what is a dangerous weapon

[BURN]

OK...I know that guns come up all the time what about other tools that are frowned upon sometimes like Knives..


let me start off with...

I used to be LEO....(5yrs FSPD, 8Yrs CCSD)

I am not a lawyer.....

I always try to follow the law...

I want to carry a certian knife....

but I do not know if it is concidered a dagger...(Spyderco Temperance)
there are two states that I would EDC said knife....Texas,New Mexico

I live in Texas work in New Mexico (no longer LEO)

Texas law says no knife with a blade longer than 5.5"

Both states say no "Daggers"

so what is a dagger...

neither statute defines what a dagger acctually is

so I am wondering if any fixed knife is a dagger/dangerous weapon....

from my experience with LEO's from the inside I was given grief for carring small folders when I was a LEO if the other Officer thought/felt that the knife I had was scarry or offensive looking...

"If I stopped someone with that knife on them I would arrest them" kind of comments especially any of my curved bladed knives...regardless if I explained to them that a knife is a knife no matter if it looks like a utility knife or something that could slay a dragon...

CRKT BEARCLAW
SPYDERCO CIVILIAN
etc....

so what is a Dagger....to you

 

[kanook]

A Dagger is a longer Dirk

 

[BURN]

A Dagger is a longer Dirk

very funny

 

[Gouranga]

In NC (I realize this is a different state), a pocket knife, is specifically one that can be collapsed fully into it's handle. We have further restrictions on if it is spring loaded or not. I would GUESS, if your knife folds fully into its handle that it would not count as a dagger.

Beyond that...I am guessing it would be defined by 1. not being collapsible, 2. a specific length, 3. maybe by the handle/blase style (daggers I have are double-sided blades, handles are specifically designed for stabbing (vs slashing)).

Also not a lawyer, if you are really concerned, personally, I would contact state police in the state(s) you are worried about and present the question to them. My general experience with the state police I have called in matter such as that is they appreciate that you are attempting to stay within the law and they will help you out as much as they can.

 

[devildog32713]

I doubt they enforce that...kinda like in NC, you are breaking the law for carrying ice cream in your pocket, but when was the last time you read about someone in trouble for that in the paper?

 

[rallyhound]

My perception is that most "dangerous weapons" laws are there to give prosecuter more to charge bad guys with..

Carrying Dangerous weapons has more to due with intent than the object itself.

Gangster with small neck knife in downtown bar equals dangerous weapon.

Middle age guy with a 12 inch bowie in his pickup equals non dangerous weapon.

 

[ironcode]

BURN, a dagger is like a knife but only has a very sharp tip, it doesn't have the cutting surfaces (or, if it has them, they're not meant for cutting). It's a stabbing weapon; normally it's long and the sharp edges, if present, have very slight curve if at all, thus making it much more suitable for stabbing than cutting or slashing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagger

 

[Art Eatman]

Texas law seems ambiguous enough that a prudent person should operate more on common sense about other folks' perceptions than on trying to interpret each little possible detail. Not good, but "that's the way it is".

So, as a generality, my experience is that most LEOs in Texas seem undisturbed by folding knives with blades somewhere under four inches. A fixed blade knife of any size commonly seems to be viewed with suspicion.

Dirks and daggers are knives that are designed more for the limited purpose of stabbing, rather than general utility. Commonly two-edged, slender and tapered.

 

[BURN]

Texas law seems ambiguous enough that a prudent person should operate more on common sense about other folks' perceptions than on trying to interpret each little possible detail. Not good, but "that's the way it is".

So, as a generality, my experience is that most LEOs in Texas seem undisturbed by folding knives with blades somewhere under four inches. A fixed blade knife of any size commonly seems to be viewed with suspicion.

Dirks and daggers are knives that are designed more for the limited purpose of stabbing, rather than general utility. Commonly two-edged, slender and tapered.

what is real funny is that i have heard two things from current LEO in El Paso....4inches from one and palm of hand from other....

I asked whos palm mine or yours...he said his...I have huge hands...

but the written law says 5.5inches....

I hated that kind of thing when I was a cop and I hate even more now...

 

[Dokkalfar]

yep, most people I talk to say if its bigger than four fingers across, no good :/ So thats when I pull out my 5in knife and tell em its legal

As to dagger, its been pretty well described here, pointy tip and designed for stabbing, though it would really be up to the court to decide if you get charged for it. Probably pretty arguable under most other knife description, though if it is bladed on both sides thats a seperate no-go under Texas law. Although the 2nd Amendment specifically says no infringing... grr...

