What makes a good shooter?

[trooper]

Hi everybody,

I went shooting with my squad yesterday. When we took our turns I started to think about the different attitudes towards shooting my squaddies have.

I noticed three main groups:

- I hate shooting and I hate qualifying even more

- I love shooting and try to improve everytime

- shooting is okay but I could do without it

We discussed how these attitudes relate to shooting skills. Obviously those who like to shoot do far better than those who only shoot because they have to.

What really got me thinking was a comment from a colleague who shoots quite well but counts himself as group 3. He said that while shooting can be improved through practice the potential to shoot well is basically a personal trait you either have or not.

I have never thought about that before. I did improve my own performance a lot during the last months by regular practice but on the other hand I always shot in the top 10% of my class in recruit training, and I've always considerered myself to be someone who has the means to become a good shooter.

Can someone who is a crap shot eventually reach a high level of proficiency? Does it simply take more training, or are there limits?

It reminds me of an old saying: "You can't make a derby champion out of a working horse but you can make a darn fast working horse of it..."

I'd like to hear your thoughts about this.


Regards,

Trooper

 

[LiquidTension]

I'm sure there are some people who will never be good shooters no matter how much they practice, kinda like there are some people that will never be good drivers no matter how often they get behind the wheel. I'd like to think that I have some inherent skill with firearms, but I know for a fact that when I don't practice for a while my groups start to get pretty big.

 

[Jeeper]

I strongly believe that ANYONE could make it to GM class if they really wanted to. The guys that are the best are on top because they practiced A TON!!!!! They notice every mistake and work on every problem. Rob Leatham carries his gun around the house in his hand so that he is always familiar with it. It is pure dedication. There might be some small part that is natural ability related but it is only under 1%. There are people that might learn quicker than others but practice and dedication are the keys.

 

[Dorrin79]

practice, and a willingness to learn

 

[sanchezero]

Like any activity dependent on skill, particularly fine motor control, attention to detail is important. Practicing without an understanding of how and why you do something will only get you so far.

To really improve your skill you need to totally dissect the technique and be able to justify each motion positively.

So, an analytical attention to pertinent minutae and the willingness to persistently apply aforementioned attribute.

 

[M67]

Some people learn quickly, some more slowly. I have some experience training new pistol shooters, the past couple of years in an "official" capacity as a club coach, I've been to coaching-skul and everything, so I'm sort of a certified know-it-all.

I think almost anyone can become a decent shot with a reasonable amount of practice. With more practice, almost anyone can become a good shot. Coaching speeds up the process considerably, especially with beginners, and the coach doesn't have to be a great shot himself, take it from someone who knows. Willingness to learn is very important, the best indication of that is that it's almost always easier to teach women - they pay attention. Sometimes it's almost scary to give shooting tips to women, they look me in the eye, listen attentively, then do as I say - so I better not screw up and give bad advice... By comparison, the average male pretends to listen, looks at the gun and drools.

To become really good, I mean national/world class good, you probably need a certain amount of talent in addition to lots and lots of training. At the very least you need a talent for training, that extra driving force that most of us lack, the ability to train and train and train well beyond the point where most of us say: "Enough training, I'm gonna have a beer."

sanchezero,

 

[TheMariner]

Well, a good shooter how? Just able to hit the bull's eye or hit it under stress, time limit, and simulated threat of physical harm?

Lets go with the first since its alittle easier to examine...
Oh, and btw, no such thing as "natural ability" with a gun...


Let's start with the physical basics
Certainly a basic level of control and eye-hand coordination is required to even hit the target... But how much more points does the ability to control and guide the weapon give you. Dunno. But those with a high degree certainly are better off than those who don't. THus, there is some apparent ease with which someone so gifted might be able to handle themselves...

THe eyes are another poitn where having better helps. Depth perception is also key for judging distances and "sharp" eyes help with mental calculations for elevation, wind, and movement.

