What to do?

[jbkebert]

I had a knock on the door today it was my neighbor. He hands me a pair of those binoculars with the built in camera and a USB cable. He wants me to take a look at a picture he took on Friday of this week. He tells me that his daughter came and got him to look at a coyote on the hill behind their house. He is certain that he saw a cougar. He snapped a pict to those bino things. I looked at it and zoomed in until it got blurry and I am not for sure what it is. It is not a coyote that is for sure.

So here is my question he comes to me like what are you going to do about this it is your land? I offered to go up to the area where the picture was taken and see if I could cut a track. Problem being it has been very dry as of late. I also told him that I would set up a few trail camera's around to see if I could possibly catch a image. I understand that he has children and is concerned. I got me thinking I had my four kids out yesterday afternoon shed hunting and doing a little scouting for turkey season. The only thing I carried was a water bottle and a pocket knife. My kids are 2, 3, 8 and 9 years old.

Do I have some obligation to do more than I have offered to do? He acted like I am not taking him seriously enough. Well there only so much I can do for that matter. We argued a little bit and I asked what would he have me do tie a dead rabbit to a string and walk along saying here kitty kitty. Any thoughts on how I should handle this situation would be appreciated.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Tell your neighbor that if he and their family aren't on your land, then nothing on your land can harm them.

 

[jbkebert]

Well here is another problem with that. The house that he and his family live in was built by me. We sectioned off 40 acers of ground and broke that up into 5 acre tracts. I built that house lived in it for a couple years then built another where I live now. Currently planning a third house just waiting for the president to save us all. So basically except for the 5 acers he owns, I own everything around him.

 

[feudalson]

a mountion lion can have a pretty large rangle... remember to put your trail cameras low.. and not directly on game trails.. predators seem to not move directly on game trails due to scent... find a game trail and try setting up 15-20 yards off the trail... you may also want to check if in your state you can legally do anything ,,, meaning killing the threat ..

 

[TexasRedneck]

That's not your problem. If he's on his land and the cat shows up, he's free to do as he wishes. If it's on your land, then it presents no danger to him.
He's obviously city raised - country folks would just take care of business if they needed to, or at most alert you to the presence.

 

[kirkcdl]

That profile looks more like a bear than a cat or dog...I'm seeing the rounded butt,and size ratio between the neck and shoulder areas...

 

[twoclones]

I have to agree with TexasRedneck.

 

[Claude Clay]

finally--a picture of a jackalope

i am trying to understand how he comes to feel that a wild animal on your land becomes a ' you should do.....'
him being ex-city would explain a lot

 

[jbkebert]

finally--a picture of a jackalope

Love it,
Like I said I am not sure what the heck it is. Could of hopped for a better picture but I can't have everything I want. I think that every reasonable effort has been made on my part to investigate the matter. There have been more and more reported sightings in kansas over the last few years. Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks went from saying there is no cougars in the state of KS. To now saying there maybe some displaced male adolecent cougars roaming about but there are no breeding pairs in KS.

You are right he is a city guy and has never lived in the country before. He and his family wanted to get away from living in town. This place is only 20 miles outside of town but pretty open country. Roughly 18-19 homes in 2 square miles sometimes they get a little jumpy but have been good neighbors.

 

[SHvar]

Tail to short for a cat, build far to wrong for a cat, the build is wrong for a coyote. The picture could be any one of a few things distorted by the camera or the photographer.
It could be a bad picture of a large dog, a bad angle and picture of a horse, and many other things.
Ill bet your neighbor was watching "Monsterquest" in recent history.
There was a show about cats in video, and how when there is nothing to reference size around a stocky housecat you could mistake it for a jaguaar.
Thats not a cat. Id set your cameras, and show him what it really is. I wouldnt worry about your kids with wild cats, Id be more worried about someone elses domesticated dogs running loose around your kids, they are confident around people, therefore unlike wild animals, they dont fear us.

 

[BlayGlock]

Could be a chupacabra, however, they usually dont leave south texas.

Looks like a bear to me.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Well, I understand that my recommended response to this seems cold-hearted, but unless you nip it in the bud, you'll have this kinda stuff going on forever. You don't control wild animals, you're not the game warden - and frankly, ANYTHING on your property is none of his business. And unless it's a domesticated animal under your care and control you have zero responsibility for it.

And personally, I wouldn't do a single thing more - especially in regards to attempting to capture a better image, unless it would be for my own edification. If I did so, I'd not pass any further information on to the neighbor, again because it sends a signal to him that you are responsible in some way for wildlife activity...

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Whatever it is... Bear?

On YOUR land, YOUR problem. On HIS LAND HIS PROBLEM Savvy?

But if someone like a GUEST is on YOUR land that this thing shows up on... erf, we have business to settle fast.

City Folk dont always cotton to country ways. And I was one of those city folk in another life time.

That is a INTERESTING shot which begs a better examination.

If its a mountain cat (Not good...) it should follow the same trail every time more or less. If it's a Bear, watch out for mama and cubs. If its something else... well... we will find out one way or another.

But basic rule. Your land your problem. If this whatsitcatbearwolf etc crosses a propertyline ONTO another persons LAND it's on them =)

Pass the taters please... all of this makes appetite.

Looks to be like a pretty good shooting situation, problem is I dont see what is beyond that hill top on the other side.

 

[PT1911]

things like this frustrate me... I see no reasonable justification for you having any responsibility to "take care of this." if the photo intrugues you and you want to know more, then investigate, otherwise, unless you have some underground nursery for the animal in question, he is just going to have to get over it. I understand he is worried about his children,

looks like big-foot on all 4's to me..

 

[Six]

Assuming that he bought the house and land from you and isn't renting it, you don't have any obligation to protect his house or his family.

