What is an armor piercing bullet?

[AR-Bossman]

Does anyone know 100% what constitutes an AP bullet? It just popped up in the news and I'm finding alot of weird info.

Is it a solid copper bullet? A bullet with a core like the M855?

I mean as a reloader, as far as I know, I can't just order up some AP bullets to load. I don't even know if it's legal to posses them if I could.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

AP rifle ammo is legal but AP handgun ammo is not. In some states tracer ammo is not legal because of fire hazards.

AP ammo usually contains a steel core and some have a steel "perpetrator" tip.

 

[Bbear]

Well, let's see, you have basically 4 types of bullets;
FMJ or Full Metal Jacket - lead core covered in a gilding metal such as copper
Steel Core - pretty much the same as FMJ but with a small sliver of steel inside the lead core. Designed to penetrate some, if not most, body armor.
AP or Armor peircing - generally has a steel or other harder metal 'cap' over the lead core and constituting the 'point' of the bullet. Designed to penetrate steel plate of some sort.
Open point (hunting-type) bullets - lead core with a copper or other gilding metal surrounding all but the tip/point of the bullet. The thickness of the gilding metal varies from front to rear of the bullet to help the bullet retain weight as it passes through the game animal or target media.

There are variations
http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2015/03/m855-ss109-cross-section-of-projectiles.html

 

[rg1]

The laws covering AP ammo and making AP ammo is fuzzy!! Here's what you usually get directed to for clarification but you may need to be a lawyer or ATF agent to understand it: http://yarchive.net/gun/politics/armorpiercing.html
The M855 62 FMJ with a small penetrator is not considered AP. The whole situation which has not been cleared up is the fact that many pistols have been manufactured in rifle calibers. No AP legal in pistols. My confusion is if you have for instance a .308 caliber bolt action pistol, short less than 16" barrel, and possess AP ammo does that mean you are violating the law? Also, manufacturing AP ammo?? By manufacturing AP ammo it means you can not make a AP bullet. Doesn't mean you can't buy AP surplus bullets and load them and shoot them yourself. It's just confusing enough that scares you that you could be charged for something if they want.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Full metal jacketed bullets aren't considered armor piercing, nor are those with a small "penetrator", such as .223/5.56. Soft point bullets also aren't considered armor piercing, nor are solid copper bullets that have a method to expand, such as skiving and hollowpoints.

A true armor piercing bullet consists of a copper or cupro-nickel jacket, a hardened steel core that takes up most of the inside of the jacket, and a small amount of lead to fill in the gaps between the jacket and core, and provide a cushion between the jacket and steel core. Most armor piercing bullets are made for rifles, but there have been rounds made for handguns, but those were mostly back in the 1930's and were referred to as "metal piercing" for shooting through car doors, etc. Those consisted of either a pointed steel cap over a lead core that also had a lead bearing surface, or of a solid zinc bullet that was of a round nose design. I've had both in my possession over the years.

U.S. Military armor piercing bullets will generally have a black tip. The nose of the bullet is dipped in black lacquer to show what the bullet is, but there are other colors used, too. Some will designate AP/Incendiary, tracer, etc.

There's more information about it, but these are the highlights.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[AR-Bossman]

Here's why I asked the question. It veers into politics and reloading. But it's deadly serious.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...ho-sold-ammo-vegas-shooter-charged/302831002/

 

[FROGO207]

Fred has you covered. The sticky points are the higher percentages of hardened steel/Tungsten/Bismuth/etc. core to the other parts of the projectile. I once took the time to look up the whole mess but that was more than a few years ago and my memory fades a bit on this. What I am remembering is if you have some AP rifle ammo for a collection IF you are a bona fied collector then it is OK to possess samples, but assembling AP ammo is not. Not sure about 50 cal projectiles though (50 BMG API and such).

ETA I am watching this with interest as well. How much does the reporter know about the subject he is reporting on anyway? The law states that if you are in the business of manufacturing ammo then you need a FFL license and the ATF sets guidelines as to restrictions but the manufacturer SHOULD make it his business know what is legal to make or not.

 

[Blue68f100]

My case of LC 855 Green Tip (5.56) says light armor piercing on the box ?????? But it is not on all of the labeling. I bought these for the brass and the price was right too. I can confirm that they will go through 1/4+ of mild steel tubing at 100 yrds. The accuracy on these was very disappointing, to say the least in any of my guns.

 

[Walkalong]

Here's why I asked the question. It veers into politics

Let's stay out of the politics part, just the definition of, what they are made of, and the legal questions.

 

[H&R Glock]

All G.I. type 50BMG ball bullets manufactured in the U.S. have a steel penetrator. 50 ball is not considered to be AP, but it does the job on mild steel. The 50 cal AP bullets have a hardened steel or TC penetrator.
Sporting or target bullets (usually costing $1 to $5 each) might be jacketed lead or solid copper or brass also fully capable of defeating some steel plates.

 

[ReloaderFred]

All G.I. type 50BMG ball bullets manufactured in the U.S. have a steel penetrator. 50 ball is not considered to be AP, but it does the job on mild steel. The 50 cal AP bullets have a hardened steel or TC penetrator.

That may be true today, but I haven't checked to verify. In the past, .50 BMG ball rounds were cup and core bullets, with no steel insert. We used to prowl the old gunnery ranges in the desert and collect both projectiles and expended casings. I've still got steel cores from AP rounds that I picked up, and some that I removed from intact projectiles. They make great center punches. The ball rounds didn't have a steel core, just lead, but most of these rounds were fired in practice during World War II. Where I live now, the ocean dunes were also used for gunnery practice during the war, and after a windstorm, I've picked up expended cases and projectiles out of the sand. Most of the cases were dated 1943 and 1944......

