My current favorite in the AR market is the Daniel Defense line, but I know there are a lot of folks that feel that Noveske is the best complete AR on the market. They certainly look to be great guns and the barrels seem above standard, but what is it that makes them so desirable? Are they worth the price? Also, if you own one, post a pic and your experience with it!
What's so special about Noveske?
- Thread starter M&PVolk
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In a nutshell you have some vendors like les Baer that sacrifice reliability for accuracy and a lot of others like colt that sacrifice accuracy for reliability. Noveske is one o a very few with a reputation for accuracy and reliability.
IMO, the Noveske barrels are what makes them desirable. Though, I'd prefer to buy the barrel and build my own.
Are they worth the price? Their barrels are. The complete rifle is debatable, but that's true with 99% of the "top tier" ARs. If you follow along you'll notice every 6 months to a year someone else becomes the "must have" AR. It was true for Bushmaster, RRA, Stag/CMT, then it was CMMG, Saber, now it's Daniel Defense, Noveske, Spikes, BCM and I'm sure it'll be someone else next go around. It never fails. Colt is probably the only one I'd pay a small premium for .
Are they worth the price? Their barrels are. The complete rifle is debatable, but that's true with 99% of the "top tier" ARs. If you follow along you'll notice every 6 months to a year someone else becomes the "must have" AR. It was true for Bushmaster, RRA, Stag/CMT, then it was CMMG, Saber, now it's Daniel Defense, Noveske, Spikes, BCM and I'm sure it'll be someone else next go around. It never fails. Colt is probably the only one I'd pay a small premium for .
Tommygunn
Member
IMHO ---
Noveske is certainly an excellent AR, as are others listed as "top tier."
Most of the important things that keep other ARs like Bushmaster, etc., from being top tier can be fixed fairly easily, such as staking the gas key nuts correctly or getting the right buffer and things like that.
However, if you want a top tier "out of the box" Noveske will certainly be that.
Noveske is certainly an excellent AR, as are others listed as "top tier."
Most of the important things that keep other ARs like Bushmaster, etc., from being top tier can be fixed fairly easily, such as staking the gas key nuts correctly or getting the right buffer and things like that.
However, if you want a top tier "out of the box" Noveske will certainly be that.
And returning e-mails or answering the phone if you have a question or problem. Something Noveske is very good at (more about the questions, since there seems to rarely be problems).
kwelz
Member
Noveske pays attention to detail. Their rifles are above the quality of even BCM, DD, Colt, etc. The only other manufacturer on the same level is Knights. Of course you pay for the quality but not as much as most people think.
A few of the things that make them better.
*Harder and thicker Chrome lining in the barrels.
*Use of better quality stocks, grips, etc on their retail rifles.
*More accurate barrels! A Noveske Chrome lined barrel will out shoot a Stainless steel barrel from any manufacturer I have seen.
Lets look at the comparison:
Here is a Noveske light carbine.
You are going to pay $1465.00 for the gun.
Now here is a Colt 6920. pretty much the standard.
For this you are paying $1250.00 Although I have seen them as low as $1100.00 some places.
And finally a Daniel Defense XV Carbine.
For this you are paying $1199.00. Once again I have seen them slightly cheaper but still over 1K.
You pay about 250 -350 more for a Noveske than you would for a Colt 6920 or similar gun. You get an Tango Down Grip, VLTOR Modstock, and an AAC blackout 51T Flash hider
That stuff alone is worth a couple hundred bucks. So the premium you are really paying is only about $150 depending on the gun you are comparing it against.
Now I am sure someone will come in and say "But I can get a DPMS for 850.00". That is fine if you want a range gun. Noveske are not meant to be light use range guns.
A few of the things that make them better.
*Harder and thicker Chrome lining in the barrels.
*Use of better quality stocks, grips, etc on their retail rifles.
*More accurate barrels! A Noveske Chrome lined barrel will out shoot a Stainless steel barrel from any manufacturer I have seen.
Lets look at the comparison:
Here is a Noveske light carbine.
You are going to pay $1465.00 for the gun.
Now here is a Colt 6920. pretty much the standard.
For this you are paying $1250.00 Although I have seen them as low as $1100.00 some places.
And finally a Daniel Defense XV Carbine.
For this you are paying $1199.00. Once again I have seen them slightly cheaper but still over 1K.
You pay about 250 -350 more for a Noveske than you would for a Colt 6920 or similar gun. You get an Tango Down Grip, VLTOR Modstock, and an AAC blackout 51T Flash hider
That stuff alone is worth a couple hundred bucks. So the premium you are really paying is only about $150 depending on the gun you are comparing it against.
Now I am sure someone will come in and say "But I can get a DPMS for 850.00". That is fine if you want a range gun. Noveske are not meant to be light use range guns.
SpeedAKL
Member
There's a saying out there that I first heard when talking about 1911 pistols. You can make it run reliably for a certain price. You can make it accurate for a similar price. Want both at once? That will cost something else.
Noveske commands a premium because they can deliver a very accurate rifle with outstanding fit and finish that will also run very well under hard use. I recently traded up for one, and yes they are expensive, but IMHO they are worth it if you need a "do it all" AR-15. I've been exceptionally pleased so far.