Also being "gifted" with a brain or lack there of helps too. To truly be a master marksman, you have to be smart enough to cut out the unnecessary bull crap many people try to throw in and focus on teh basics. Or really stupid to be able to just do as you are told, thus only being able to execute the basics. Certainly, for the purposes of combat, the former is much more preferable than the latter.

As for the work horse vs race horse... the "Field" of racing is purely genetic. You either have the genes that give you the parts to be fast or you don't... Top athletes are all genetically superior runners to me... But amongst themselves, training is what makes the difference. THus, amongst people of my inherent capacity, training would make the difference but I'll never be as fast as an olympic runner. I don't have teh leg length or lung capacity or red blood cell count to process the oxygen as well as they do.. Sure, I could probably stiff up on some drugs, take an injection of red blood cells and I *might* finish somewhere near "olympic" level. But I'm not going there... I practiced pistol and rifle so I didn't have to run.

But in the world of guns, physical strength, stamina, lung capacity, etc is mostly mute. The gun wasn't hailed as the great equalizer for nothing. It gave even the weakest person a way to level the playing field.

Now, there is no substitute for experience and in the field of marksmanship, target practice is teh most practical way to get experience and understand the basics... Gunfighting and war are probably not a good idea to start with for practicing purposes.

How much can practice overcome physical.. "deterents". I dunno. Certainly Annie had some inherent ability but Doc Holiday was not a good shot by ANY stretch of the imagination.. He just had determination and an aura of fear that surrounds a man who is pretty much dead already.

So can a crappy shot be the best? yeah... He might be an "old guy" by the time he gets to the top but he could do it... I guess in the shooting field, it depends on how much you want to sacrifice.

Ofcourse, some people have teh proper intuition for firearms.... I think it is a very narrow band of inherent genetic "pluses" that come together to make someone good at pistol, rifle, or shotgun. But these very same genetically gifted skills and intuition points might make someone a lousy knife thrower. Like me. I prefer large knives so that it really doesn't make a difference which end I hit them with... My brother, however, is better. But he was not a very good pistol marksman from the begining. It took hours of practice for him to get to the level I started at.


In the end, I guess you skill level is what YOU make of it..

 

[jimbo]

Work is not enough. For heaven's sake there are some folks who were born with superb vision and a rock-steady hand. Certainly they must work to develop them most from their skills. But if you were born with really crappy vision and a tendency for your hands to shake, well good luck becoming a champion. Just MHO.

FWIW, I knew a girl in college who had naturally rock-steady hands. We used to play D&D in college and she always painted the eyes on our D&D figures because her hands were perfectly steady -- no shake or wander at all.

Now how do you compete with that?

It takes certain God-given natural attributes combined with practice to become a fantastic shooter. Vision is paramount among them.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Can someone who is a crap shot eventually reach a high level of proficiency? Does it simply take more training, or are there limits?

I didn't start out as a "crap shot," but wasn't at all accurate, and soon developed some bad habits. Coaching, lots of practice, more coaching, and lots more practice turned me into a pretty good shooter... until, of course, I started to develop arthritis and stop seeing well.

I think the key factor is motivation: if you're motivated to shoot well, you'll put in the range time and learn from people who shoot really well; if not, you probably won't.

 

[zorba]

Can everyone be a sharpshooter? No, but everyone can become a more proficient shooter with practice. Handgun skills diminish rapidly without consistent practice. It also helps to be in good physical condition, I don't mean a musclehead, just a light workout 2, 3 times a week to keep muscle tone. A good mindset is also a plus, visualization is a good technique. Sit in a quiet room with no distractions, close your eyes and using all your senses, visualize yourself drawing the gun, aiming, firing and hitting the ten ring! This will train your brain so when you actually do it, your muscle response will be smoother because your brain already knows what is going to happen. It may sound corny, but visualization is used by many athletes in various sports with positive results. It is even useful for salesmen, etc. Can't hurt to try.

