stillkickin
Member
same here
What is your rifles zero?
- Thread starter kis2
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Hey, for those of us who don't have a lot of rifles and are new to them... I read about different rifles/calibers being mentioned in this thread and I have this question: Do the 25/300, or the 50/200 zeroing methods cover multiple calibers as a general rule? I understand that @100 yards and less, pretty much every bullet will fly straight so that's not my question.
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
Zak Smith
Member
culpeper99,
What I said before was,
This means just what is says. If there is wind when you're establishing the zero, if you later shoot when there is zero wind, the windage error that is built into your previously-established zero will show up as the bullet hitting left or right of the intended POI. For any given crosswind, there is more "MOA" of windage required to correct for it the further you are shooting. Thus, establishing your zero at a distance further than 100 yards may incorporate more error (windage error) built into your zero.
What I said before was,
This means just what is says. If there is wind when you're establishing the zero, if you later shoot when there is zero wind, the windage error that is built into your previously-established zero will show up as the bullet hitting left or right of the intended POI. For any given crosswind, there is more "MOA" of windage required to correct for it the further you are shooting. Thus, establishing your zero at a distance further than 100 yards may incorporate more error (windage error) built into your zero.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
A generality for almost all deer cartridges (faster than the .30-30) is that two inches high at 100 yards will be about dead-on at 200 and about six inches low at 300. Give or take an inch or so at 300; it's of little importance. IOW, close enough for Bambi-work.
This omits the magnums and the hot-shot .22s like the Swift.
I've found that dead-on at 25 yards with a low-mount scope will be maybe three inches high at 100 yards with most deer rifles.
This omits the magnums and the hot-shot .22s like the Swift.
I've found that dead-on at 25 yards with a low-mount scope will be maybe three inches high at 100 yards with most deer rifles.
culpeper99
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Zak
Thanks. I was making it more complicated than it seemed. Okay, yeah zeroing at 300 yards is difficult with any type of wind present. The same wind would be a non-factor when zeroing at 100 yards. I get it now. It is the same premise to spin drift. If your drift isn't zeroed at 300 then you have a built in error right there as well. It is very difficult to get a true zero at 300 yards because of wind and drift, unless you have a test tunnel to shoot in. All of which is moot since the elevation knob is just there to change my zero to a desired range. With all this in mind I see why a 100 yard zero is most desired (especially with a 30mm scope). With today's apps that take into consideration wind, spin drift, and Coriolis. The latter two accounting for up to .5 MOA with no wind at 500 meters.
In hindsight, zeroing at 300 yards is a tactical kill/wound zero. Shoot at the crotch below 300, shoot over the head at 600 yadie ya dah. It doesn't have a place in hunting or target shooting I guess. Anyway, you have a convert. Thanks for the help.
John5036,
It is an old method that works no different than looking down the bore of your barrel to bore sight. Like Art, I think the rule may apply for standard .30 caliber hunting rifles but when you get into the cartridges that have roots from wildcat cartridges you are looking at a very flat trajectory; i.e. the reason behind their development.
Thanks. I was making it more complicated than it seemed. Okay, yeah zeroing at 300 yards is difficult with any type of wind present. The same wind would be a non-factor when zeroing at 100 yards. I get it now. It is the same premise to spin drift. If your drift isn't zeroed at 300 then you have a built in error right there as well. It is very difficult to get a true zero at 300 yards because of wind and drift, unless you have a test tunnel to shoot in. All of which is moot since the elevation knob is just there to change my zero to a desired range. With all this in mind I see why a 100 yard zero is most desired (especially with a 30mm scope). With today's apps that take into consideration wind, spin drift, and Coriolis. The latter two accounting for up to .5 MOA with no wind at 500 meters.
In hindsight, zeroing at 300 yards is a tactical kill/wound zero. Shoot at the crotch below 300, shoot over the head at 600 yadie ya dah. It doesn't have a place in hunting or target shooting I guess. Anyway, you have a convert. Thanks for the help.
John5036,
It is an old method that works no different than looking down the bore of your barrel to bore sight. Like Art, I think the rule may apply for standard .30 caliber hunting rifles but when you get into the cartridges that have roots from wildcat cartridges you are looking at a very flat trajectory; i.e. the reason behind their development.
