What is going on with guns
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InTheSwamp
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Mosin77
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There’s a thought that new ATF regulations will essentially make private sales illegal thanks to their interpretation of certain provisions of the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act.
We realistically may not know until a few months after they become official what the “reality on the ground” is. They’re certainly not declaring that this is their intention….. but most of us don’t trust the ATF farther than we can throw them, so, jury is still out.
We realistically may not know until a few months after they become official what the “reality on the ground” is. They’re certainly not declaring that this is their intention….. but most of us don’t trust the ATF farther than we can throw them, so, jury is still out.
WestKentucky
Member
So far all i have heard is grumbling about if selling a privately owned gun makes you fit the bill of “in the business of selling”. I fully expect a universal background check law to take effect at some point, but I would hope that they do it above the table instead of sneakily changing interpretation thereby making a large chunk of the populace criminals.
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
[politics]
You think an administration that sneakily redefines sex in Title IX legislation is going to be above board in interpreting firearms regulation? Heck with my rifle ... let me sell you a bridge!
[/politics]
You think an administration that sneakily redefines sex in Title IX legislation is going to be above board in interpreting firearms regulation? Heck with my rifle ... let me sell you a bridge!
[/politics]
Howland937
Member
If anyone thinks this is more about guns than is about $, I've got another bridge they can buy.
At best, it's a 2 birds/one stone.
Ignition Override
Member
The supposedly new “law” will Not even Apply…for a few more months.
Despite pages of vague wording, an Exception Seems to Allow you to sell guns from a private collection, or you can also sell the entire collection—-without needing to be an FFL.
I read this paragraph, but not the entire publication from the Apparatchiks.
There Won’t be a million X-Files agents able to spare somebody to watch people sell a gun in the Camping World parking lot …..they want to know who sells dozens of guns to “suspected” Criminals ….
The political “points” were scored with the ignoramus public when this was announced- with no public awareness of what actually will be defined.
Despite pages of vague wording, an Exception Seems to Allow you to sell guns from a private collection, or you can also sell the entire collection—-without needing to be an FFL.
I read this paragraph, but not the entire publication from the Apparatchiks.
There Won’t be a million X-Files agents able to spare somebody to watch people sell a gun in the Camping World parking lot …..they want to know who sells dozens of guns to “suspected” Criminals ….
The political “points” were scored with the ignoramus public when this was announced- with no public awareness of what actually will be defined.
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Elkins45
Member
There are people whom I presume are otherwise intelligent asserting that even selling a gun thru an FFL makes you an unlicensed dealer. At least two of these people claim to be lawyers. On barfcom I was accused of being an ATF mole because I pushed back on this interpretation.
Sometimes gun people are our own worst enemies.
Sometimes gun people are our own worst enemies.
Ignition Override
Member
Elkins45:
Plenty of US gun owners seem to be afraid of their own shadows.
They already seem to have capitulated in the psychological “war”.
88 million gun owners, with so many now apparently afraid to sell a few personal guns- and usually without any profit.
The vast majority of private sellers aren’t “high-profile”, therefore why would the ATF be Aware of a routine transaction (10s of Thousands per day..) or Care about a “drop” in the wide river?
Plenty of US gun owners seem to be afraid of their own shadows.
They already seem to have capitulated in the psychological “war”.
88 million gun owners, with so many now apparently afraid to sell a few personal guns- and usually without any profit.
The vast majority of private sellers aren’t “high-profile”, therefore why would the ATF be Aware of a routine transaction (10s of Thousands per day..) or Care about a “drop” in the wide river?
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unclenunzie
Contributing Member
Private sales of firearms - meaning person to person by two persons residing in the same state fall under state law (setting aside federal disqualifications). Federal gov't (ATF, etc) would not have authority to regulate intrastate firearms sales that is otherwise lawful. Just my non-lawyer opinion.
SunnySlopes
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I thought that's the way it's done! I've always done my part for the economy, viz. buy high and sell low!
There are people out there who make money by sounding alarms, so they sound many alarms. There are people who try to consolidate their control of things by giving assurances about things they don't understand. It is human nature to want reliable answers, but we don't have reliable answers to the way these rules will be enforced.
We want to exchange information of mutual interest, but nobody can guarantee where this rule change will take us. Beware of internet gurus bearing dire prophesies and glib assurances. When in doubt, consult the actual language of the rules or laws, as provided in #2 above. Original poster got the information he was seeking, but this thread can stay open for further information if folks can add useful information rather than venting and blaming.
We want to exchange information of mutual interest, but nobody can guarantee where this rule change will take us. Beware of internet gurus bearing dire prophesies and glib assurances. When in doubt, consult the actual language of the rules or laws, as provided in #2 above. Original poster got the information he was seeking, but this thread can stay open for further information if folks can add useful information rather than venting and blaming.
luv2safari
Member
People had better look beyond what this list purports. In my State, Nevada, private sales of firearms MUST be logged and undergo background checks, except for transfers to close family members and step-children, uncles and aunts. Refer and scroll up to NRS 202.2548 and NRS 202.25747.
The list indicates that no background check is necessary...WRONG!
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Buzznrose
Member
Got any for sale at the moment?
Elkins45
Member
It’s worth eceryone’s time to read it directly from the source.
