What would past soldiers say? Veterans.

[buzz_knox]

If you want to call me an idiot, show why. Offering up nothing more than "that's stupid" is a cop out.

Tell the women and children that. I guess they don't count.

How does anything you've proposed make it less likely that they will be attacked? Russia had some serious restrictions on personal liberty, yet Beslan occurred.

But since you brought up women and children, don't they have the right to be free of being victims of sexual predators? Shouldn't reasonable restrictions include determining tracking porn site visitors, porn subscriptions. We can more easily track predators if there is a central database for DNA, so why don't you pony up your DNA? What's a little liberty in the face of the far greater danger than such predators pose to women and children than terrorists do?

[Edited to stay on the "high road"].

 

[Marshall]

I haven't called you stupid so settle down. I said the post was ignorant. If you equate them one in the same, that's your business.

How does anything you've proposed make it less likely that they will be attacked? Russia had some serious restrictions on personal liberty, yet Beslan occurred.

What exactly have I proposed other than questions in regard to dealing or not dealing with terrorism within our boarders? Please show me.

Less likely?
Is it safer to fly today, in terms of terrorism, than it was circa 9/11? I would think the answer would be yes, wouldn't it? If so, isn't that considered less likely?

But since you brought up women and children, don't they have the right to be free of being victims of sexual predators? Shouldn't reasonable restrictions include determining tracking porn site visitors, porn subscriptions. We can more easily track predators if there is a central database for DNA, so why don't you pony up your DNA? What's a little liberty in the face of the far greater danger than such predators pose to women and children than terrorists do?

Great point!

Do we already track rapist/sex offenders? Don't we go as far as to publish if any are in your neighborhood? We know that sex offenders are highly prone to rape and or kill again. But, once free from prison, have they paid their dues? Are they a free citizen again just like you and I? If not, should they be watched? Are we willing to let them blindly out of sight when we know the odds are as high as kite they will rape and or murder again? Or should they be imprisoned for life or should they be sentenced to death so it never becomes a problem? You tell me?

You all need to understand, I am playing a devils advocate role in this thread. Why? Because I struggle with these same issues and I don't have the answers. However, many on this forum say "do nothing". I have a tough moral time with that just as I have a tough time with the issue of our rights. I have a tough time convincing myself that as the months and years go by with the extreme likelihood of terror increasing by people invading our country, in addition to some already here, and using it's laws to protect them thus, that our rights will be any less jeopardized in the long run by doing nothing today.

You know, here's a can of worms.....LOL

Back in the good old times of no rights being infringed upon, you know, like the 1800's, the times before Bush. How many "bad guys" got run out of town by the all American sheriff? How many were gunned down to protect the towns people? Today we can't even call them a name without enduring three kinds of hell. I can think of a ton more examples where peoples rights were trampled in the good old days. But today, we can't touch anyone without a 10,000,000 laws suit being filed. Is it possible people have more rights in this area today than the good old days? Just a thought.

Here's one.........

Back in the days of Valley Forge, the real free days, if our forefathers had the technology to spy on the arch enemy from another country that had entered our country and, we knew they had intentions of killing us, would they use the technology? If they could listen in on their conversations, with a warrant issued, would they have done it in order to try gain evidence against the enemy? To try to learn their plan? To try to protect the people? I wonder if they would have turned down the ability and opportunity? Or would they go for gaining the advantage?

I dunno, I'm just rambling. Fire away.

 

[KC&97TA]

I've never gotten too into political debateing, but ... since I have 3 weeks left before leaveing for Iraq, again. I've already been wounded, by 2 IED's (road side bombs), a RPG, had more close calls with mortors and rockets, seen 14 of my buddys med-evac. Put one of my grunts in a bag, tossed in the back of a hummer and carried on the rest of the mission, and I consider my self blessed by God and a walking Ghost all in the same breath. I think I'll toss out $0.02 on the issue.

We're really smoke checking some bad men in this world. On the down side, we're looseing some of our own. I think General Matis had it right when he said, "... it's really fun to shoot men that have been slapping around women for the past 7 years..." I'd like to see more CIA, assassinations, take out the garbage before it piles up too deep, and you have to involve 130k US Military personel into a mission, that is the biggest pain in the ass to fight.

So if it takes to find out and spy on our own, means wire tapping my phone, or finding out what web sites I go to, so be it. As long as you don't take away; my Guns, my Wife, My dog, My Car or block the porn websites, and you're doing it to find BAD MEN, and you're getting results of catching BAD MEN, so be it. All in the name of saveing GOOD LIVES. And killing bad men, cause bad men must die, won't shoot into a crowd of women and children, but I'll chase them down the street and shoot them in the back. Amen

I think some people PUSH thier rights too far, and it seems the worst ones are from the HOLLY WOOD sector. Money + the need for attention causes these problems, look at Jane Fonda.

 

[psyopspec]

If we could poll the dead soldiers of war, how many would say that freedom from murderous terror of innocent civilians in the homeland of the USA is as important as protecting our rights? Not more important but at least as important.

I'm still alive, but others that became soldiers and veterans with me are not. However, the ones I knew took the same vow.

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Nothing more. Nothing less. Nothing else.

 

[Marshall]

KC&97TA,

Thank you for your service my friend! I'm indebted to you. God Bless.

 

[buzz_knox]

So if it takes to find out and spy on our own, means wire tapping my phone, or finding out what web sites I go to, so be it. As long as you don't take away; my Guns, my Wife, My dog, My Car or block the porn websites, and you're doing it to find BAD MEN, and you're getting results of catching BAD MEN, so be it. All in the name of saveing GOOD LIVES. And killing bad men, cause bad men must die, won't shoot into a crowd of women and children, but I'll chase them down the street and shoot them in the back. Amen

You do realize that to more than a few people in this country, having guns makes you a bad man. So, that means that the mechanisms you want in place to save "good lives" will someday be turned on you. But hey, if you're cool with the "do anything you want as long as you don't do it to me" that's fine. It's a victory for terrorism, but what the hey? You might think you're a little more safe . . . for a little while . . . until it's your turn on the chopping block.

As for pushing rights "too far," all the rights being asserted are those specifically enumerated in the Constitution you swore to defend. Nothing in the Constitution precludes us from taking out the bad guys, and we've done a great job of it of the years. But the Constitution does preclude violating that which makes this country free while taking them out. If we sacrifice the Constitution to do it, then the terrorists have won and your sacrifice and the sacrifice of millions before you will be for nothing.