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Scoped centerfire for target use:
My first goal is zero @ 100 & zero out elevation knob.
2nd goal check what the elevation correction is to get to 200.
3rd goal is to see where the zero (100 yds) puts me @ 50yds.
4th goal is to find the elevation corrections for subsequent yardages.
Reasoning is 100 is easy to find a range. I also have access to 200 & 50 that I can shoot at. That way I a can verify zero or rezero at those yardages if needed.
I always start from 100 yds. I have left a 600 yd correction on the gun for 3 months at a time but it was dialed up not zeroed. I took the rifle back to a 100yd range dialed down to zero & let my friend shoot it. Dead on.
I refer to zero as the where the 100 yd zero is. I refer to adding elevation as correction. I mainly shoot targets with centerfire. Not really a hunter anymore.
Any other rifles for other use would be a different strategy. A NM AR15 would have a 200 yd zero.
My first goal is zero @ 100 & zero out elevation knob.
2nd goal check what the elevation correction is to get to 200.
3rd goal is to see where the zero (100 yds) puts me @ 50yds.
4th goal is to find the elevation corrections for subsequent yardages.
Reasoning is 100 is easy to find a range. I also have access to 200 & 50 that I can shoot at. That way I a can verify zero or rezero at those yardages if needed.
I always start from 100 yds. I have left a 600 yd correction on the gun for 3 months at a time but it was dialed up not zeroed. I took the rifle back to a 100yd range dialed down to zero & let my friend shoot it. Dead on.
I refer to zero as the where the 100 yd zero is. I refer to adding elevation as correction. I mainly shoot targets with centerfire. Not really a hunter anymore.
Any other rifles for other use would be a different strategy. A NM AR15 would have a 200 yd zero.
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P5 Guy
Member
300 meters is the Battle Zero. My M1 is zeroed for 100 yards and I then check the 200, 300 and 600 settings. Most of the time I am within a few inches of where POA is equal to POI.
SharpsDressedMan
member
Can't vote.
I have a 700 Remington .300 Win Mag that has the crosshairs zeroed at 700 yards. It has a mil dot scope, and I have a range card developed that allows me to stay on the mil dot scale out to 1100 yards without using the elevation turrets. I recently verified my zero, and I must place the point of aim at 4 2/3 upper mil dot (a point about 2/3 between the 4th upper mildot and the upper verticle post) to hit right on at 100 yards. All other yardages are similarly plotted. My load is a 200gr Sierra BTMK over IMR 4350, @ 2830fps. I can extend the range to 1200 yards with the elevation turret and a set number of clicks. Haven't tried anything futher than that. Once you get your plotted range impacts on a mil dot scope, fast, accurate shots are only a matter of wind doping.
I have a 700 Remington .300 Win Mag that has the crosshairs zeroed at 700 yards. It has a mil dot scope, and I have a range card developed that allows me to stay on the mil dot scale out to 1100 yards without using the elevation turrets. I recently verified my zero, and I must place the point of aim at 4 2/3 upper mil dot (a point about 2/3 between the 4th upper mildot and the upper verticle post) to hit right on at 100 yards. All other yardages are similarly plotted. My load is a 200gr Sierra BTMK over IMR 4350, @ 2830fps. I can extend the range to 1200 yards with the elevation turret and a set number of clicks. Haven't tried anything futher than that. Once you get your plotted range impacts on a mil dot scope, fast, accurate shots are only a matter of wind doping.
PowerG
Member
For deer hunting, 7mm-08 is 2" high at 100 yards, 45/70 is dead on at the same range. Targets, the scope will be set at the range the target is.
Strykervet
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My zero depends. I picked 100 because that is the default zero I use for any rifle short of a .22. For my military stuff, for ACOGs, it just works great. I tend to zero most optics at this range too. I may tweak the zero later at different distances until I get what I want.
I still zero backup sights at 25m/300m --the army way. Because I don't use them much, if ever, I just want a simple zero that works when I do. Not the best, but it works well for things like this.
For match shooting with irons, with the carry handle on an AR, I have a dope book and use the zero applicable at the range. This changes at not only the distance, but also depends on weather and ammo. It takes awhile to accumulate good data, and a lot of rounds, but once you have it, a quick spin on that dial and you are dead on it. No need for Kentucky windage, no need to guess elevation. Focus on sight picture.
