What the heck did I just buy?

[DammitBoy]

Now, I'm a gun guy - not a knife guy, although I do own several knives, swords, bayonets, and whatnot. Mostly, I just buy sharp pointy things that catch my eye while at Gunshows.

I am always attracted to Bowie knives and Damascus, especially knives with stag handles. So, I saw this guys table full of civil war era rifles, pistols, and memorabilia last weekend. He had 7 Bowie knives lined up on a piece of felt, with a place card that said, "take your pick, $100". One of the knives just stood out to me as a higher quality knife and it looked to have some serious aged patina to it.

I picked it up and it melded into my hand like an extension of my arm. It felt right and balanced. I wasn't really looking for a knife, but I offered the guy $75 and he sold it to me.



The s shaped crossguard was loose and I was thinking about how to repair it, and I was planning to sharpen it and start carrying it while hunting in a primitive leather sheath a friend made for me for another bowie I had. Then I noticed some markings on the ricasso - "Hassam" above "Boston".

A quick google search showed that this knife maker only made knives in Boston from 1853-1856! I also found pictures identical to my bowie from the civil war! My question is - is that really what I have and what value would you put on it?







There is a silver pommel cap on the end, kinda hard to see in my pics. Sorry for the poor quality pics, not a camera guy either...

 

[Sam Cade]

Hmmm.
Does it look like the blade has been scrubbed with scotch-brite or similar?

 

[bikerdoc]

I found the same google reference and some others that tell me you really do have something high dollar.

Get in touch with a knife auction house you might be looking at a big payday.

 

[Sam Cade]

Oh yes. I think it is safe to assume that the OP made a very good investment.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Sweet!
I'm not a knife guy either but that's very cool.
You being a gun guy, you may make enough profit for a nice gun when all is said and done.
Nice find.

 

[DammitBoy]

No Sam, the blade looks like a mirror nickel finish, no sign of scouring. What I can't get over, if this is a real civil war era artifact, is how could a guy with a civil war table not know what he had?

Is there a chance this is a forgery? From what I have gathered from research, Hassam was a famous knife maker of the period known for making officers swords and knifes.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

How is the handle attached? What kind of bolt/screw/nut is it? That may tell you if it is modern or indeed really that old.
I wouldn't have any trouble believing it, but I'm no expert.

 

[DammitBoy]

Paul, there is no bolt, nut or screw. The handle appears to be held solely by the nickel/silver pommel cap. If this is a real Hassam Bowie, from what I can gather it is worth between $600-$12,000 dollars based on the few auction sites I have searched through.

I'm a civil war nut, and I'd love to keep an actual artifact from the war, but if this knife is worth thousands of dollars...


----

Sidenote: I looked at this knife twice without touching it as I made my rounds at the show, for some reason I had to go back and pick it up. I told myself if the guy said no to my low ball offer, I'd just walk away.

 

[bainter1212]

Tagged for results.....I am really interested in the provenance of this knife.

 

[Stacer]

Another bump for interest. Beautiful Bowie.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I'm a civil war nut, and I'd love to keep an actual artifact from the war, but if this knife is worth thousands of dollars...

I'd be the same way.
A couple hundred and I'd probably rather have the knife and the history.
When it gets into the thousands, I'd be thinking of all the guns and handloading components I could buy with that kind of cash.

If that is the original handle, and it looks to be, I'd say that would help the value quiet a bit.

 

[ugaarguy]

I may be completely wrong, but I suspect that's a replica. The lettering is incredibly sharp, well spaced, and well aligned. Again, I'm probably completely wrong, but that lettering looks to have been done with more modern tools and techniques.

 

[bainter1212]

Carbon dating could date that horn handle.....might cost ya though.

 

[Ron James]

I hope I'm wrong, but I think you have a 75 dollar knife. I've been studying on line pictures of Hassam knives and I feel it is close but no cigar. Two many differences in manufacturing along with the machine cut lettering. I also would like to know the outcome.

 

[ivankerley]

hmm

cool looking knife and i aint no where near an authority on this but i also thought
the stamp looked modern, also the guard looks a little off...
Dunno man, tough one...
Gene

RIA auction of a custer commemorative knife... notice the font while still a serif typeface doesnt look as perfect as yours does, its possible different stamps different years and all that, dunno

 

[bikerdoc]

This auction item should help,

http://historical.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=680&lotIdNo=4016#12611261512

 

[Sam Cade]

Interesting.

 

[DammitBoy]

I'm headed to New Orleans end of this month. Does anyone know of a reliable person to contact there for a confirmation, one way or another?

 

[DammitBoy]

Bump

 

[Nighteyes]

I agree -- its probably a reproduction. Reproductions are getting better with each passing year, and the market for them is strong. I know it sounds weird, but the steel just doesn't look right. The markings are just a little too precise and the handle just a bit too pristine.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong. But even if I'm not, you still paid a fair price for what you got.

 

[DammitBoy]

I agree nighteyes, even if it's a copy, it's not recent manufacture and its beautiful, plus it is incredibly well balanced. I almost want it to be a replica/forgery, then I won't have a problem getting the s crossguard tightened up and putting a serious edge on the blade so I can carry it without freaking out over a heirloom.

Of course, it won't hurt my feelings if it's a valuable artifact either, just for the cool factor alone. I'd probably still keep it, unless its worth a great deal - then I might have to make a tough choice.

I'm having a hard time waiting til I head out to New Orleans, so I contacted an online appraiser for his opinion. http://www.michaelsimens.com/

Hopefully, I'll get some input from him soon so I know if I need to put this thing in my sheath or the safe!

 

[Charlie Horse]

Try these folks out...

When I was in college, I used to hang out there on the occasional day trip to New Orleans. Good folks back in the day, but its been awhile.

http://shop.cohenantiques.com/

 

[hso]

Should be a "reproduction" from the '60s.

1853-1856 was the period the maker's mark was used.

I'm concerned about four things.

The HASSAM BOSTON stamp is usually offset on this period instead of perfectly centered. They just didn't care as much so they hit where they could kinda reference the spine.
The shape of the blade at the ricasso is different since the HASSAM BOSTON knives had a gentler curve going into the ricasso than the one pictured (much more "modern").
The stag isn't right for an 1850's America since it is too narrow and dark compared to the figured American antler material used in the 1850's. The one you bought is a dark European stag that you'll find on a lot of "Bowie" and hunting knives from Europe since the 50's.
The guard is symmetric while Hassam had a long lower "tail".
The collar and the plate look to be iron. The blade finish is too "nice" for what you see on the vintage market.

Hassam was the most famous of the Boston bowie makers and is one of the most commonly copied.

The knives like this were made in the '60s for the U.S. market in England (or India/Pakistan for English makers).

Note the differences from yours and the one I've pictured.

I called Mark Zalesky at Knife World and sent a pic. He said it was a good $100 repro. Mark is a Bowie authority that I trust completely.

The good news is that you got a good deal instead of a OMG! deal that you can feel just fine about tightening up for use.

 

[DammitBoy]

Yep, HSO - the guy I sent pics to said as much, he said a late fifties reproduction that was nickel plated most likely made in England or Germany.

He put its value between $100-200 because of condition. Which is fine by me. I'll take it to a buddy and have him tune it up for me so I can carry it in the woods.

 

[hso]

When you do, have him take a hard look at the tang to be certain that it will stand up to use. A lot of "reproductions" were only intended to be cool looking and never used.