 

[1911Tuner]

I guess the length of the knife is an important matter to people who don't understand knives and the people who use them as weapons. The single most wicked knife man I ever knew carried a small, single-blade folder, and never used more than about an inch of the tip on several people that he cut to ribbons in less time than it takes to tell about it. Most of them never knew he was in the same 3 square feet of space with'em until they were cut.

In NC...I do believe that the knife has to be less than 4 inches OAL to enter the Federal building in downtown Winston-Salem. Not sure about the dimensions on the street, since knives aren't my thing. A Case Sod Buster Jr. has been my utility pocketknife for years.

 

[Zoogster]

BURN, a dagger is like a knife but only has a very sharp tip, it doesn't have the cutting surfaces (or, if it has them, they're not meant for cutting). It's a stabbing weapon; normally it's long and the sharp edges, if present, have very slight curve if at all, thus making it much more suitable for stabbing than cutting or slashing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagger

We are talking about the law, the law has nothing to do with the definition in English.


The same term also has a different definition in different states. A "dagger" in one state is not a "dagger" in another state.

In California a "dirk/dagger" is defined as "readily usable as a stabbing weapon" and extends well beyond knives into all sorts of items but specifically does not include some things.
So in California a 6 foot sword with a point is a "dagger/dirk", but so is a 2" screwdriver carried as a weapon.
But a folding knife can never be a dirk/dagger per exemption, unless locked into the open position. At which point it is a dirk/dagger.
Yet "daggers/dirks" can be open carried in California, it is only illegal to conceal them.

So you can open carry a broadsword, but you cannot conceal it unless you hack of the point so it cannot be a stabbing weapon.
You can carry a double sided 2 foot long folding knife with a razor sharp point concealed, but a small screwdriver in your pocket may be a felony.
A flat tipped meat cleaver is perfectly legal to conceal in California, or a flat tipped machete, but a 1" trinket fixed blade may be a felony to conceal.


The law concerning an item is statute, which can include meanings and exclude meanings that the English term itself implies.
This definition can further be made to include and exclude things that even the statute says it means or does not mean based on case law, and you only know that by reviewing the case law.
So the definition of something in law can even mean something contrary to what the statute or "law" itself says, which itself can mean something different than what the term in English means.

 

[AlaskaMan]

A blade longer than 2 1/2" can get you into some serious trouble in a federal courthouse.

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 930
§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(g) As used in this section:
(2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.

 

[shockwave]

You know, you could always make a leather sock and put about 12 oz of lead shot in it. Better than a knife for self defense.

 

[Jim K]

I think more people were killed with a box cutter than were ever killed with any dirk or dagger.

Actually, dagger and dirk are pretty well defined as weapons intended to be used for stabbing. I have little doubt my Fairbairn knife would be legitimately called a dagger.

"Dangerous weapon" can be about anything someone uses to injure or intimidate someone else. A man in Florida was charge with assault with a dangerous weapon when he stuck up a bank with an alligator (!). The same charge has been used when the weapon was a brick, a shoe, a piece of 2x4, and so on.

Jim

 

[Zoogster]

You know, you could always make a leather sock and put about 12 oz of lead shot in it. Better than a knife for self defense.

That is a felony "sap", "slungshot" or "sandbag" as defined under CA penal code.
Just as importantly it has only one purpose, that of a weapon. So it is a purpose made weapon. While a knife is a tool useful for many other purposes.

While case law defines it slightly differently in each state, such a weighted sack is a crime in many states. One could pretend it had a legitimate purpose if it was a coin purse or something else (good for keeping coins from scratching things up in your pockets). But with lead as a weight it clearly serves no real purpose except as a weapon.

Mere possession of such a weighted sack can be a felony in California, most certainly if the purpose for carrying it is as a weapon. It is often a more severe crime than illegally carrying a loaded concealed firearm.

A huge concealed folding knife (no size limit) or an open carried knife of any length is perfectly legal in California, but "daggers", "bowie knives", "swords", and folding knives over 5.5" etc are a crime in Texas.
Yet you can carry a loaded pistol, rifle or shotgun in a vehicle in Texas at any time.
A less lethal stick with a handle can be a felony (illegal felony billy California) while a lethal razor sharp sword is perfectly legal.
My point is you can never assume something is legal or illegal. A small knife can be a felony when carrying a gun is perfectly legal. Or vice versa.

 

[SHvar]

Some laws make no sense, but as mentioned something as legal as carrying 2 bars of soap, or a few pool balls in a tube sock is not a weapon unless it is viewed as one by a cop whos confronted you on the streets.
A length of pipe, a fitting, a nail, a hammer, and a 12 gauge shotgun shell are not weapons but combined together and you have what was commonly used in the old Soviet Union for hunting.
A pen or pencil is not by law a weapon unless you use it as such. Interpretation, and intent can change byt the minute.