For a laser, for an IR laser, I zeroed those at 300m exclusively. They work VERY well when used properly.
Still, the zero is only as good as the fundamentals you apply and the ability to repeat body positions accurately. I've seen guys get great 600m zeroes one day, then go back the next day, same weather, wind, time, etc., and group a full six to twelve inches over depending on the position.
I still zero backup sights at 25m/300m --the army way. Because I don't use them much, if ever, I just want a simple zero that works when I do. Not the best, but it works well for things like this.
For match shooting with irons, with the carry handle on an AR, I have a dope book and use the zero applicable at the range. This changes at not only the distance, but also depends on weather and ammo. It takes awhile to accumulate good data, and a lot of rounds, but once you have it, a quick spin on that dial and you are dead on it. No need for Kentucky windage, no need to guess elevation. Focus on sight picture.
For a laser, for an IR laser, I zeroed those at 300m exclusively. They work VERY well when used properly.
Still, the zero is only as good as the fundamentals you apply and the ability to repeat body positions accurately. I've seen guys get great 600m zeroes one day, then go back the next day, same weather, wind, time, etc., and group a full six to twelve inches over depending on the position.
culpeper99
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SharpsDressMan,
What is your accuracy in MOA past 600 yards using this method? I have a mil-dot as well and just ignore it because I rarely shoot past 600 meters and prefer using it for range estimation practice rather than hold over for accuracy.
What is your accuracy in MOA past 600 yards using this method? I have a mil-dot as well and just ignore it because I rarely shoot past 600 meters and prefer using it for range estimation practice rather than hold over for accuracy.
Danny Creasy
Member
.243 Winchester Model 70
3 shot group fired at 100 yards from concrete bench. There was a little wind from the right. So, I left it as is. 200 yards is about it for my uses and this allows dead on hold for small targets.
Federal Premium that is factory loaded with Sierra 85 grain BTHPs.
3 shot group fired at 100 yards from concrete bench. There was a little wind from the right. So, I left it as is. 200 yards is about it for my uses and this allows dead on hold for small targets.
Federal Premium that is factory loaded with Sierra 85 grain BTHPs.
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mortablunt
Member
I remember my G3 had a zero I set for 100m.
35 Whelen
Member
If you're talking about a hunting rifle, I NEVER zero at xxx yds. Rather, my goal is for my group at 100 yds. to be (usually) about 2.75" above the point of aim. With this zero, my 35 Whelen and the 225 gr. Barnes TSX is on about 225 yds. and about 24" low at 400 yds. which is about as far as I'm comfortable shooting at a living breathing animal.
With my 280 Rem. running 140 gr. Partitions at 3000 fps using the same zero, I'm on right about 255 yds. and a fair over 14" low at 400.
My goal is to not have TOO much rise in my bullet as when firing offhand at moving game it's quite normal to shoot high for whatever reason. With the 2.75" zero at 100, my bullet typically rises no more than 3.5 inches or so.
35W
With my 280 Rem. running 140 gr. Partitions at 3000 fps using the same zero, I'm on right about 255 yds. and a fair over 14" low at 400.
My goal is to not have TOO much rise in my bullet as when firing offhand at moving game it's quite normal to shoot high for whatever reason. With the 2.75" zero at 100, my bullet typically rises no more than 3.5 inches or so.
35W
sansone
Member
my AR10 chambered in .243 is zeroed at 200yds
AR15 chambered in 7.62x39 zero @ 100
AR15 chambered in 7.62x39 zero @ 100
Pretty much every rifle I own is left at +2" @ 100 yards. This is everything from my AK's & AR's th my 30-30's & 30-06's. Most any shooting I do is in the 75-125 yard range. The +2" @ 100 yards is "close enough" for deer, coyotes or even social work out to 225 yards, I've never taken a shot that far outside of the range anyway.
45crittergitter
Member
None of the above. Pretty much all of mine are zeroed for MPBR, based on the intended target size. Other methods have very, very little use for me.
