What press to start with?

[Detritus]

Layman question...could I use the same die for .357/.38?

If you stick with Lee Dies, I know that at least their current generation of 38Spl. die sets can be setup to load 38Spl, and 357mag. these sets only come with the .38spl load-data sheet though so you'd still need to buy a load manual or other verified source of .357 data.

the set of 357 dies i currently have sitting on my "die shelf" are a mix of 357 marked, and .38 marked dies, the sizer is the .38spl die, the expander/charging die, and seating die are .357 dies.
truthfully i don't know what i'm going to do with them. since

• I have no idea if or when i'll ever own another revolver much less one in 357 or .38 (they were in the bin of reloading stuff my dad gave me this past spring)
• they're still mounted to a Lee 3-hole turret plate, and I have no intention of going back to the 3-hole setup
• I'm still very reluctant to sell them because I just might wind up getting a gun that shoots 357 one day...

 

[Reefinmike]

detritus- I wouldnt say its difficult, but it doesnt make operating the lever very smooth... I prefer working without it and im a good bit faster without. working on the downstroke will sometimes index it to the next die a bit too far. when I load 38's, i have primed cases, grab a case, powder charge it, push up on the lever as I grab a bullet, once the lever is all the way up, i rotate it to the seating/crimp die as I place the bullet, then seat the bullet as I grab a new case, push the lever up, remove the fresh round and put the casing in as I rotate the turret back to the powder thrower. Ive got it down pat that if I were going quick(still keeping an eye on the press making each case gets a powder charge thrown in) i can pump out a box in under 5 minutes. that rate is usually too fast for my thinker to compute and sometimes i accidentally grab a bullet when i really needed to grab a new casing lol. Its not about going fast, though it is nice to pump out three range sessions worth of ammo in an hour!

 

[PaisteMage]

Thanks for that info Detritus

 

[mike.h]

another vote for the LCT. You can always remove the indexing rod if you want to try single stage reloading.

 

[highlander 5]

My first reloading set up was an RCBS Rock Chucker and the aded equipment needed to reload. With that set up I was able to load 100 rds an hour. My next press was a Dillon,don't remember the model but it was bought not long after they went factory direct.
The last 2 were Dillon presses a 550,which I consider the most veritile of the Dillon line.
I now have 2 650s and wouldn't trade them for the world,with case feeders and primer tubes filled I can ro 100 rds in about 12 min. Dillon does cost more but their "No BS" warrantee is the best in the business IMHO.

 

[hubcap]

Ditto what Hondo60 said. Get RELIABLE info, not just what you get off the 'net. This is not a put-down, but as a newbie you probably won't know the difference between good info and BS. I've not used the Lee presses but they have some very good stuff at excellent prices. I started out with a Rockchucker nearly 40 yrs. ago with 38/357 and have been happy with it. I now load about 40 different ctgs. I've added several other presses including progressives, but it is my default. I would STRONGLY recommend starting out on a heavy duty single stage press. You'll never be sorry you have it unless you decide to totally get out of handloading. It will help you stay safe as you learn the basics and will come in handy when you need to do some case forming or swaging if you get addicted.

Everybody has a right to their own opinion, nobody has a right to their own set of facts.

 

[Joatmon]

Excellent advice about reading a manual (or two), it may not sound sexy or be quick but you will learn a lot. You may learn that you really dont want to take up reloading. Better that than buying a pile of equipment and selling it on the "bay" a year later. Not trying to talk anyone out of the hobby, but it is really not for everyone. Try to find someone you know that reloads and get them to show you the ropes. I would not suggest a progressive press to start out with, you can always move to that if the need arises. Virtually every compay makes a good servicable press, pick your color and price point.

 

[budman46]

i'm pleased to see the good reviews of the classic cast turret. 40+ yrs ago i started with a lyman single stage and progressed to dillons...i still have a 550 and two square deal b's, but do 95% of my reloading with classic cast.

i'm not a fan of reloading packages as no one has all the best stuff. i don't favor lee's powder measures or balances, preferring rcbs's 'lil dandy for all things handgun and an old pacific for bigger stuff. i have old manual scales, but rely on a jw digital bought off the internet or an mtm model costing about $25 with a trusted check weight.

as so many others have mentioned, a loading manual is primary..read it and follow the prescribed practices...reloading is not a place to become an experimenter.

 

[RainDodger]

I've been loading for decades, and I have ONE recommendation for a brand new handloader. Get a single stage press and start there. I believe that's the way to really learn what happens at each stage, and what can/will go wrong at each stage.

If you really have to get something fancier, a turret press would be my next choice, as it's essentially a fancy single stage.

 

[KevinR]

One vote for RCBS Rock Chucher, I don't think you could purchase a better press.