For the question of what are you going to do about it, as long as he can take a shot safely from his own land, I'd encourage a bit of self reliance:
"What I'm going to do about it is direct you to a decent gun store, and in the spirit of neighborly kindness I'll also give you permission to shoot predators you believe are a danger to you even if they're on my land."

 

[logical]

regardless of who's land it is on he needs to be told and understand that the animal, whatever it might be, is not a pet and not your responsibility. If it is a wild animal, it doesn't understand property lines.

 

[jbkebert]

For the question of what are you going to do about it, as long as he can take a shot safely from his own land, I'd encourage a bit of self reliance:
"What I'm going to do about it is direct you to a decent gun store, and in the spirit of neighborly kindness I'll also give you permission to shoot predators you believe are a danger to you even if they're on my land."

I like and dislike this idea. He indicated he wanted to borrow a rifle. Well that is not going to happen. I do not have any cattle in that direction behind him that is east and the cows are west. I am intrigued about the picture I would estimate that area at around 250 yards from his back door. I am going to set a couple cameras for my own interest. I have found a couple piles of scat that I could not readily identify the source. We have also noticed a decline in turkey population over the last year. we had two flocks with a combined total of around 75-80 birds. Last I saw I am counting roughly 50 total. They could of easily moved onto the other side of the fence to the neighbor to the north. I set up a large food plot that is protected 4 sides by fairly thick timber and it draws all sorts of critters.

 

[TexasRedneck]

"What I'm going to do about it is direct you to a decent gun store, and in the spirit of neighborly kindness I'll also give you permission to shoot predators you believe are a danger to you even if they're on my land."

Oh, HELL no!!! NEVER, EVER give that kind of blanket permission!!!!! Jumpin' Jehosephat, you are BEGGING for HUGE potential problems, especially for someone with the mindset of this neighbor! Six - PLEASE don't take this as a personal attack on you or your idea, it's not meant that way. I understand where you're coming from, and your intent.....but think it through - do you REALLY want to give someone permission to shoot ANYTHING on your land?

 

[Six]

Which is why I used "as long as", "from his land", and "predator you believe".

Obviously you don't want to give him a free license to hunt on your property, but if the predator sits 20 feet onto your land, he also wouldn't take the the shot without some form of understanding.

He's still responsible for his shots.

 

[TexasRedneck]

I understand Six - and thanks for not taking my comments wrong.

The bigger issue here is giving anyone access to my property for any purpose. I mean, friends - yeah - they can kill anything on there and I won't care. But someone with no direct ties to me, without a gun background, that thinks it's MY responsibility to control free-ranging wildlife......nah, it ain't gonna happen!

 

[woof]

I'm a cougarphile and a member of several active cougar organizations with conferences and such. A few points:

1. If it is a cougar it is a migrant, no doubt a young male, and just passing through. If you had anything near a breeding population in the area you would know it.

2. If it is a cougar it is no real threat if only because it is miles away and will not be back.

3. I would bet it is not a cougar.

There is no basis in the photo for size estimates. I see many many pictures like this and where they can be verified 95% turn out to have been housecats and that's what I think this is. I do think it is a cat although it could be a coyote or dog. By the way I have seen a cougar in the wild and found tracks in PA, MD and WV. I recommend you do put up the camera, you might get the same domestic cat. Check the area often for tracks and scat. Tell your neighbor you are doing this and after a few weeks when you find nothing he should calm down. Tell him at least one self-proclaimed expert says it's a domestic cat and that most such pics and videos are.

Another thing, the power of suggestion and the ability of the eyes to play tricks are both strong. We have all looked at this pic being told look - cougar. So it is easy to see cougar. But try wiping that out and look at the picture again and see housecat. it is easy to see housecat too.

 

[Six]

TexasRedneck, not at all, there's lots of possibility for legal liability or risk no matter what.

Consider the scenario though, the neighbor has a pretty small piece of land surrounded by the OPs. Neighbor takes a shot at a predator, hits it, but 5 seconds later it's on the OPs land. Now the neighbor can't take the shot, and the OP has got a wounded animal sitting on his land... Will the neighbor call to let him know he screwed up?

To the OP;
I'm not saying that a carte blance is needed, just maybe give him a heads up that it won't bother you if he technically violates your property line for this particular instance. The neighbor needs to do what needs to be done, but he also definitely needs to understand that it's not your job to hunt it down for him, and that he's responsible for whatever he does.


*shrugs* You know your neighbor, and your land. For all I know he might not know one end of a rifle from the other, or he might be dangerously reckless. This is posted in the legal forum but I think it's not really a legal question. The legal answer is "It's not your problem".
The strategic/tactical aspect is that both of you need to keep your families safe, if you indeed need to deal with a resident predator, then cooperating should be much more efficient.

 

[BADUNAME27]

Does this:



Remotely resemble this?: (Taken during 2008 not too far from my house)

 

[woof]

Even if it is a cougar there is no reason to shoot it. Just leave it alone. I'm comforted by the knowledge that it isn't a cougar and if it is it won't be back since everyone is so concerned about the legality of shooting not whether any shooting is even called for.

 

[jbkebert]

I am sorry if I posted in the wrong section mods's please move as you see fit. I don't want to give permission to take a shot. The area in question where this supposed sighting took place is about a 1/3 of a way up a hill side. From there very little risk of danger due to a shot. I just don't want him to see something on top of the hill and take a shot with a rifle or anything else for that matter. I do not know his experience concerning guns. I have heard him shoot on a rare occasion but he could have a buddy over and might just be plinking. Like you gus have said for all I know its a neighbors dog. From knowing the distance the picture was taken from that is not a house cat.

I appreciate the advice for all thanks.