't feel confident enough in yourself and your abilities to be able to defend yourself. And apparently, by extension, you don't feel anybody is capable.
As your argument goes, if a law enforcement officer isn't capable of protecting himself, or others, then how could a non-law enforcement officer be capable?
That's like saying if a Nascar driver gets into an accident, then no one should drive, because it's obviously too dangerous.
But enough fun at Europe's expense.
Anyways, ask a British subject what their crime rate was before handguns were banned, and after they were banned. Ask an ozzie. Ask a Jewish holocaust survivor. Ask a white South African.
Clearly, not everybody will have either the will, discipline, or proper mindset to use a firearm.
But here is the cold, hard, reality.
The police are not responsible for your safety. They can boast of 5-minute emergency call response times all they want - but that doesn't help you at all if the trouble is a bit closer than that, does it? And plenty of lawsuits have proven that the police will not and can not be held responsible for their inability to protect you from harm.
The person ultimately responsible for your safety is yourself. You may use a gun, or you may not. Statistically speaking, the firearm has been proven to be most effective self-defense implement. However, at the very least, you have to decide that your life is worth preserving.
What strikes me most is that this crazed man killed/wounded 50+ people, and wasn't stopped until he killed himself. I don't care if you're John Wayne reincarnated, there's no way you can take out that many people with a handgun (or 5!) if they are fighting back. The high kill count and suicide of the gunman doesn't speak to me of resistance. It sounds like a slaughter.
Now, i'm not going to speak for the dead, or even pretend to know what happened there that morning, but it certainly seems to me, at this time, that these poor kids were told so often that "it could never happen here" that they believed it even when the exact opposite happened before their eyes.
Should everybody carry a gun? Certainly not.
But why not for those who are capable and willing?
And, what if, today, one had?
UPDATE 04/17/2007 01:21AM
From The Countertop Chronicles, a first-hand account of a VT student/victim/CCW licensee:
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What If?
You've probably heard about the VT shooting by now:
A horrible tragedy, in its own right.Gunman Kills 21 at Virginia Tech
Apr 16, 12:31 PM (ET)
By SUE LINDSEY
BLACKSBURG, Va. (AP) - A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing 21 people and wounding another 21 before he was killed, police said.
However, it's even worse in light of this:
Gun bill gets shot down by panel
HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee.
A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.
[...]
Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."(emphasis mine)
[...]
Most universities in Virginia require students and employees, other than police, to check their guns with police or campus security upon entering campus. The legislation was designed to prohibit public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."
[...]
Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners questioned the university's authority, while the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus.
In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities.
It won't be long before both sides of the argument starts comparisons to Columbine:
The anti-gun group will again argue for tougher restrictions and more gun control, even though such methods are proven time and time again to be more harm than help.
The pro-gun group will again be proven correct in that gun control only affects the law-abiding, and not the criminals.
So, the rhetorical questions begin:
What if one teacher at Columbine had been armed?
What if one student at Virginia Tech had been armed?
Now, college students are not known for a developed sense of personal responsibility, so maybe allowing them to CCW may not sound like the wisest choice. However, that's a training issue. We allow college students to drive cars and keep keys in their rooms, even though there's a very good chance of drunkenness and stupidity. But we hammer into their heads every chance we get to not drink and drive. Why not simply apply the same method to firearms? Now I can't back this up with data (although if anybody comes across some, let me know), but has the drunk-driving rate been affected by tougher drunk-driving penalties? Likewise, why not do the same thing with firearm offenses?
Besides, in many states, having a CCW permit implies 2 things: that 1) you have a clean criminal record, and 2) you have taken a handgun safety course. And statistically, CCW licensees have been proven to be a very law-abiding and responsible group (there are, as always, a few bad apples - but such in the CCW community are exceedingly rare). I'd like to think that we can reliably count on a CCW licensee, even one in college, to be responsible enough to maintain control and be responsible with a firearm.
But Virginia Tech, like most campuses, has forbidden everybody, even the responsible, the option of self-defense. It's my contention that if you're going to take away the ability to self-protect, then you better darn well provide it for me. Otherwise it's just plain irresponsible. For that reason, I will not do business with any bank that will not allow CCW (especially in the Dayton area). BTW, compared to other cities with populations between 135k and 185k, Dayton (160k) ranks 1st in robbery, 3rd in forcible rape, 3rd in murder, and 7th in overall violent crime (source: FBI UCR 2005).
So, in the end, you have to find your own answer to this question:
Would you rather ask "What If?" - or would you rather have the answer?
Read my next post for some answers.
DISCLOSURE:
Yes, I'm an asian male, and I enjoy the proper use of firearms.
No, I've never been to Virginia Tech.
UPDATE 04/17/2007 01:05AM
Some more discussion in the comments:
Maybe with a gun in your own hand, you could defend yourself. Because the only person ultimately responsible for your well-being is YOU.By tim, at 4/16/2007 09:30:00 PM
Ridiculous. In Valparaiso, Indiana, where I go to school, a cop shot a kidnapped woman instead of the kidnapper. If a trained officer can make a mistake like that, what is going to stop me from getting shot on campus by some jack off with a concealed gun who thinks he's protecting everyone?