 

[Lost Sheep]

My 10 Advices for the Novice Handloader

Thanks for asking our advice and welcome to the forum.

Check out post #15 in this thread

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=623208

and the other posts there, too.

Lost Sheep

 

[joecil]

I also use a Lee Classic Turret and a Lee Classic Cast single stage for shot shell, bullet sizing etc.

 

[ranger335v]

New people (and a few old guys) agonise over what press and dies are 'best.' I have an old Rock Chucker that's done a lot of work and is in perfect condition, the only currently available single stage presses I've tried that were just as good as my RC were by Lyman, Hornady, Redding and Lee. In fact, if Lee's Classic Cast had been available when I bought my RC my main press would be red, it's actually a little better press in that it has better user features. Ditto dies. No mainline company makes bad reloading tools, what features we may prefer is user choice for the tasks we need to do; that's not a valid reflection on the performance of tools we like.

It's telling that most long time reloaders have very specific tastes for features but very little brand loyalty. It all works so we buy new stuff that works the way we want it too, not by the color of the box.

Buy your tools with a bit of common sense and all will be well. Don't get a progressive for casual rifle reloading, don't get a tiny Lee Reloader or RCBS Partner alum. frame press and expect it to last long working with .338 Win. magnum, etc.

 

[heavydluxe]

I am not intending to threadjack, so I hope this question helps the original poster, as well.

What are some 'realistic' round counts that someone can expect to load with a good single-stage press, turret, or progressive while maintaining decent precision/QC on each round?



I'm on the cusp of getting into reloading, too... I spent the past week reading through Lee's reloading book and another called "The Complete Reloading Guide" that I got off someone at our range who reloads.

Right now, I only shoot .223/5.56 and I have three reloading goals:

• Be able to up the amount I shoot without drastically increasing costs
• Load 68gr or greater bullets for more precision shooting (300-500yrd) with my current AR
• Load 55gr rounds for plinking purposes (and eventually for practice in a 'tactical' AR)

I like the 'precision' and craftsmanship (and cost, too) of the single-stage, but, as a parent with young kids and a job, I'm not sure how much I can expect to load in terms of round count per hour. Any help here would be appreciated.

 

[cbmax]

Get a Dillon 550B if you are mainly reloading pistol calibers and be done with it!

CB

 

[Coldfinger]

As mentioned above a single stage press is great. Not great volume, but does its job. I used a Lee hand press for about a year so that I could really get my feet wet. I recently upgraded to a Lee Challenger single stage press. The Challenger comes in a kit with lots of stuff, most of which i will never use. Friend of mine schooled me on the craft and forced me to learn how to use a manual scale before I even touched a digital. The kit comes with a manual scale, powder measure (that is a real pain) and some small case tools. I like Lee for the price and for my needs fits the bill. If I shot/loaded more than a thousand rounds a month, and if I had another year or so experience under my belt I would have gone with a progressive.

Ditto on the Lyman 49th edition reloading manual. Read all you can, research on the net and in this forum.

 

[Lost Sheep]

I am not intending to threadjack, so I hope this question helps the original poster, as well.

What are some 'realistic' round counts that someone can expect to load with a good single-stage press, turret, or progressive while maintaining decent precision/QC on each round?



I'm on the cusp of getting into reloading, too... I spent the past week reading through Lee's reloading book and another called "The Complete Reloading Guide" that I got off someone at our range who reloads.

Right now, I only shoot .223/5.56 and I have three reloading goals:

• Be able to up the amount I shoot without drastically increasing costs
• Load 68gr or greater bullets for more precision shooting (300-500yrd) with my current AR
• Load 55gr rounds for plinking purposes (and eventually for practice in a 'tactical' AR)

I like the 'precision' and craftsmanship (and cost, too) of the single-stage, but, as a parent with young kids and a job, I'm not sure how much I can expect to load in terms of round count per hour. Any help here would be appreciated.

You failed to mention how many rounds you shoot per outing and per month.

If you go for extreme accuracy with bottlenecked rifle rounds, a single stage might be your choice no matter how fast it goes. But if you are shooting greater quantities (like for combat simulations and such or casual plinking) an auto-advancing turret will do better with little loss in the rigidity prized by the hyper-accuracy hounds.

A progressive press is considerably more expensive than a single stage or turret, but if you want more than 250 rounds per hour at the bench, the only way to go.

With my single stage, weighing each charge, carefully quality-checking I could do about 50 rounds per hour. (RCBS RockChucker, but brand really doesn't matter). With my Lee Classic Turret, I could easily top 125 rounds per hour, but not weighing every charge, instead depending on a powder measure. Some people claim twice that rate, but I am not convinced they are not just reporting the cyclic rate instead of the continuous rate.

