What now of the Militia Movement?

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geegee

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What now of the Miltia Movement?

I got to thinking lately, that in light of recent events in our country has (or will) the militia movement become more acceptable? And should it?

I think that like many American gun owners, I've had no interest in joining an organization that might promote strident anti-government views, and/or exist as a cover organization for Kluxers and neo-Nazi's. But I have to admit that the idea of being able to network with other law abiding citizens who believe in the 2nd Amendment seems to be reasonable and rational.

Has the MM evolved? Have many of it's members either refined their organizations and weeded out the Tim McVeigh types, or have the die hard's simply taken their orgs deeper underground? You sure don't seem to hear much about them anymore, and that seems peculiar, as we've reached a time in our history when you would think they could conceivably be at their strongest.

When I think about the people who are members on this board (mostly former TFL'ers like myself), I must admit that if I thought I could become a member of a network of many who post here (from all over the country), I can't see a real negative side to an affiliation like that. Am I off base here? geegee
 
Depends if you can weed out the strident absolutists in our midst. By tone of your post, you seem like a reasonable person. To me. Others might find you too soft on the issues, and Hilary might find your views extremist.

My take on the MM was it largely made up of folks worried (some paranoid) that our gov't was gonna sell out to the UN, surrender US Constitution, take away their guns, etc. SOME of those issues may be real, some may not.

They did attract their fair share of dis-affected middle aged white men (in the spirit of full disclosure, I fit the demographic). And some whackos. I found some of the postering ridiculous and pitiful. Especially the concept of these guys surviving more than 5 minutes in a full blown fire fight with US Army/Marines/etc.

I guess I'll be on my own when the black helicopters come to take me away. Or the tanks start rolling up my driveway.
 
45Badger:
They did attract their fair share of dis-affected middle aged white men (in the spirit of full disclosure, I fit the demographic).
Click to expand...
Hey, I resemble that remark! :p geegee
 
The Federal government considers private militias to be "terrorist organizations" and the U.S. Army has been trained to eliminate them through urban and suburban warfare. On 9/11 the troops of the 2nd division were standing by to invade Idaho and Montana, should they have become visible.
Beware of "patriotic groups" with hidden agendas. The U.S. government disbanded the lawful militias when Civil Defense was closed down. Anything out there today is well documented by law enforcement and the military through infiltration and it is listed along with criminal organizations in their records.
In the eyes of the government, there is no possibility of a militia organization "keeping the peace" during time of turmoil. It will be immediately eleiminated and the "media" will make it look like a kookaboo weirdo private army out to capture local government and impose its will on the people.
I'm assuming that you haven't heard this before, but you came herre to learn new things, didn't you? You can confirm all of this if you know somebody involved in Army urban warfare training. I did.
So, the wisest solution is to always go solo if you gotta go. I believe that many years ago Kipling wrote a poem to express this idea.
"Down to gehenna, or up to the throne,
He travels fastest who travels alone."
 
Pistolsmith:
The Federal government considers private militias to be "terrorist organizations" and the U.S. Army has been trained to eliminate them through urban and suburban warfare. On 9/11 the troops of the 2nd division were standing by to invade Idaho and Montana, should they have become visible.
Click to expand...
:what: Now that's something I'd like more information about. What reason would the US Army have for having those troops ready on the borders of those states (recognizing that a force that size wasn't assembled on a moment's notice), ready to go on 9/11 ?
So, the wisest solution is to always go solo if you gotta go.
Click to expand...
I don't discount the value of that advice, but if I knew there were many more people like myself, holding to similar views-largely aiding our families and building strength through numbers-I believe there is some advantage to that. geegee
 
Remember the famous "w ould you fire on American Citizns if ordered to surrender their weapon?" that was passed around in Pendelton and elsewhere? Its real alright. More to point is the info I got from silicon valley computer geek who writes programs for Govt. software 'threat determination' that has a threshold of 3-5 persons before you get a nasty high tech surprise assigned to you in combat scenarios'.:fire:
 
This is introduce myself to the forum members. I have played a leading role in the militia movement since 1994, and can report it is alive and well, even if not getting, or drawing, as much attention as it once did. Recent prominent activities include patrolling the border with Mexico to deter or capture illegal immigrants, especially those with hostile intent.