 

[happy old sailor]

much good advice here. may i add two words?

mental discipline.

this is the sheep/goat separator. once you get the basics down, the rest is in your head. sufficient rest, no tobacco, no alcohol, no caffiene. live the life of an olympic athlete. concentrate on the job at hand and drive all other thoughts from your mind. you only compete against yourself. yada yada, but true.

this is a tough row to hoe and you must really really want to reach the top of the heap. it is no longer fun, it is a martial art.

no matter the sport, this is what it takes.

most ppl will be satisfied, and should be, to be an above average shooter. this is not that difficult to achieve. start slow, shot at a time, examine that shot, make another. accuracy first, speed later. above all, trigger control.

blasting away is fun, but, it is not practice. do i blast away sometimes, sure i do. it is real fun to me too.

 

[Jim March]

I believe there's an inherent component to the ability to accurately "shoot from the hip" with the gun nowhere near the eye sight plane. Some people seem to be able to do that right off the bat, others can only with GREAT difficulty and under stress the ability can evaporate.

I suspect it's somehow connected to the ability to freehand draw. I can do neither worth a dang...the people I've met who are "decent natural hip shooters" also seem to be able to draw at least passably well. The FBI taught "hip shooting" after being influenced by the legendary Jelly Brice, who was *definately* a natural (and quite possibly SUPERnatural ).

The "Cooper school" shooting methods and modern Iscoceles type of two-handed sighted holds can be learned by anybody, at least to the point of being a competent combat shooter.

In *combat*, something else applies: how well can you handle a massive adrenalin dump? I'm convinced that the more you hit a "full overdrive state", the better able to control the "special effects" you get. As a biker, the number of near-wrecks I've dealt with has helped in that department .

 

[stevelyn]

Shooting is a martial art. Like conventional martial arts, the first and most important is to learn the correct and proper technique and once learned, practice to avoid developing bad habits. This forms the foundation you build on.
Concentration makes up the other part of the equation. Everytime you draw and aim you should be doing it by the numbers and concentrating on your grip, the front sight and it's alignment on the target, breath control and your trigger squeeze.
It sounds like a lot to remember, but when you are out there, you are practicing for a possible real situation. As you become more proficient, you should increase the speed. The goal is to get to where you will never have to think about what you are doing in a real situation. That your training and instinct will make your body do exactly what you have practiced on the range when the real thing happens. When faced with the threat of lethal force, your brain will have your hand get the proper grip, draw, and thrusting the weapon out towards the threat and have the front sight COM as your finger takes up the slack in the trigger, all without you having to pay specific attention to each step at combat speeds.
I noticed when practicing and doing well that if I drop my guard and relax too much I'll get sloppy and start scattering my shots.
Wyatt Earp was arguably one of the most sucessful gunfighters in history (he did manage to die of natural causes, not real common among gunslingers) When asked why he was so sucessful, he said he "took his time" when he was facing an opponent. I take that to mean that he observed and implemented the fundamentals of marksmanship when in a fight, concentrating on technique.

 

[Sean Smith]

Willingness to learn is very important, the best indication of that is that it's almost always easier to teach women - they pay attention. Sometimes it's almost scary to give shooting tips to women, they look me in the eye, listen attentively, then do as I say - so I better not screw up and give bad advice... By comparison, the average male pretends to listen, looks at the gun and drools.

Not to suck up to the ladies, but that is soooo accurate.

 

[TallPine]

By comparison, the average male pretends to listen, looks at the gun and drools.

So ... what do you recommend to clean the drool off of my gun?


Seriously, I was a better shot when I was young and had little practice. I guess I had played with toy guns enough that it came natural to me.

Now ... eyes not so good and hands not so steady - can't practice enough to overcome those issues, but maybe enough to compensate for them.

 

[New_comer]

By comparison, the average male pretends to listen, looks at the gun and drools.

HEY!


Who said th... <slurp!!>


Carry on then...