What is the rationale for banning the 9 mm Parabellum in some markets???

[saturno_v]

Some countries (i.e. Mexico, Italy, France, Belgium and others) ban the use of the 9 mm Parabellum round for civilians because considered a "military" round.

However, these same countries allow with no problem at all ammunition way more powerful than the 9 mm for their civilian pistols (45 ACP, 40 S&W, in Mexico, for example, the 38 Super is a huge hit).

What is the rationale behind this?? It's not that the 9 mm is a particularly powerful cartridge.....

France actually is an exception because it bans ANY round that has been used by ANY military force in the world (rifles and pistols)

But the majority of these countries ban just the use of the 9 mm Parabellum (aka 9 mm Luger in US).

Any comments or ideas???

 

[Warren]

That bit about France is incorrect. There are plenty of Frogs on THR that have .45s and .223s etc.

 

[saturno_v]

Really??

I thought it was different....pardon!!!

However the ban ont he 9 mm remains....LOL

 

[Halo]

I can only guess it's meant to keep the peasants from having easily re-supplied arms. Of course, in the event of insurrection the serfs could just steal both weapons and ammo from the government forces. Making sense has never been real high on the priority list for antis.

 

[saturno_v]

Some time ago I heard two possible explanation for the ban:

1) To avoid logistic supply problems for the armed forces in case of national emergency.

2) Ban in place because the 9 mm is the round of choice for small easily concealable sub-machine guns which are a big NO-NO for civilians

 

[Mastiff]

I always thought it was to keep supply sergeants from selling the ammo on the side,

 

[saturno_v]

I always thought it was to keep supply sergeants from selling the ammo on the side,

That is a good one... and maybe the REAL reason after all......

 

[jr_roosa]

I'll bet it has a little something to do with La Revolucion and the concern that it may be lurking around the corner. Castro "invaded" Cuba with 82 guys and some guns and took the place down. If you run a country that has a few too many unhappy people I'll bet you do anything you can to keep military weapons where you can keep an eye on them.

Here are three other reasons that come to mind:

1. I'll bet that back in the day when these rules were put in place there was a clearer distinction between military rounds and sporting rounds. I'll bet in those countries it was never legal to own a military weapon if you didn't wear a uniform...I may be wrong on that.

2. It's easier to prohibit a class of weapons by going for the round they fire rather than a description of the weapon itself...fewer loopholes.

3. If the ammo is illegal you don't have to find the gun to arrest the revolutionary...you just have to catch him with the food for it.

Those are my guesses.

-J.

PS, Oh, and I thought the deal in France was you need to apply for a special permit for getting .223 or 9mm, but that the permit is easy to get. I also may be wrong on that.

 

[saturno_v]

Yes but the fact is that these countries allow you to buy a 50 cal Desert Eagle ....but not a 9 mm...

 

[Beagle-zebub]

I suspect that the logic is as follows:

--9mm is the military round.
--Subjects should not have military weapons.
--Therefore, a subject must not have a 9mm.

I believe the same logic went into the Assault Weapons Ban:

--Bayonet lugs are exclusive to military equipment.
--Subjects should not have military equipment.
--Therefore, subjects may not have bayonet lugs.

 

[Coronach]

And remember, gun control laws rarely make objective sense. You'll go mad trying to follow the 'logic'.

Mike

 

[Ed Ames]

In Mexico it is very clear and explicit: No MILITARY calibers in the hands of civilians. If a cartridge has ever been used by a military anywhere civilians can't have it. Their reason and concern is that they have had revolutionaries for the last 150+ years and they want to hold down the insurrections any way they can. Cheap military surplus guns (i.e., all those guns C&R collectors love to buy) would make that harder, especially since those are the guns neighboring countries (like the USA, traditionally) could slip across the border to supply rebels and keep things destabilized.

 

[steelyblue]

The real deal in Mexico is that if you are a mexican citizen with land, you can have just about anything you want. I've met people there with fully automatic 223's. They shoot them all the time without the slightest hassle by authorities. However, if I, a non citizen, cross the border with as much as a spent case of 45acp, I will be thrown in jail. A Mexican jail does not feed you, and if you don't have family to bring you food, you starve. You also get thrown in jail if you are in a car accident without insurance, even if you are rear ended(non citizens only). I live on the border and visit frequently. It is not as visiter friendly as is the US, but money talks.

Sorry, I believe that the reason for the policies are to limit the amount of power the people have. I once saw a family walking out of their house carrying everything they owned. We stopped and asked them why they were leaving and they informed us that the military took their house to set up a checkpoint. This was 5 years ago and the military checkpoint is still there. There was no eviction process or eminant domain proceedings, just "get out, this is ours now" The Government there has all power and wants to keep it that way.

 

[saturno_v]

In Italy I kno as fact you cannot own a 9 mm Para but you can own a 308, 45 ACP, 223, etc...all other military calibers except the 9 mm Parabellum

 

[asknight]

More cheap ammo for the US!

 

[MK11]

There's no logic, just attempts to control. If you want a real leap, look at Connecticut. AK-47s in 7.62x39 are banned yet AK-74s in .223 or the commie equivalent are totally kosher.

 

[saturno_v]

The words 'cheap" and "ammo" are an oxymoron in these days....

 

[JD Houston]

The 38 Super is a better round than the 9MM but here in the states it just never gained any popularity. I own both, but does this mean the average peon in Mexico can not have either caliber?

 

[Dobe]

I believe the answer is a mix of many that have been offered.

In order to keep the possiblility of a revolution to a minimum, you must make sure the populous remains unarmed. The greatest close supply of ammo resides with the military and police. Therefore, ban all calibers used by your government. Anyone caught with that caliber is subject to arrest. This will reduce the risk of stolen military ammo.

In third world countries, corruption among governmental officials is very high. One way to reduce the outflux of military ammo to the black market is to make that commodity illeagal for civilian use.

 

[strangelittleman]

In those countries, the people are considered subjects/objects.
Here, we're considered citizens, well at least for the time being.....It seems our citizenship( individual rights) is(are) slipping away monthly.

 

[asknight]

Saturno_v: you have a point there!

 

[berrieberrie]

And just to show that some places in Europe aren't as bad yet: 9mm still legal in Belgium (and about the most popular, too).

 

[RickH]

I heard that these laws in Mexico and Central and South America were to hold the government/army accountable. A body is found riddled with 9mm-the military did it. A body is found riddled with .38 super, probably not the military. Not sure if this is true or not, but gun control laws often make little or no sense. This kinda makes sense in countries that have had civil unrest or government run death squads.

 

[loop]

Simple, to suppress the right of the people to self defense.

It is a history lesson. It goes back to the 13th century.

Once upon a time the King of England required all his subjects to keep arms in the event they may be needed in military service. Then the king realized that an armed public could overthrow the government.

That led to the Magna Carta in 1215. In 1778 Henry Le Blanc introduced the concept of replaceable parts. Then along came Eli Whitney...

His theory led to interchangeability. A machine could be fixed by simply changing one part rather than replacing the whole machine.

Universal replacement leads to universal accessibility. That is not good for a repressive regime.

If I have all the weapons you cannot revolt. If I have all the ammo your logistics are unrealistic.

SOPHOMORIC - literal translation is wise/fool.

Just takes a little study of history.

BTW, fix your gun yet or are you to preoccupied with your computer?

 

[jeepmor]

I always thought it was to keep supply sergeants from selling the ammo on the side,

That is a good one... and maybe the REAL reason after all......

Particularly in such an upstanding and uncorruptable environment like Mexico......