Yes, the Establishment is attempting to suppress the militia movement, but a few of them are coming to realize that only a fully mobilized militia may be able to protect them from weapons of mass destruction smuggled into the country and released in some of our cities.

I have a famous web site at http://www.constitution.org
 
You might check into your states "State Guard". This would be an organized state militia under the direction of the governor.

I know one state (Virginia I think) just recently moblized their state guard to help protect the homeland.

http://www.sgaus.org/
 
I think the militia movement, per se is dead, and would fail if called on a wide scale.

During the Millenium Scare, a thread was posted on TFL about an Idaho (I think) sheriff calling all CCW holders to be on standby if TSHTF on 2000. Maybe an Urban Legend, but think about it. Suppose that in a national emergency, the governor "calls up the militia" and you are to report to a central area for mustering. Are you going to leave your wife and family to be protected by the local authorities?

I feel I can be a better asset to my state/country if I am able to take care of me and mine (food, water, etc.) and maybe some neighborhood defense. Think of southern Florida after hurricane Andrew and the thugs roaming and looting the neighborhoods - and the signs on the houses (that weren't looted) which said, "This house protected by Smith and Wesson".

I suspect that if TSHTF and any kind of state-wide militia was ever called up, there would be too many who would clear their throats, shuffle their feet and get that 1,000-yard stare.

Geegee's question does bring up the point that if most of our National Guard is overseas, as in Desert Storm, what is the next line of law enforcement in an emergency like a major natural disaster, let alone anything else? The last I heard, it was the State Police - and how many of them are around?
 
Jon Roland: That website is one motherlode of information! To what do you attribute the low profile of the MM over the past few years, and especially in light of recent developments?

And to be more direct (if you don't mind), can you shed any light on the statement made by Pistolsmoth regarding US troops asssembling on the state borders of Idaho and Montana, and whether to your knowledge, any militia group you've ever belonged to was singled out for, ah, "special attention" by our government?

Also, have you seen the numbers in the MM increase or decrease over the past 2-3 years, and have you noticed any changes in the type of person that is now joining these groups? More mainstream, for example? Thanks, geegee
 
Somebody is putting words into my mouth to try to deflect the truth. I said NOTHING about assembling on the borders of a state. Fort Lewis is only a short helicopter hop from Idaho and a short run on the highway to Montana.
AThe infiltrators into militia movements are there partially to disseminate false information.
All state militias were disbanded when Civil Defense was abolished. That is, they stopped getting federal funding. Some states kept them because they are a primary source of manpower in case of forest fires and natural disaster. Don't look for the feds to arm them as they did in the 60's.
Any sheriff can deputise a number of civilians into a posse, and this is the ONLY kind of organization that is protected under the law. A local sheriff can exclude all federal organizations from his county at his discretion. All other private organizations will be deemed unlawful.
The primary position of the federal government is to protect the union. If you will remember, the U.S. fought an unlawful civil war; there is absolutely nothing in the constitution that forbids a state from seceding from the union, yet militiary power was used and civil rights were abrogated to prevent the South from leaving the union.
Heed what the poster said above about military people having been polled about shooting Americans who will not surrender their arms. This is no joke and it is no drill. This is zero hour and a word to the wise is sufficient. Anyone who harrangues about the issues that can be verified very easily by speaking to different people should be investigated. Remember, the F.B.I. has planted moles in EVERY private organization. Some states have informers who provide information to law enforcement about private groups. I have a manual, long outdated, that lists every group with over a half dozen members. My own city, at that time, had seven private armies armed and equipped for something or other.
One nationwide publishing company that sells firearms manuals mail order has dutifully supplied the government with a list of manuals sold and who purchased them. In the eyes of law enforcement, if you buy a manual on a sten gun, you have one stashed somewhere. Get the idea?
 
The Federal government considers private militias to be "terrorist organizations" and the U.S. Army has been trained to eliminate them through urban and suburban warfare. On 9/11 the troops of the 2nd division were standing by to invade Idaho and Montana, should they have become visible.
Click to expand...