But no, you don't feel confident enough in yourself and your abilities to be able to defend yourself. And apparently, by extension, you don't feel anybody is capable.
As your argument goes, if a law enforcement officer isn't capable of protecting himself, or others, then how could a non-law enforcement officer be capable?
That's like saying if a Nascar driver gets into an accident, then no one should drive, because it's obviously too dangerous.
You're right, Europe doesn't have the same problems. Europe's got a completely different set of problems, like "youths" "torching" cars, or yobs overrunning British society, or senior citizens dying in mild heat waves.By Anonymous, at 4/16/2007 11:47:00 PM
Guns are what's wrong with America. Guns should be outlawed. I don't get this post at all. You're saying you're bummed because the right to carry a concealed weapon on campus was shot down? Hallelujah! I live in Europe and we don't have this kind of stuff happening because it's hard as hell to get a gun in the first place and no one I know can understand Americans' obsession with guns.
But enough fun at Europe's expense.
Anyways, ask a British subject what their crime rate was before handguns were banned, and after they were banned. Ask an ozzie. Ask a Jewish holocaust survivor. Ask a white South African.
You make some very good points, Anonymous.By Anonymous, at 4/17/2007 12:41:00 AM
As horrific as this situation is...and countless lives are affected by this siuation and it is going to be a lot pointing the finger at what is to blame for this situation. Some say MORE GUN CONTROL... others say HEY WE SHOULD CARRY WEAPONS... the real problem is folks who have no regard for human life and decide to go on a rampage like that kill innocent people. But we are assuming that our problems would be solved if at least one person carried a weapon today other than the shooter. We cant begin to imagine the terror and stress that the students and faculty went through. Under perfect situation the ONE person carrying the gun would ignore all the fear and pull out the gun and fire perfectly and save the day!!! But like someone already said, Police officers hesitate all the time and they get paid to do it. Like it is nice to think in hypotheticals and try to make this situation seem better by finding something that we could have changed that would have made the situation better. We do that so we dont have to admit to ourselves that we live in troubled times. People are being slaughtered all over this world and until recent years the US has not understood how quickly things can happen and how sadistic some people are.
Now I do agree that making strick gun controls does not change a thing because I know people who have guns without permits. So I know that changing that aspect would not make anything better. However I dont think it is as black and white as saying okay every one who meets the criteria should go apply for CCW or whatever. This situation this tragedy opens up a whole sea of ideas about what needs to be done and It is not even close to being one dimensional.
Clearly, not everybody will have either the will, discipline, or proper mindset to use a firearm.
But here is the cold, hard, reality.
The police are not responsible for your safety. They can boast of 5-minute emergency call response times all they want - but that doesn't help you at all if the trouble is a bit closer than that, does it? And plenty of lawsuits have proven that the police will not and can not be held responsible for their inability to protect you from harm.
The person ultimately responsible for your safety is yourself. You may use a gun, or you may not. Statistically speaking, the firearm has been proven to be most effective self-defense implement. However, at the very least, you have to decide that your life is worth preserving.
What strikes me most is that this crazed man killed/wounded 50+ people, and wasn't stopped until he killed himself. I don't care if you're John Wayne reincarnated, there's no way you can take out that many people with a handgun (or 5!) if they are fighting back. The high kill count and suicide of the gunman doesn't speak to me of resistance. It sounds like a slaughter.
Now, i'm not going to speak for the dead, or even pretend to know what happened there that morning, but it certainly seems to me, at this time, that these poor kids were told so often that "it could never happen here" that they believed it even when the exact opposite happened before their eyes.
Should everybody carry a gun? Certainly not.
But why not for those who are capable and willing?
And, what if, today, one had?
UPDATE 04/17/2007 01:21AM
From The Countertop Chronicles, a first-hand account of a VT student/victim/CCW licensee:
Upon exiting the classroom, we were met at the doors leading outside by two armor-clad policemen with fully automatic weapons, plus their side arms. Once outside, there were several more officers with either fully automatic rifles and pump shotguns, and policemen running down the street, pistols drawn.
It was at this time that I realized that I had no viable means of protecting myself.
Please realize that I am licensed to carry a concealed handgun in the commonwealth of Virginia, and do so on a regular basis. However, because I am a Virginia Tech student, I am prohibited from carrying at school because of Virginia Tech’s student policy, which makes possession of a handgun an expellable offense, but not a prosecutable crime.
I had entrusted my safety, and the safety of others to the police. In light of this, there are a few things I wish to point out.
First, I never want to have my safety fully in the hands of anyone else, including the police.
Second, I considered bringing my gun with me to campus, but did not due to the obvious risk of losing my graduate career, which is ridiculous because had I been shot and killed, there would have been no graduate career for me anyway.
Third, and most important, I am trained and able to carry a concealed handgun almost anywhere in Virginia and other states that have reciprocity with Virginia, but cannot carry where I spend more time than anywhere else because, somehow, I become a threat to others when I cross from the town of Blacksburg onto Virginia Tech’s campus.
Of all of the emotions and thoughts that were running through my head that morning, the most overwhelming one was of helplessness.
[...continued...]