What is the #1 rule of a gunfight?

[Lycidas Janwor]

I think about this one from time to time. I see people quoting the "#1 rule of a gunfight" frequently, and more often than not I don't agree with their #1 rule.

The truth might be that the "#1 rule" varies depending on the specific circumstance you find yourself in, as I can easily think of possibilities...often actual examples from other people that have already happened...to invalidate each of these responses as being "the" answer.

I still think it's an interesting poll and could generate some good discussion.



Poll results are public.

Please post up what you voted IF your vote differed from the rule that first came to mind when you saw the thread title but had not yet read the options (and what your initial thought was)

I voted for "don't be there" as I'd rather watch a gun fight on TV than actually be in one. But if I never had a choice and I do get in a gun fight then my second choice is "have a gun."

My third choice would be "don't panic, use your training, keep your wits about you."

 

[Lycidas Janwor]

For those who say "don't be there" is not a valid option are missing a huge point about the OP's poll: judgement and commen sense. In other words, don't go looking for a gun fight, don't be in an area or place that can possibly explode into a gunfight.

It's absolutely a valid choice. It's called using good judgement.

If I'm in a situation that looks like it's dangerous or there's too much testosterone and alcohol in the room or in the stadium or in whatever public place I'm at, and I'm carrying a pistol, I'm not going to hang around to "see what happens", I'm going to excuse myself from the area.

edit: I think Adam Zimmerman should have used the "don't be there" option, no?

 

[50 Shooter]

But the OP's question is #1 rule of a gun fight! So this would mean that you're already in a gun fight and don't be there can't be an answer technically.

People that think there can't be any rules have already lost, are you seriously thinking about CYA in a gun fight or living?

Zimmerman was/is an idiot, he went looking, got his ass handed to him by an innocent person and to save himself, killed a kid that was just walking through a neighborhood. He should have listened to the cops and stayed away from him and let the cops handle it. Now that would have been an example of "don't be there"!!!

 

[Fiv3r]

All of the above.

I'm a huge believer in don't be there/situational awareness. Short of something happening like they just experienced in France, I earnestly try to limit my exposure to places that have a higher probability of a threat. I don't do bars. The closest thing is dinner at the local tavern around 5pm. I don't go downtown after dark. My friend set is small and stable. I don't have any wild and wooly idiots that could get me into trouble, just simple quiet family men who prefer BBQs with the wife and kids.

That said, situational awareness is the shield you should always carry. Watch for eyes on you, read the scene, develop a barometer for escalating trouble. If your Spidey sense starts to tingle, move out. As a husband and father of a young daughter, my head is always on a swivel looking for people who think they are hiding something. I cannot guaranty that I will be fastest on the draw. I cannot guaranty that I will when the fight. All I can do is do my best to keep my loved ones from harm by first and foremost not putting them in that situation and THEN making sure that I have a way to protect them if we are cornered into action.

Also, don't be a soft target. Don't look distracted, don't walk around screwing around on your phone with your eyes down, and don't slouch. Most violence is of the smash and grab variety. A thug is more likely to brain you and steal your precious iphone if you give him an opportunity. Keep your eyes up and meet them with anyone engaging you.

On the flip side, don't look like you are looking for trouble lest you find it. You never know who has a chip on their shoulder looking to knock the block off someone that looks like he is asking for it. Be friendly and be polite, but try to come across as someone who would never start trouble but would be willing to finish if need be.

I'm a fairly athletic 5'10 190#. I wear plain reasonable clothes. Tee shirts, jeans, and work boots. My watch costs less than $40, and short of my simple gold/titanium wedding ring it's the most lavish piece of jewelry that I wear. I don't come across as the easiest of targets that would be worth the effort.

It won't solve every potential issue, but it doesn't hurt to just avoid inviting trouble.

 

[Lycidas Janwor]

But the OP's question is #1 rule of a gun fight! So this would mean that you're already in a gun fight and don't be there can't be an answer technically.

People that think there can't be any rules have already lost, are you seriously thinking about CYA in a gun fight or living?

Zimmerman was/is an idiot, he went looking, got his ass handed to him by an innocent person and to save himself, killed a kid that was just walking through a neighborhood. He should have listened to the cops and stayed away from him and let the cops handle it. Now that would have been an example of "don't be there"!!!

I understand the question but that does not exclude the possibility of not being there. As for Zimmerman, thanks for making my point even more valid. Zimmerman didn't have to be there.

