What's the deal with benchrest shooters?

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I got back into shooting a few months ago.

I've always wanted a Winchester 94, so I bought one. I asked one of the guys at work that shoots (a benchrester) where the local range was. He asked me what kind of rifle I had; when I told him a .30-30 he told me he'd tell me where the range was when I bought a rifle worthy of the range he goes to (100 out to 1000yards), and to go lob my bullets somewhere else. :banghead:

I told him I'd send for my 03A3 if that was the case, then I was told that the 2 groove barrel it has isn't conducive to accuracy.

So I shoot my Winchester at an indoor 25 yard range, yay. One of the other guys at work told me about a 100 yard range in the area. I just haven't had the chance to get out there.
 
Not Just for Shooters Anymore

It's not just benchrest shooters. As a matter of fact, it's not just shooters at all. Any hobby or leisure pursuit, especially ones like the shooting sports that involve the aquisition and use of expensive equipment, where the sky is the limit, has great potential to breed this kind of behavior. Equipment snobs are everywhere. I have been an amateur photographer fo almost 45 years, have owned a trailer full of expensive equipment, and spent countless hours in the darkroom in that time. But let me show up with my little point an shoot digital where some Ansel Adams wannabe is toteing an enormous phall... er telephoto in his hand and his nose goes straight up like I don't know an F stop from the F word. Mostly, I just ignore people like that. I know what I can do with a camera ( and a rifle ), and frankly, they just don't matter much.
 
Morty76 said...
I was told that the 2 groove barrel it has isn't conducive to accuracy.
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Tell him to go to the 500 yard line and pull butts for you from the top of the berm. Then you can show him how "condusive to accuracy" it is.

This reminds me of a motorcycle/car axiom. "I'd rather ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow." or "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow." I know I would rather take an under $500 firearm that isn't supposed to be a 1km tack driver and get a decent group at 200-300, than dump $10k or better into what amounts to an expensive remote hole-punch.

Gear Whores and Techno Weenies are everywhere. F em.

Don't get me wrong, One of the nicest guys I have met at the range is a BR shooter. I think Benchrest shooting is peachy keen, (might do it when a fat chunk of cash falls into my lap,) but sometimes they turn the doghouse into the snobhouse.
 
Try to look at this from a different angle. If I was around a bunch of guys that all were formula one racers...they wouldn't think much of my ride...at all. Bench shooters are the kind of guys that wring out the very highest level possable of accuracy for their equipment. They do stuff I'll never achieve. But, maybe they can't hit with a shotgun. Or maybe they can't put five of twenty in a six inch circle at fifty feet with a pistol. So let anybody sneer that wants to...they just hurt themselves. If you're getting reasonable groups shooting offhand, or the other "positions", you are doing well. Thats the kind of shooting I'm most impressed with. I hunt...and I've never found a bench where I hunt. :D Keep shooting, have FUN, and ignore the ones that distract you from enjoying our sport...life is just too short for that! All that said...I think I'll go shoot tomorrow. I've got a .22 I want to try, off hand, fifty yds, just for fun!
Mark.
 
I got chewed out for making too much noise with my M1 shooting a few lanes down from a heavy weight benchrester shooting 300 Magnums. My barrel was too short he said.
 
Don't get me wrong, One of the nicest guys I have met at the range is a BR shooter.

Yeah same here - in fact several years ago I pulled up to the residence of a "local" BR shooter I never met before , introduced myself to him and he allowed me to shoot a group with his wife's rifle , showed me his reloading setup , explained his sport and basically made me feel very welcome.

There are horse's rears to be found in all walks of life and in all types of shooting disciplines. Fortunately most of the shooters at my range - even though we are diversified - get along quite well.
 
No, their equipment does stuff you'll never achieve. They just buy it. Anyone can do that.

So anyone can just buy the equipment and become immediately proficient? You are saying that if YOU bought the equipment YOU would be competitive today? If that is the case then novice BR shooters and veterans should be pretty much equal.
 
I only shoot highpower rifle competitively, and by the sounds of it (yes, I haven't dabbled in other competitive shooting forms, so I might be wrong), I'm blessed with shooting with some of the finest human beings out there. Folks who will trip over themselves to help you out, be it loaning gear or giving you tips before, during and after a match, to see that you do well and have a good time.

Kinda sucks, we're all shooters, regardless of whether it's the guy with a $3K benchrest rifle putting one bullet after another into paper or the guy a couple stalls down from him plinking with his .30-30. United we stand, divided we fall.
 
Y'know, it occurs to me that the much-ballyhooed "crabbiness" on the part of benchrest shooters might -- just might, mind you -- be the result of a bunch of unpleasant encounters some of these guys have had with the rest of us.

Think about it.

Would you like it if you were working on fast draw & fires at the range, and the guy next to you obviously thought you were a poor shooter because your target wasn't just one ragged hole? You may have been working on speed, not accuracy, but that doesn't mean his attitude was any less annoying.

