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What's needed to go from a Series 80 to 70 on 1911?

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MarineTech

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Dec 24, 2002
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Presque Isle, ME US
Alright. I'm gun shopping again. I've wanted a Commander sized 1911 for a while now for carry and I've narrowed the choices down to the Para Ordnance LTC, or the Colt 1991 Commander (Steel). I am currently leaning towards the Colt. I'm not a big fan of the Series 80 firing pin safety though, and if possible, would like it gone.

What would I need to do, or what parts need to be replaced, to bring the gun back down to a plain Jane series 70 gun. I've already built one 1911 up from a Springfield Armory Mil-Spec, and I'm pretty confident in my abilities to do the required work.
 
Disassemble gun.
Reassemble slide without firing pin obstruction and spring; everything will work fine.
Reassemble frame without lawyer levers but with the Frame Slot Filler to keep the hammer and sear from shifting around.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=13121&s=

The gun will then of course go off by itself when breathed upon, unerringly shooting your brother in law, and you will find yourself explaining your actions to one of Johnnie Cochran's partners. Well, maybe not, mine hasn't, but that is the sort of advice you will get from Internet Experts.
 
80/70 Retro

It can't be done. Yes...You can do away with the lawyer parts, effectively making the gun function as a pre-Series 80, and it'll even accept the pre-80 parts...but the serial number still says that it's a Series 80, and willfully removing, altering, or disabling any designed-in safety won't likely win you any accolades in court should the gun be involved in a shooting...accidental or otherwise. Better to simply shop around and find a decent pre-80 pistol.
They're around.

And...While there are Series 80 Commanders...there is no such thing as a Series 70 Commander or Combat Commander. Never has been, no matter what the Serial prefix is. Here is my early pristine pre-80 Combat Commander...sans lawyer parts of any kind...complete with an "80" prefix.

CombatCommander2.jpg
 
I agree with Tuner. I have no use for the Colt Series 80's firing pin block, but if I carried or kept one for personal protection that gadget would remain in place. On a range gun it would be gone so fast it couldn't find its own shadow.

In a carry piece I want the fewest possible attorney and gamer gadgets, and there are plenty of guns (including Colt's) around that haven't been "lawyered up."

No one can nail me in a civil case for not having a safety device that was never there.
 
Me, too.
I ridicule the concept, and have heard very, very few actual cases, but the only time I would be likely to get in a shooting scrape with a gun having a safety device defeated would be if attacked on the way to or from the range. I seldom carry a defensive weapon in addition to the gun(s) I am going to shoot.
 
but the only time I would be likely to get in a shooting scrape with a gun having a safety device defeated would be if attacked on the way to or from the range.
Click to expand...

I could be in the same circumstances, but if so, and the shooting was justified, I could explain in court why I used what I did. Intentionally using a match gun for defensive carry is I think, poor judgment.
 
OK. Out of curiosity, just HOW many cases of self defense shootings are we all personally aware of where the defendant was found guilty of negligent homicide, murder, or manslaughter for modifying or removing a Series 80 passive firing pin block?

I know of 0, and after searching Google, Lycos, Alta Vista, and Ask.com, I've found 0. I have access to West Law at work and will search that as well.

Would the average DA even think to check a 1911 for a firing pin safety, especially in Maine where they are not mandatory? Would the average prosecutor even know what a firing pin safety was or looks like?

I could see it being an issue if the firearm was dropped and went off, killing someone, but not in a self defense case where the intention to use lethal force for self defense was decided and acted upon. Wouldn't it be even less of an issue if the Series 80 system was instead replaced with the other most common drop safety system consisting of a light firing pin and heavy firing pin spring?
 
OK. Out of curiosity, just HOW many cases of self defense shootings are we all personally aware of where the defendant was found guilty of negligent homicide, murder, or manslaughter for modifying or removing a Series 80 passive firing pin block?
Click to expand...

It's largely a moot point. Rather than turning to Google, it may be better to simply ask yourself if you can count on the DA or the civil litigator not discovering it...and if it is discovered...if you think it will help your case...or hurt it.

That said...The choice is yours. Roll the dice.
 
I'll chime in to add another angle!
My daily carry is a Colt 5" Government Series 80 1991-A1 with the firing pin safety intact.
I know how to tune, adjust, check and reassemble the firing pin safety. I trust it. Properly set-up it is of zero concern or notice.
When I build one for a customer, I insist on leaving it intact. In the case of an accidental discharge resulting in loss, I can prove in court that the gun discharged BECAUSE THE TRIGGER WAS PULLED.
:)
 
Series 80

Without a doubt, the Colt Series 80 system is far and away more reliable and fail-safe than the Swartz system...and when it's properly timed and operational...you'll never even know it's there unless you happen to nudge the trigger while reinstalling the slide. (The plunger lever will rise and stop the slide cold, and if you hit it too hard, you can damage the lever...for those unfamiliar with the system.)

That said...I believe in simple. I believe in Murphy. I believe that Murphy is everywhere, and the more gadgets it's got, the more "Murphy" it gets. None of my carry guns are Series 80 guns. The four Series 80s that I have are all range beaters, and all have the system disabled. Not because any of them ever gave me a problem...but just because reassembling the guns after detail stripping and cleaning is faster and less tedious. I shoot a lot of nasty ammo loaded with home-cast bullets. I have to tear'em down a minimum of once a month to clean out the accumulated cack. No. It's not a lot of difference in the time required...but I find that the older I get, the more precious my time is. An extra 15 minutes a month for four guns is nothing, but in a year it adds up to three hours...30 hours in 10 years. In the 15 years that I've been using these guns sans the lawyer parts, I've saved about 40-50 hours.

If I decided to start carrying one of the pistols, the parts would go back in.
 
Shucks, Ralph. If you'd just accept the fact that's actually MY pistol and bring it on back home...
Click to expand...

Are you sure you're not confused Johnny? I thought this was the beater that was going to be yours one day... :rolleyes:

230226970.gif

It has been "Tunerized" you know and goes bang each and every time :)
 
I emailed him a couple times. No response.

Ralph, your 5906 has almost stifled the little voice in my head that keeps trying to convince me I need another Commander. I mean, MY 5906.
 
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