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[CapnMac]

Yes, as above, legally, in the US, AP is whatever ATFE says it is, subject to change.

A pedantic definition would be any round containing a hardened core of 1x15 to 1x18 proportions. This has to do with the physics of penetrating hardened metallic and composite surfaces.

Sadly, this nice neat, supportable by science definition, is muddied by indiscriminately lumping "body armor" into legal presumption. Penetrating "soft" body armor is rather a different proposition. The average .30-30 will penetrate rather a lot of body armor.

Equally sadly, the Fourth Estate is more than willing to throw both connotation and denotation to the winds in its purile descriptions of various ammunitions (any of which might be refuted by a single wiki search). "Lurid" describes all too much of information provided by what we are forced to call "modern" press.

 

[Dudedog]

One example



9mm Slovakian THV armor-piercing (soft armor) clearly designed to be AP

Now what is really AP and what might be determined to be AP can be two different things.

Real AP is designed to be AP. Bullet shape and material, tungsten/steel core etc.

This is AP as are some other Military ammo 30-06 M2 etc.
http://guns.wikia.com/wiki/Raufoss_Mk_211
(they threw in everything but the kitchen sink!)

 

[H&R Glock]

Well, Fred.. I should have said "all G.I. ball rounds manufactured in the U.S. TODAY, have a penetrator." What might have been fired way back when is something else. I have been reloading 50 for 6 years with various GI pulls..

 

[Zaydok Allen]

So despite a lack of a design intended to expand, a solid copper round such as the Lehigh Penetrators are perfectly legal to load for handgun usage.

Correct?

 

[jmorris]

All G.I. type 50BMG ball bullets manufactured in the U.S. have a steel penetrator. 50 ball is not considered to be AP, but it does the job on mild steel.

Not in my experience, 50 BMG ball with get stuck in 1” plate steel where AP and API will poke right through and keep on going.

To sell non AP reloaded ammunition you have to have the proper license, to sell AP ammunition you have to have the proper license.

Seems as though this guy didn’t have the proper license.
https://www.scribd.com/document/370...ft500noi&source=impactradius&medium=affiliate

 

[Offfhand]

Perhaps to further clarify the definitions of AP bullets: Here is a quick photo of a .30 cal. AP bullet with identifying black tip, and a removed core. These cores are VERY hard and I've removed them for other uses such as center punches and for the "feet" on benchrest pedestals to anchor in concrete shooting benches.

 

[Walkalong]

These cores are VERY hard and I've removed them for other uses such as center punches and for the "feet" on benchrest pedestals to anchor in concrete

My old Bald Eagle rest had this done to it prior to my buying it used. I made the box.

 

[Offfhand]

My old Bald Eagle rest had this done to it prior to my buying it used. I made the box.
View attachment 777250

We may be getting off the subject a bit, but following up on Mr. Walkalong's post, this photo shows how a .30 cal. AP core has been used as concrete anchoring feet in the legs of a benchrest pedestal. The knobs and lock collar are a bit overdone, but only because I enjoy tinkering with my lathe. Otherwise it's simple project. Perhaps this should be transferred to a DIY thread...

 

[mdi]

If you saw the term "armor piercing bullet" on the news, just change channels. Ninety-nine point nine of any/every "report" I've heard or read from our media, dealing with anything concerning guns is wrong, distorted, made up BS...

The fellers have given a good amount of accurate info above. When I was shooting in CA at an outdoor range the RO quite often checked shooters' ammo with a magnet, looking for steel bullets (or steel core) because of sparking causing brush fires...

 

[KeyboardCommando]

An Armor piercing round is one with a steel core, not a lead core. This core will puncture material that a lead core will shatter on, this is why it is called an 'Armor piercing' round.
There are also other types of rounds that do this, such as incendiary or even HE rounds.

P.S. due to the nature of the core of these rounds, they are not designed for accuracy -- they are not marksman rounds. They are designed for heavy automatic fire on a target, usually with tracer rounds to help you aim.

 

[JeffG]

Other than licencing and legality, there really is no need for AP. Many sporting rounds "as is" will penetrate a plethora of media. This is .243 Winchester, a handload with 87gr Hornady Vmax on 3/8 cold rolled steel at 200 yards.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/155110433@N07/39409958114/in/dateposted-public/

 

[Officers'Wife]

Since this question interests me let me make sure I understand the answers correctly... And "armor piercing" round has a hard metal core surrounded by lead in a copper jacket with a hard metal point.

(Unless ATF decides otherwise. )

 

[RecoilRob]

Most AP rifle ammo that I've seen have the hardened penetrator core with only enough lead over it to give the soft metal outer cover (can be gilding metal or copper washed mild steel) a place to go when engraved by the rifling. Most don't have or need anything special on the tip. The M855 has a steel cap in the end to help it penetrate better but lacks the hardened core of true AP.

The 'Mythbusters' really screwed up a lot of people every time they did any shooting because they always called FMJ 'armor piercing'. Especially egregious was their episode where they tried to test whether the opening scene in 'Saving Pt Ryan' where the Normandy landing showed bullets zipping through the water and injuring guys. They ended up declaring that you are perfectly safe in 3ft of water from 50 BMG!! Oh my. But they used FMJ with lead core and hitting water up close at about a 45 degree angle just shattered it into bits. Real AP (or even Military Ball with mild steel core) would have gone deep into the pool even if it shed the outer cover. I've shot golf balls in 10ft of water...at an angle so the bullet had to actually penetrate probably 15ft of water with a 50 and M33 Ball. AP would have done even better.

 

[Klint Beastwood]

.50 bmg toungstan carbide core penetrator.
The point is have the potential to penetrate around 30mm of armor. Though that depends how far you are away in all honesty.