SharpsDressedMan
member
Culpeper99, not sure what you are looking for re: MOA. Not having an extended range to practice on here in NE Ohio causes me to go to Camp Perry every so often, and register for the long range events just to shoot my .300WM at 1000 yards. One time I used the mil dot scale, but when shooting competition, you look for every advantage, and most often I re-zeroed the crosshairs for 1000. That involves changing my 100 yard bullet impact from 16 3/4" high (my 700 yard crosshair zero) to 29" high, for a 1000 zero. In one tournament, I was "on target" with two sighting shots (they give you unlimited shots, but then you must declare "shooting for record", with both sighters and 20 shots for record in 30 minutes). I felt like my calculations, zero settings, and equipment were doing exactly what I wanted. I shot a 189 out of 200, and I only practiced with a .22 bolt action in the backyard prior to the event. I have shot at random ranged targets out in Colorado while on vacation, just for fun, and calculated impacts were spot on, so I know my scale is valid. My rifle is not a totally tricked out match rifle; it started as a 24" Remington Sendero, and has had the barrel set back and chamber recut, trigger tuned, and is still in the factory stock (now bedded & painted camo). It will reliably shoot 3/4" at 100 with the right loads, so I expect 1MOA along the way if I do my job. Since one shoots from prone, unsupported (no bipod or rest), but using the sling, you rarely get "MOA" (especially with the wind). With respect, some guys ARE that good, but I am not one of them.
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culpeper99
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That's what I was looking for. Good shooting! I wish I lived in Ohio so I could go to Camp Perry each year. Some day I'll make a trip of it.
henschman
Member
My M1 and M1A are zeroed for 275 yds., which is 250m. That is 2 MOA up from the 200 setting. With that zero, a 6 o'clock hold gets me hits on man-sized targets from point blank to 300m.
My ARs are zeroed for 300m with the small aperture. That gets me hits on man-sized targets from point blank to 350m. For close quarters I flip to the large aperture, which gives me a 50/200m zero, which is only 2" above POI at the height of the bullet's arc (around 100m), and is roughly 2" low at 250m.
Red dot optics are zeroed for 50/200. ACOG is zeroed like it is supposed to be, at 100m using the tip of the chevron (which makes all of the stadia lines zeroed for their respective distances).
My ARs are zeroed for 300m with the small aperture. That gets me hits on man-sized targets from point blank to 350m. For close quarters I flip to the large aperture, which gives me a 50/200m zero, which is only 2" above POI at the height of the bullet's arc (around 100m), and is roughly 2" low at 250m.
Red dot optics are zeroed for 50/200. ACOG is zeroed like it is supposed to be, at 100m using the tip of the chevron (which makes all of the stadia lines zeroed for their respective distances).
NYH1
Member
I zero my rifles at different distances depending on there intended use.
My Marlin 336C 35 Rem. with XS Ghost Ring Sights is zeroed a half inch or so high at 50 yards. I use it for thick brush, deep woods and still hunting so I won't shoot it past 75/100 yards.
My Remington model 700 BDL 223 Rem. is zeroed a half inch high at 100 yards. That way it's pretty much point of aim out to 200 yards. Most shots aren't much past 100 yards.
My Remington 700 Classic 280 Rem. is zeroed at 200 yards. I'll be about 2 inches high at 100 yards and down about 7 inches at 300 yards and 20 inches at 400 yards which is farther then I'll shoot it while hunting.
I'm going to zero my new Remington 7600 Carbine 30-06 Spr. at 100 yards. It's going to be my main big game hunting rifle/carbine. I'll see more game under 100 yards then over 100 yards. I hunt mostly in the woods so long shots aren't the norm.
NYH1!
My Marlin 336C 35 Rem. with XS Ghost Ring Sights is zeroed a half inch or so high at 50 yards. I use it for thick brush, deep woods and still hunting so I won't shoot it past 75/100 yards.
My Remington model 700 BDL 223 Rem. is zeroed a half inch high at 100 yards. That way it's pretty much point of aim out to 200 yards. Most shots aren't much past 100 yards.
My Remington 700 Classic 280 Rem. is zeroed at 200 yards. I'll be about 2 inches high at 100 yards and down about 7 inches at 300 yards and 20 inches at 400 yards which is farther then I'll shoot it while hunting.
I'm going to zero my new Remington 7600 Carbine 30-06 Spr. at 100 yards. It's going to be my main big game hunting rifle/carbine. I'll see more game under 100 yards then over 100 yards. I hunt mostly in the woods so long shots aren't the norm.
NYH1!
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