JeffG
Member
Wait for the court case striking it down. Be patient.
lionking
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I read through it and seems ambiguous on purpose. We all know that the current administration is one of the most anti-gun ownership administrations ever and like most political legislation and rulings these days they make it complex and keep the devil in the details on purpose and while the document reads that a person can sell off a portion or complete private collection and not be considered a dealer, the document then later states Q – If I only dedicate a few hours to selling firearms to predominantly earn a profit, am Iconsidered a “dealer”?A – Yes. The term includes any person who engages in such business or occupation on a parttime basis. Well even a average guy with 20 or so (whatever multiple number) of firearms decides to sell off his collection it takes time and effort to do so and of course said person will want to realize a profit. If a guy bought 10 M1 rifles from the CMP 15 years ago for $700 a piece and is now selling them for double or more that is time, effort and for profit and the ATF could construe that as being a "dealer" the way I read it.
It states Individuals may continue to make intrastate private sales without a license provided theydo not rise to the level of being “engaged in the business,” and the transactions are otherwisecompliant with law. Seems wishy washy to me on purpose.
Given the state of everything right now I have no trust on any of it and them.
Savage30L
Member
Yep. Congress makes laws, not the ATF. The populace are fed up with unelected bureaucrats proclaiming "laws".
Ignition Override
Member
So be it. Lawyer-speak.
If I decide to sell a personal gun, once a year, in a parking lot or at a gun club, I’m not gonna let such election year publicity/pandering by
desperate
Broccoli Joe’s Handlers stop me.
Most people will do as they always have done. Why spend time thinking too much…
And the recent large. gun show at Ft. Worth seemed normal.
There are roughly 88 million US gun owners. Ponder how many personal sales take place every minute of every day. 
If I decide to sell a personal gun, once a year, in a parking lot or at a gun club, I’m not gonna let such election year publicity/pandering by
desperate
Broccoli Joe’s Handlers stop me.Most people will do as they always have done. Why spend time thinking too much…
And the recent large. gun show at Ft. Worth seemed normal.
There are roughly 88 million US gun owners. Ponder how many personal sales take place every minute of every day.
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HowardC
Member
One cannot rely on forums and internet lawyers. Go to the source. Every state has internet access to its statutes. In Colorado, they're called Colorado Revised Statutes or CRS. In addition, each legislative session publishes its activities each year during the session. With a little investigation, current legislation can be followed, and final laws accessed online. Gun laws are often in criminal codes, or safety sections.
The real kicker is that such regulations are often difficult to wade through. Such research requires close reading, with frequent cross checking and referring to other sections of laws. So, reading regulations becomes an art in itself.
At the federal level, all US regulations are codified in the Code of Federal Regulations, or CFR. There are 50 Titles, each covering an aspect of government function. For example, title 49 covers transportation, title 27 covers the ATF. Title 29 covers labor. For quick access, go to "eCFR".
Congress (House and Senate) passes or enacts laws. They have myriad names and often contain wholly unrelated topics. But that's another issue. These are codified in the UNITED STATES CODE. These are the actual laws passed by Congress. These laws are in turn assigned/given to an agency, such as the EPA, DOT, or ATF. These agencies in turn create regulations to carry out the more general actions or conditions specified in the congressional laws. Hence, most of the detailed rules/regs we have to abide by are not generated by elected officials but written by bureaucratic employees who are humans, subject to the vagaries of human thinking /reasoning and often biased. These agency derived regulations are codified in the above-described CFR.
Upshot is, to really know the actual law, you need to go to the true source. Online forums, specialized group advice, commercial or legal sites may or may not be well constructed, updated, or interpreted.
Apologies for the civics lesson. -West out
The real kicker is that such regulations are often difficult to wade through. Such research requires close reading, with frequent cross checking and referring to other sections of laws. So, reading regulations becomes an art in itself.
At the federal level, all US regulations are codified in the Code of Federal Regulations, or CFR. There are 50 Titles, each covering an aspect of government function. For example, title 49 covers transportation, title 27 covers the ATF. Title 29 covers labor. For quick access, go to "eCFR".
Congress (House and Senate) passes or enacts laws. They have myriad names and often contain wholly unrelated topics. But that's another issue. These are codified in the UNITED STATES CODE. These are the actual laws passed by Congress. These laws are in turn assigned/given to an agency, such as the EPA, DOT, or ATF. These agencies in turn create regulations to carry out the more general actions or conditions specified in the congressional laws. Hence, most of the detailed rules/regs we have to abide by are not generated by elected officials but written by bureaucratic employees who are humans, subject to the vagaries of human thinking /reasoning and often biased. These agency derived regulations are codified in the above-described CFR.
Upshot is, to really know the actual law, you need to go to the true source. Online forums, specialized group advice, commercial or legal sites may or may not be well constructed, updated, or interpreted.
Apologies for the civics lesson. -West out
AlexanderA
Member
Yes. When all is said and done, this is not an earth-shaking change. Gun owners typically like to panic at things like this.
There are lawsuits challenging the "making of laws" by the ATF. The basic problem is, the Administration is implementing an agenda not authorized by Congress through law. Instead, the Biden administration is fantasizing what about the meaning of clauses in the law, and claiming things that are not there. Typical liberal "I say so therefore, it must be so" This is actually a real problem, as bureaucrats constantly invent new ways to control the population. There is a real virtue industrial complex, for example. They are going to make you into the person they want you to be, and they do it by mangling the meanings of existing law, to fit their agenda.
Really makes me wonder who needs Congress? If Congress is going to let the Executive Branch make up law, then who needs Congress? Let just get rid of the Congressional branch and go right to Biden the KIng.
Really makes me wonder who needs Congress? If Congress is going to let the Executive Branch make up law, then who needs Congress? Let just get rid of the Congressional branch and go right to Biden the KIng.
Mostly Lead
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More curious, where did you hear this that would cause you to give it enough credibility to post here? A site that literally has three (handguns, long guns, black powder) active sections for facilitating the private sales of firearms?
Suggest you flag that source as "unreliable"...
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