A Dillon 650 or Hornady LnL progressive can do over 500 rounds per hour if you have all the case feed, bullet feed and do your part.

A good single-stage setup can be had for under $250, but you can get by for a lot less ($150) if you wait on some of the optionals or scrimp on quality. 50-60 rounds per hour.

A truly fine quality auto-indexing turret press and all the accessories for a first class setup can be had for about $350 or less if you scrimp a bit. 125 to 150 rounds per hour.

A first-class progressive setup with all the bells and whistles to take true advantage of a progressive will set you back close to $800 to $1,000. But that is over 500 rounds per hour.

Advice: If you know your are going to want a progressive, get a single stage now and start saving up. Almost every loader I know has a single stage somewhere on his bench. They are handy to have sometimes.

If you will be satisfied with the quantity of a single stage or turret for the forseeable future, get a Lee Classic Turret (Kempf's Gun Shop online and add an Ohaus scale, miscellaneous accessories and a couple of manuals for a first-class setup for under $300)

Don't try to learn on a progressive. You can do it, but it is simpler on a single stage (or a turret operating as a single stage) A progressive can operate as if it were a single stage, too, but it is more complex. Simpler is better. You can learn to walk wearing roller skates, but it is a lot easier in shoes.

Lost Sheep

 

[budman46]

this thread offers much...

get a good loading manual, study and use it.

learn how to use a beam balance (scale) before progressing to a digital.

load single stage until you understand the process.


my additions:

lee's classic cast turret can be used as a single-stage press, as can a dillon 550, hornady lnl or rcbs progressive...what they let you do is become more efficient in the process; all will produce ammo every bit as accurate as a single stage. when i shot thousands of one or two calibers a month, i used dillons, now i shoot a hundred of this, forty of that, etc. so the removable turret system works better for me.

most importantly, follow forums such as this...the guys are always a learning experience...i appreciate their knowledge/experience.

 

[heavydluxe]

You failed to mention how many rounds you shoot per outing and per month.

Presently? 100 an outing, a couple times a month. Would like to do more.

A rough goal might be something like 300-500 rounds of generic shooting with another 200 precision-ish shot out to 300+yrds.

If you go for extreme accuracy with bottlenecked rifle rounds, a single stage might be your choice no matter how fast it goes. But if you are shooting greater quantities (like for combat simulations and such or casual plinking) an auto-advancing turret will do better with little loss in the rigidity prized by the hyper-accuracy hounds.

It kinda struck me that, if you wanted, you could use a turret essentially as a single stage. So, you could slow-the-heck-down, measure, re-measure, and build highly precise loads that way. But, you have the added benefit of being able to up the production speed if there was a need to crank out more - allowing for a little less precision in return.

Is that assumption - that slowing down on a turret allows you to essentially get single-stage precision - wrong?

What wasn't clear to me is what a reasonable load rate really is for the different style presses. If I'm right that both a single-stage and turret could, with care, turn out precise round, the choice between the two probably would come down to cost and how much value you place on the increased production capacity of the turret. Hard to do that math when you don't know the numbers.

If you will be satisfied with the quantity of a single stage or turret for the forseeable future...

I think I would be... In the short term, my main interest in precision .223 loads for a long-range/hunting AR I have. I'm not sure I can, or should, justify reloading equipment expenses for that alone. But, if I had the press and could also reload 55gr ammo for more casual shooting, all the better.

In the longer run, I'm hoping to add a handgun (9mm or .40) and bigger bolt-action rifle (7mm or some .30). If I had the equipment, I could handload for those, too. But, since I don't have them, it's not like I feel the total justfication to purchase.

Your figures, by the way, are helpful for giving me some perspective. Thank you.

Someone also PMed me to suggest some 'factory' ammo options that I had never heard of or considered. So, we'll see.

 

[Uncle Richard]

Lee's single stage for $27.49 at Midway is an excellent press to start on. After a period of learning, you will know what upgrades you want. Have loaded 100,000+ pistol rounds on this press, still works great.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/807734/lee-reloader-single-stage-press

good luck.

 

[DeadFlies]

Lee's single stage for $27.49 at Midway is an excellent press to start on. After a period of learning, you will know what upgrades you want. Have loaded 100,000+ pistol rounds on this press, still works great.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/807734/lee-reloader-single-stage-press

good luck.

I started reloading about 6 months ago with this press. I have loaded about 1200 rounds of 9mm and 350 rounds of 30-30 with it. I even use the Lee Ram Prime system to prime those cases. This is the sum total of my reloading experience but, for what it's worth (and that's a few thousand pulls of the arm) I cannot complain about the press.

It works, it was cheap and it doesn't seem to lack anything I need or have anything I don't.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Presently? 100 an outing, a couple times a month. Would like to do more.

A rough goal might be something like 300-500 rounds of generic shooting with another 200 precision-ish shot out to 300+yrds.