There are reasons for a gunfight, right? Unless you are in a paintball competition, you probably never intended to be there, at least I hope you don't want to be there. As other posters have cogently pointed out, there are things like situational awareness and commen sense. You have choices and those choices have consequences. Choosing to avoid bad situations is key to avoiding violence.

JMHO, peace!

 

[Tommygunn]

But the OP's question is #1 rule of a gun fight! So this would mean that you're already in a gun fight and don't be there can't be an answer technically.

People that think there can't be any rules have already lost, are you seriously thinking about CYA in a gun fight or living?

Zimmerman was/is an idiot, he went looking, got his ass handed to him by an innocent person and to save himself, killed a kid that was just walking through a neighborhood. He should have listened to the cops and stayed away from him and let the cops handle it. Now that would have been an example of "don't be there"!!!

:banghead:

While I do not wish to claim Zimmerman is or was an angel, or unnecessarily defend him (usually I keep quiet and let others debate what they don't know) I take exception to your characterization of Trayvon Martin. He was NOT just "a kid that was just walking through a neighborhood," he was beating Zimmerman's head against the edge of a cement walkway, beating him, had discovered his gun and stated that Zimmerman was going to die. This is very different than just innocently "walking through a neighborhood." This, atleast IMHO, constitutes cause for self defense, and a jury after hearing the facts (as opposed to, say, what the idiot Main Stream News shows broadcast) found him not guilty.
Did Zimmerman do things wrong. Yes. Not as much as many detractors claim. He should not have left his car, but only did so because he wrongly believed the 911 operator wanted him to locate TM. Upon being told he shouldn't do that he was returning to the car when TM interdicted him.
Atleast that is the storyline as I understand it based on what filtered out.
You may believe another timeline.
I fully respect the opinion of others .... .you're entitled to your belief, but I cannot accept the characterization of TM as some innocent who was beset by a gun wielding Zimmerman. And apparently the jury was more inline with my thinking, than yours ....

 

[Old Dog]

And I still think that by the way the OP phrased his question, you have already found yourself in a gunfight, and you have a gun. What then? If you can opt out, travel back in time and not end up being there, it's not a gunfight ... If you can avoid going to a gunfight ... Really? How does when know where or when their gunfight will occur?

I know people who've walked into gunfights at their own neighborhood convenience store; folks who've fought back with guns after their homes (in good neighborhoods) have been invaded by armed bad guys; people who've been shot at in restaurants, shopping malls ...

Don't be there isn't an option. Bad people with guns and bad intentions pop up regularly in nice places around good people. Do we all just hole up in our bunkers and shop online while getting all our food delivered?

I still maintain the only rule is maintain the mindset necessary to use your chosen weapon to defend yourself. Everything else becomes secondary (although training and practice is really good, too, of course).

For the record, there are NO winners in a gunfight. Survivors, perhaps, but no winners. There might be winners at the range during your local IDPA match, but not on the street. Ever ask the guy who's prevailed in a deadly force encounter if he felt as though he won something? If you've taken a human life, you know. If you've been through the legal fallout (even as a law enforcement officer) subsequent to a shooting, you know.

.

 

[Elkins45]

I sort of think "don't be there" is the truly correct answer, but if you aren't there then it really wasn't a gunfight. That's why I voted for "have a gun."

 

[wally]

I voted 'don't be there'.

* If you aren't getting paid to be there (cop or solder) and carry a gun?
Don't be there!

* In general, nothing good happens after midnight.
Don't be there!

* Nothing good happens in bars after 10:00 or so.
Don't be there!

* Nothing good happens (very long) in another mans bed.
Don't be there.

Follow those simple rules, and you very likely won't get in a gunfight in your lifetime.

I wish!
You won't have a choice if they choose your home to invade, or your car to jack!

 

[Warp]

I wish!
You won't have a choice if they choose your home to invade, or your car to jack!

The point being (and it's been mentioned several times in this thread) a person can do a lot to reduce their odds of being in a situation where having or discharging a firearm is useful/necessary/justified.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

The number one rule of a gunfight is:

1. Situational Awareness just failed you.


Other than that...there are so many extenuating factors that can be considered which can drastically alter anyone's particular choice for a "number one rule".

 

[Warp]

The number one rule of a gunfight is:

1. Situational Awareness just failed you.

Sometimes it is simply impossible to avoid. Crap happens.

You can take a lot of steps to reduce the odds, but you can never make them 0.

Kind of like, for most of us, we cannot always have a gun.

 

[Aragon]

The first rule of a gunflight is to do everything in one's power to avoid a gunfight -- therefore, don't be there.