I thought the 2nd. Infantry Division was in Korea. I thought it has been there since the Korean War. Pretty big move for a deployed divsion, from Korea to Idaho. Funny I never heard of it. I would think the Republic of Korea government would have made a big stink about it.
 
I've been looking into this subject for a while, but can't get anywhere with it. Nobody knows anything about anything for my area. As for my State Guard, they won't answer my emails. :banghead:
 
There are evidently a lot of things yoou don't know about, Pilgrim! The Second (Indian Head) Division has been at Fort Lewis for years and some elements are now moving out for points unknown. I live just 14 miles from fort Lewis and I know a good many soldiers.
It is true that the Second was called up from Fort Lewis and deployed to Korea in 1950. Don't forget that we also have McChord Air Force Base right next door to Fort Lewis and Camp Murray, and those big planes can lift a good many troops at a time. Some days, the patterns are full of them and the roar of the engines continues into the hours of darkness. And, I'm right in the flight path.
They DID NOT deploy to Idaho, Pilgrim. Fort Lewis is right outside Tacoma, Washington. I said they were READY and ALETED to deploy. Don't try to distort what I've said; I said it for a reason and some of the posters above know exactly what I mean.
 
I'm moving this to legal/political.

Also, making claims about US troop deployments to suppress the militia movement is easy to do. I have the 10th Mountain Division camped out in my backyard to keep an eye on me, for instance. Being able to post sources is somewhat harder.

Mike
 
Gee, Corny, are you implying that YOU are a better informed person that some of your posters? Please let us in on the information you think you have.
To all of those who don't care to believe what I've said: Good for you. Go back to sleep. If your eyes are closed you will "see no evil".
A word to the wise, remember. 'Nuff said; I'm leaving this forum.
 
I have snapshots of the Center for Skunk Control agents in the balcony of the apt across from mine...but they disappeared off my computer :confused:
 
"I'm leaving this forum."

Dear me. How will we ever recover? :rolleyes:

What Roland says is correct. The Militia is alive and well, simply taking a lower profile and a slightly different direction. Infiltration is one cause of that. The "wannabes" are another. Locally we have the "Indiana Militia" operated by a character we threw out of the ICVM years ago for general insanity. His "Indiana Militia" consists of him, his wife and a buddy. He's a General, BTW. 4 star, dontcha know.

But, the media gives him lots of attention(national, even*shudder*) and everybody knows him on site. So, while we go and do our thing quietly who do ya think will be Target No 1 if the feds ever do want to make an example of someone? :D
 
"dear me, how will we ever recover?"
I dunno, Blooper. Seems to me some high ranking doodlyfloppers said that about Billy Mitchell a few years ago. And, look at what it cost America in the long run... It just goes to prove that "never" is one helluva long time.
I defy any forumite to find one word, or one faint hint from the Federal Gevernment prior to the invasions, that they intended to kill civilians, including men, women holding babies in their arms and innocent children prior to the incidents at Ruby Ridge and Waco? My goodness, how quickly sunshine patriots and summer soldiers forget the past! It is incredibly ignorant to think the government is going to telegraph their punch.
What part of "The federal government considers private miolitias to be outlaw/terrorist organizations and has infiltrated them all" don't you understand or agree with? Let's see your evidence to the contrary, since your rhetoric is totally unconvincing to anyone trying to make a rational decision here.
What portion of your "patriotic" speil have you changed in the past 30 years or so? Wake up and smell the crude oil! World War II style patriot groups will not be tolerated. In case you have been looking at the ground, the U.N. proclaimed a couple of years ago that it is their ultimate aim to disarm ALL civilians all over the world. What part of "all" didn't quite sink in.
As for the "Second Amendment" perhaps ;you should go to the NRA web site for verification of the undisputed fact that our bill of rights DOES NOT grant you the right to form a militia and to keep and bear arms...it is ENGLISH COMMON LAW that grants you that right. Unfortunately, the English Common Law has been superceded by a nearly complete prohibition of gun ownership...in every English speaking country besides our own.
If you are looking for a hint or two: Nikola Tesla engineered a very small, handheld particle beam weapon. While no patent drawings will be released by the US government, there are enough hints in books about Tesla to build one for yourself. Several web sites have this information.
Rockets (not rifles) are the primary weapon of the Infantry today. .22 bullets don't make it against a powerful rocket with a sizeable warhead. Is this a hint, or what?
Oh, what the heck! Look at the terrible things they said about Bily Mitchell; at least I'm in good company.
I look forward to reading all of the profound and enlightening things you have to say. After all, it's up to you to prove that you are part of the solution and not part of the problem. One dumb move by a private militia and the government will confiscate ALL firearrms including muzzle loaders from us all. Did you catch the change in status of black powder weapons in the first issue of the ATF bulletin we received a month ago? Very quietly, they put black powder arms in the same category as modern firearms for taxation purposes. Read it and weep. And I thought that you guys were supposed to be on top of all this.
 