Keep in mind that performance costs money and the further up the performance ladder you go, each marginal increase in performance demands a greater marginal increase in cost. This is true with cars, guns, TVs, fighter jets, or most any manufactured good.
Noveske commands a premium because they can deliver a very accurate rifle with outstanding fit and finish that will also run very well under hard use. I recently traded up for one, and yes they are expensive, but IMHO they are worth it if you need a "do it all" AR-15. I've been exceptionally pleased so far.
Keep in mind that performance costs money and the further up the performance ladder you go, each marginal increase in performance demands a greater marginal increase in cost. This is true with cars, guns, TVs, fighter jets, or most any manufactured good.
Noveskes are very nice. Their chrome lined barrels are accurate for what they are. I believe they are using barrels from Pac-Nor. I wouldn't go so far as to say that they are as accurate as any stainless barrel, because it isn't true. I know this for a fact.
What you are paying for with a Noveske is detail in assembly, quality parts and the name. If you don't think that you're paying for the name, you're fooling yourself. To be honest, I've handled and shot Noveskes. I really couldn't tell you what's so special about them when compared to a Daniel Defense or a Spike's or Bravo Company, except that if you put it on a sandbag it will shoot a bit more accurately. The double chrome lining doesn't mean anything in a practical sense and the nice stocks and handguards and such can be added to any rifle.
If you don't build or work on your own ARs, those buying Noveskes can spend the money and rest assured that they got a quality rifle that will shoot better than most.
My ARs are pieces/parts guns and have seen/will see many thousands of rounds and I've never had any trouble.
If someone offered to give me one, I'd take it with a smile on my face. If someone offered me the money to buy a Noveske, I'd take it and go buy two of Spike's rifles. As a practical matter, I just don't see how the difference between shooting 1.5MOA and shooting 1MOA can be worth all of that money. If it's that important to you, you can take a Spike's, upgrade the barrel and have a more accurate rifle that is still dependable.
As for the Noveske out shooting any stainless barrel, if you show me a Noveske chrome lined barrel that can shoot a 1/2 MOA group, I'll buy it right now.
What you are paying for with a Noveske is detail in assembly, quality parts and the name. If you don't think that you're paying for the name, you're fooling yourself. To be honest, I've handled and shot Noveskes. I really couldn't tell you what's so special about them when compared to a Daniel Defense or a Spike's or Bravo Company, except that if you put it on a sandbag it will shoot a bit more accurately. The double chrome lining doesn't mean anything in a practical sense and the nice stocks and handguards and such can be added to any rifle.
If you don't build or work on your own ARs, those buying Noveskes can spend the money and rest assured that they got a quality rifle that will shoot better than most.
My ARs are pieces/parts guns and have seen/will see many thousands of rounds and I've never had any trouble.
If someone offered to give me one, I'd take it with a smile on my face. If someone offered me the money to buy a Noveske, I'd take it and go buy two of Spike's rifles. As a practical matter, I just don't see how the difference between shooting 1.5MOA and shooting 1MOA can be worth all of that money. If it's that important to you, you can take a Spike's, upgrade the barrel and have a more accurate rifle that is still dependable.
As for the Noveske out shooting any stainless barrel, if you show me a Noveske chrome lined barrel that can shoot a 1/2 MOA group, I'll buy it right now.
SpeedAKL
Member
M&P,
I have a N4 Stainess SPR. Noveske offers two barrel lines - the double-chrome-lined Light series and the match-grade Stainless series. I believe they source the stainless barrels from PacNor. I actually havent' shot for groups yet with match ammo. If I had to run a wild guess, based on other accuracy results I've seen on the web and on the SPR probably being the most accurate gun in Noveske's lineup based on specification, I'd say between 0.5 and 1 MOA would be reasonable. I'll have to get some Federal GMM and find out. I'm currently saving up for a decent variable-mag recce-style optic.
I have a N4 Stainess SPR. Noveske offers two barrel lines - the double-chrome-lined Light series and the match-grade Stainless series. I believe they source the stainless barrels from PacNor. I actually havent' shot for groups yet with match ammo. If I had to run a wild guess, based on other accuracy results I've seen on the web and on the SPR probably being the most accurate gun in Noveske's lineup based on specification, I'd say between 0.5 and 1 MOA would be reasonable. I'll have to get some Federal GMM and find out. I'm currently saving up for a decent variable-mag recce-style optic.
Z-Michigan
Member
Much truth in this statement. Those of us who got into ARs when the federal AWB was in place and seemed permanent may remember that "ABC" was the top quality - Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt. Olympic Arms also existed then, and I'm not sure if anyone else made AR-15s in commercial quantities.
Since then, Colt and Bushmaster have pretty much remained where they are, and Armalite is much neglected even though its already excellent quality has improved in several significant ways over the last 5 years. But all three of the "ABC" are now getting a lot less attention considering the newer companies that have made excellent, new reputations. This is just a phenomenon of marketing and social factors in a group, I think - which is not to say that any of the quoted list aren't excellent rifles (the first four may be "very good" rather than excellent).
FlyinBryan
Member
i dont think hes trying to imply that they are as accurate as a stainless target barrel, just that they cost more because they are indeed very accurate for a chrome lined barrel.
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