If there was actually a choice at the beginning of one's day to either gear-up OR avoid a situation/location that would substantially increase the probability of getting into a gunfight, the latter would always be #1.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Sometimes it is simply impossible to avoid. Crap happens.

You can take a lot of steps to reduce the odds, but you can never make them 0.

Kind of like, for most of us, we cannot always have a gun.

Absolutely!

And there you have it! An extenuating factor that can be considered which drastically altered the choice for a "number one rule".

 

[leadcounsel]

And I still think that by the way the OP phrased his question, you have already found yourself in a gunfight, and you have a gun. What then? If you can opt out, travel back in time and not end up being there, it's not a gunfight ... If you can avoid going to a gunfight ... Really? How does when know where or when their gunfight will occur?

I know people who've walked into gunfights at their own neighborhood convenience store; folks who've fought back with guns after their homes (in good neighborhoods) have been invaded by armed bad guys; people who've been shot at in restaurants, shopping malls ...

Don't be there isn't an option. Bad people with guns and bad intentions pop up regularly in nice places around good people. Do we all just hole up in our bunkers and shop online while getting all our food delivered?

I still maintain the only rule is maintain the mindset necessary to use your chosen weapon to defend yourself. Everything else becomes secondary (although training and practice is really good, too, of course).

For the record, there are NO winners in a gunfight. Survivors, perhaps, but no winners. There might be winners at the range during your local IDPA match, but not on the street. Ever ask the guy who's prevailed in a deadly force encounter if he felt as though he won something? If you've taken a human life, you know. If you've been through the legal fallout (even as a law enforcement officer) subsequent to a shooting, you know.

.

Totally agree. "Don't be there" demonstrates 1) a poor understanding of a 24/7/365 dynamic 360 threat, and 2) a naive understanding of the world, and 3) susceptibility to denial and losing initiative and the wrong mindset.

There is no safe zone folks. Nobody in their right mind goes someplace thinking, "gee, I hope this is a super violent night where I get into a gunfight."

Want examples?

Personal examples, I've felt the fear of near robbery or assault doing nothing more than walking on a public street or driving on a public road.

Ever take your family to the movies, settling in to a nice film you've been wanting to see? See a guy come into the theater with a shotgun and AR15 and the wrong mindset may think "oh, this is part of the film debut..." Many of those Aurora survivors were in shock and disbelief, demonstrating the wrong mindset. They didn't have the option of "not being there in the middle of a gun fight."

How about taking your kids to Chucky Cheese for a fun meal and games? What could possibly go wrong? Well, in 1993 a gunman stormed in and shot 5, killing 4 people. http://abcnews.go.com/US/auroras-massacre-victims-20-year-wait-justice/story?id=16847013

How about the mall, various restaurants, filling up for gas at a gas station, etc. Foreign locations where there are "no guns." States or cities or otherwise "gun free" zones.
The news is filled daily with normal people doing normal things where there is an armed person demanding your money or more from you, or simply trying to execute you for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Even on "safe" military bases abroad, were we walked around with no magazine in our weapons by order, our enemies repeatedly infiltrated and killed a few before being killed.

Think you're safe at home? Home invasions are a reality. A famous example was in CT a few years ago where armed convicts snuck in and beat the father to near death, and raped and murdered/burned alive the mom and 2 daughters.

There simply is no "don't be there" option. And having that mindset in my view is dangerous because you waste time processing "this can't be happening in this safe restaurant" when you should be going into the mode to regain initiative - using everything you can for tactical advantage.

 

[AKElroy]

I voted "No Rules"; if the gun I bring runs dry, jams, or gets taken, then all bets are off. Eye-gouging, nose-biting, groin twisting antics will now ensue.

 

[TrickyDick]

If I'm there already in a gunfight, #1 rule is to WIN. Disregard all other rules.

 

[jamesjames]

Have a gun

Sure, its a punchline to a joke. But if you don't have a gun, then someone is simply attacking you with a gun and you are defending yourself with your wits. With a gun you have the power to defend yourself and win, if the shooting starts.

You also have the power to diffuse the situation, or to at least let the aggressor/predator know that you are self-possessed and, while you might be feeling adrenaline, you are not fearful in the same way that a helpless victim is afraid. The predator can sense the fear of a victim and feed off of it. He's attracted to the fear. But if you are empowered with the ability to defend yourself and bring the fight to him, well, he can smell that too. That empowerment, that lack of fear, is often enough to de-escalate the confrontation.