It kinda struck me that, if you wanted, you could use a turret essentially as a single stage. So, you could slow-the-heck-down, measure, re-measure, and build highly precise loads that way. But, you have the added benefit of being able to up the production speed if there was a need to crank out more - allowing for a little less precision in return.

Is that assumption - that slowing down on a turret allows you to essentially get single-stage precision - wrong?

What wasn't clear to me is what a reasonable load rate really is for the different style presses. If I'm right that both a single-stage and turret could, with care, turn out precise round, the choice between the two probably would come down to cost and how much value you place on the increased production capacity of the turret. Hard to do that math when you don't know the numbers.


I think I would be... In the short term, my main interest in precision .223 loads for a long-range/hunting AR I have. I'm not sure I can, or should, justify reloading equipment expenses for that alone. But, if I had the press and could also reload 55gr ammo for more casual shooting, all the better.

In the longer run, I'm hoping to add a handgun (9mm or .40) and bigger bolt-action rifle (7mm or some .30). If I had the equipment, I could handload for those, too. But, since I don't have them, it's not like I feel the total justfication to purchase.

Your figures, by the way, are helpful for giving me some perspective. Thank you.

Someone also PMed me to suggest some 'factory' ammo options that I had never heard of or considered. So, we'll see.

You are very welcome.

9mm and 223 have the slimmest savings (factory retail vs reloaded) and local commercial reloaders and sale prices might make buying that way more economical than loading. (I once bought a whole lot of 45 ACP at Wal-Mart cheaper than I could buy the components.) But such bargains are hard to find. Your 7mm and 30 caliber needs are likely to yield surprising savings, though.

The assumption (slowing the turret and emulating a single stage) is correct. Any turret press can be used exactly as if it were a single stage simply by not turning the turret head. All turrets have some movement, though, and those that anchor the turret head at the center have some tilt (which might be problematic for runout/concentricity). The Lee Turret presses anchor the turret head (disk) around the periphery, so the entire disk lifts straight up (front and rear), so potentially has less alignment problems than a center-anchored disk.

Most folks believe the Forster Co-Ax is the king of alignment and heavy, cast-iron presses like Redding's Big Boss, RCBS RockChucker, Lee's Classic Cast and such to be king for rigidity and leverage. At 300 yards you may or may not be able to tell the difference in your groups. At 1,000 yards, if your rifle, scope and eyesight have the goods, you are more likely to be able to appreciate the small differences press choices might contribute to group size.

At the kind of quantities you are likely to be shooting once you have a loading setup, you are right on the borderline between justifying a progressive press vs a turret. The deciding factor will probably be your budget, I predict.

Some progressive don't have a vertical opening large enough for rifle cartridges.

Good shooting.

Lost Sheep

P.S. My advice.

If I had only $100 to $150, I would start with Uncle Richard's and Deadflies example and go with Lee's single stage press. Either the $30 Reloader, the slightly more expensive (and useable) Challenger or the stronger Lee Classic Cast Single Stage.

If I had $250-$350, the Lee Classic Turret.

If I had $1,000 to $1,500, a Forster Co-Ax and Dillon or Hornady progressive.

I lean towards recommending to you that you contact Kempf's Gun Shop online and talk to Sue Kempf about getting dies for all your loading needs. Once you have the press and accessories, adding another caliber is about $75 and you can swap chamberings in about 10 seconds. If you don't keep a powder measure for every chambering, swaps will cost about $50 and take about a minute. Both examples have dies already installed on a turret disk, so normally no de-installing, re-installing and adjusting required.

 

[CZ57]

Good points about the turret flexing, Lost Sheep. That is the advantage of having Top-Dead-Center on the Lee Classic Turret. The flex will be the same with each ram-stroke because the ram stops precisely at the same point each time.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Good points about the turret flexing, Lost Sheep. That is the advantage of having Top-Dead-Center on the Lee Classic Turret. The flex will be the same with each ram-stroke because the ram stops precisely at the same point each time.

Thanks for the acknowledgement, CZ57. I do feel compelled to mention two corrections.

"Play" or movement due to clearance which I mentioned is not the same as flex. Both do allow dimensional variation, but the mechanisms are completely different. Flex will vary with force (which may vary with amount of lubrication, components' size, metal hardness, etc), where play depends almost solely on clearances. They do stack, however.

While presses whose stroke stops at Top-Dead-Center (as opposed to presses whose stroke "cams over") may be conceptually different, I think the operational, effective difference is nil and not worth worrying about.

Lost Sheep (an inveterate nit-picker)

 

[Fatelvis]

I agree that a turret press of some type would be best for a newcomer, especially if you are loading for more than one cartridge right away. Welcome to your next favorite hobby!