I'm rather baffled as to the point you are disjointedly trying to make here. Oh, and I thought you had left?

So, the militia is a "terrorist" group? So what? We assumed we would be labeled that and far worse a decade ago when a few of us started this thing. They see us as the enemy and will treat us accordingly. Such is life. And as for legitimacy, so what? Nobody I know is seeking legitimacy for the militia in any document or history of law. Our legitimacy is the fact we wish to exist and associate and so we bloody well will. Anyone with a problem there has a problem. Too bad.

A wrong move by the militia will bring down confiscation? So will a wrong move by any civilian. So will a mass shooting. So will a dozen other things within and without our control. Would you prefer that nobody does anything? That we all sit on our hands individually and wait for the hammer to drop? If you actually believe confiscation is coming and that the government is simply waiting for an excuse, both of which I find at least slightly questionable, then why not make the next logical step: The government will simply engineer yet another conveniently timed school shooting or something similar. They hardly need to wait, now do they?

Yes, most of us have caught the changes, the shuffling, the subtle legislation that permeates the Patriot Act and Homeland Sekurity, as well as Total Information Awareness. Again, what would your preferred response be? Do nothing? If you really believe the above then, again, that really won't accomplish anything either, will it?

As for chances against an organized military, in a nation this size very good. Very good to create complete chaos, anyway. Winning? I don't think winning was ever in anyones plans. Resistance is better than submission, though. Again I'd ask, what is the point that you are trying to make? That since the odds might be against us we should simply quit? Sorry, I just don't feel the urge for that.
 
Do I have to draw out every point?
If you are a student of recent history, you can look at, say, two of the many resistance groups that have existed and easily point out the successful ones and those that failed miserably.
NO GROUP THAT RESEMBLED AN ARMY OR A MILITIA WAS A RESOUNDING SUCCESS.
In 1895 to 1915, in Turkey, where the government issued orders to the civil population to "kill every Armenian" (The Armenians were Christian, the Turks Mohammeden) the underground organizations caused widespread successful operations against Turkish government troops, Kurds, civilian mobs, etc. The groups consisted of three persons. Many were captured, but could only supply the names of two others under torture, at which the Turks excelled. The whole opposition was a success and several individuals even went on to gain the support of International groups and local parliamentarians.
During World War II, I had a very good friend who was a member of the Norwegian underground. His unit specialized in sabotage of trains and train tracks and was also based on three man cells and they went until the end of the war causing the Germans havoc and never being captured. On the other hand, organized (militia) "resistance groups" were quickly apprehanded and executed. Their necessary logistics and supply lines always gave them away.
The point is this: They were resisting occupation by troops of the government in power at the time. They made no attempt to stop any civil riots. They did not guard the borders against infiltration by saboteurs or smugglers. Their aim was NOT to restore order in the face of chaos (they used chaos as a cloak) but to resist political tyranny. And that, sir, is called "true patriotism".
I hope that somebody will see the point I'm trying to make.
The Mohammedens believe in suicide attacks, but perhaps you'd like to review your overall strategy and consider the enormous power of three solitary souls working independently, compared to armies of patriots working in unison.
 
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