You are also empowered to eat a mile of <deleted>. You can apologize profusely, be gracious and offer to buy him a drink, or you can back away gracefully. When you are not cowering in you boots you have all the cards and have a greater sense of control over what happens.

If he's a predator and doesn't smell or see the signs of the fear on you, he may very well become fearful and disengage. Maybe having the gun and knowing how to use it, and when not to use it gives you the confidence you need to prevail.

So what do you need to possess to win a gunfight? A gun? Confidence? Having both wouldn't hurt. I can't say that having a gun will automatically give you confidence. Only practice, experience, and wisdom with guns can do that. Sometimes men have confidence and self-possession as their only weapon, and they prevail.

If I were in a gun fight, I know I would want both. Use the confidence in every way you can. Use the gun only in the gravest extreme. And when its all over...take the cannoli.

 

[herkyguy]

Bring a rifle and stay out of pistol range......?

Other than that it's gonna be a scramble.

 

[X-Rap]

Just saying don't be there is like saying don't be on the highway when some drunk crosses the center line, when it happens you can only do what you can in those few split seconds.
As for a gunfight, be mentally, physically, and materially prepared to kill every threat in the room so you can be the one to walk out.

 

[Swing]

Don't be there

^ If this is a viable choice, then it is a no brainer. The is a reason some of us try to live in a decent area, don't break the law or hang with scuzzbags who do, don't look for a fight, don't get intoxicated, or otherwise make stupid-ass decisions that will increase the odds of bad things going down, including having to use lethal force. Sure, trouble can come looking for you, but the odds of said can be reduced by the proper application of one's wetware.

Beyond that, yah, having a gun in a situation requiring said makes sense.

 

[Warp]

Just saying don't be there is like saying don't be on the highway when some drunk crosses the center line,

Not being on the highway after midnight, or after 11pm, can help with that.

Not being on the highway, especially at night or early morning, on heavy drinking holidays (New Year's, St Patrick's day, after the Superbowl, etc), can also help with that.

As discussed earlier in this thread, one can take steps to better the odds.

when it happens you can only do what you can in those few split seconds.

This is true.

As for a gunfight, be mentally, physically, and materially prepared to kill every threat in the room so you can be the one to walk out.

Small tweak: Stop every threat (assuming you cannot avoid completely or deescalate)

 

[Hypnogator]

The Rules of Combat Gunfighting

Rule 1: Have a gun. It's always better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. A .22 in your pocket will stop an opponent a lot faster than a .44 Magnum out in the car.

Rule 2: There is no second place winner. Sometimes even first place is decided posthumously. This isn't a game. Survival is all that counts.

Rule 3: When in doubt, whip it out. Only a fool or a desperate opponent will try to outdraw a trigger-pull. Unfortunately, the world is full of both. See Rule 6.

Rule 4: A half-second is a lifetime. That's about how long you have to react to your opponent drawing a gun. If you want to live longer than that, apply Rule 5. Quickly.

Rule 5: If you can hit your opponent, your opponent can hit you. Get behind something solid. Stay there.

Rule 6: It's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. Shoot without hesitation if you believe your life is in danger. A gun is a weapon, not a magic wand that will paralyze your opponents with fear or make them reasonable. If you aren't prepared to kill to defend yourself, don't carry a gun.

Rule 7: Shoot to stop; shoot until it stops. A hit in the lower abdomen is the best way to disrupt your opponent's attack, but remember, one-shot stopping power is a myth. Keep shooting until your opponent is no longer an imminent threat.

Rule 8: Reload at every opportunity, even if you fire only one or two rounds. Count your shots. Always know how many rounds you have left. Don't let the next-to-the-last thing you hear be, "Click!"

Rule 9: If facing multiple opponents, eliminate the major threat first. Take out the best situated or most heavily armed opponent, then deal with the others in the order of their threat levels.

Rule 10: When there's no time to think, you'll revert to your training. Train realistically. Train often. It can save your life.

 

[Warp]

I don't know that counting your shots works out very well in the real world for many/most people.

I'm not so sure about "if in doubt, whip it out" either.

I've seen arguments for #9 but I've also seen "nobody gets shot twice until everybody gets shot once". Not sure where I stand on that, hope I never find out where I stand on that, probably wouldn't have the wherewithal to make it a conscious decision anyway

 

[1SOW]

Catch 22: "In a gunfight" means "Don't be there" isnt possible.
Now, what is rule #1 "When" you are there, rightly or wrongly..