Would you like it if you were working slowfire distant shots with your handgun, and the guy next to you sneered at you because your shots were inappropriate for self-defense? You may have been practicing on paper for the next sillhouette match, but that doesn't mean the other guy's attitude didn't get under your skin.

Would you like it if you were practicing for IPSC, and one of the guys on the range made fun of you because you had equipment appropriate for that discipline, and not for his own? Unlikely -- again, the guy's attitude is going to grate on you even if you have no interest in doing his kind of shooting.

So whyinhell would you expect the benchrest guys to react with friendly smiles to folks who come onto the range and sneer at them because they aren't shooting the same discipline as the other guys on the line?

My experience is that most folks give what they get. If you think the benchrest guys at your club aren't giving you friendly enough responses when you encounter them, maybe it's because the other shooters at your club have sneered the friendliness right out of them.

pax

You'll find the people here the same, the wise man said. -- E. Markham
 
I think most of us have a problem with the nose in the air arrogance some and I do mean some BR shoots have. You just have to let it go and consider the person your dealing with. Thank God my gun club is full of all types of shooters. There aren't many BR guys but all forms of Shotgun, rifle and pistol shooters. We have silhouette pistol and rifle as well as combat pistol and rifle as well a sniper shoots plus paint ball, Archery and for the rich guys we even have a Full Auto range. :D I use to belong to two clubs with that attitude toward people that shot different disciplines then the status quot. I don't belong there anymore I spend my money where I'm welcome and happy shooting.
 
"I also suspect there are some fine people out there who shoot benchrest."

There certainly are, and not just the ones I run into locally - and I've never completed in a benchrest match.

Some time back I made a half-hearted plea on br.com for a (just discontinued) Jewell trigger for a Finnfire. I got an e-mail from a stranger telling me to call a number because somebody knew somebody that had one. Okay, I called. Got the man's wife at first and it was dinnertime in their time zone. Oops. Come to find out I'd reached an extremely well known Hall of Fame BR shooter and gunsmith. If I'd had the name to go with the phone number I'd have been too awestruck to call and bother him. Anyway, I gave him my name and number and he said he'd pass it on.

A bit later I got a call from a man getting out of rimfire BR. He agreed to take a personal check and then went and sent the 2 Jewells BEFORE he got my $400+ check.

Come to find out, these folks are just like that.

But then again, I get along with most everybody. ;)

John
 
I'm sick of the dismissive glances when they see my target
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I'm curious if you've ever discussed this with them, or if that is simply your perception of what they may be thinking after seeing your target?

I've noticed that most of the intra-sport "rivalry" is more legend than reality (fueled by a good measure of the above). Sure, Trap and Skeet shooters razz each other, and everyone razzes HP and their white shooting coats (ascots), but that's part of the fun. If you've encountered a group of true asshat shooters, I think we should alert the press, because they are the exception, not the rule.

One other comment Why the heck do you care what they think? Are YOU happy with your performance? If so, move along, nothing to see here.
 
In any hobby or pastime, you're always going to have equipment snobs out there.

I'm lucky. I have yet to find a benchrest shooter who has snobbishly put me down, even when I'm hammering away with a full-auto (and yes, I do shoot benchrest now and then when I can motivated to reload enough ammo).

I owe a lot of my precision reloading knowledge to the generosity of many quality benchrest shooters. I've become a much better shooter (and hunter!) because of knowledge passed on by benchrest shooters.

Actually, most of the disdain I see from the snob gallery is focused on what they call "slob" shooters who spray and pray their semiauto battle rifles without consideration as to where the bullets are going (and I've been guilty of doing that :D ). Some of this is (perhaps understandably) based on safety concerns, or maybe they just don't like the distraction of an uncontrolled rapid fire string while they wait for their barrel to cool down so that they can make one perfect shot.

I can see how a superiority mentality might arise from the personalities of a few who would want to control every ballistic variable from the ground up, starting with meticulously loaded ammo and very expensive custom rifle(s). Come to think of it, maybe benchrest shooters are control freaks. ;)
 
The whole deal with benchrest is precision. That's precision in the primers, the cases, the powder charge and the bullets. It's having everything "just so" in the rifle, whether bedding or trued bolt-face or whatever. To be competitive, one must be nit-picky in EVERY detail.

You can buy all the topnotch gear in the world, but if you don't know how to use it PROPERLY, shame on your happy rear.

I've done the IPSC thing. It was fun. I've shot skeet and trap. Same. Sporting Clays is a hoot. I work over my hunting rifles and tailor the loads for maximum accuracy--because it's quite enjoyable.

I like to sit on my back porch and shoot pistols, just plinking. Everything from antique stuff to the quite modern, thank you. And sometimes I go down to my "real range" and work on various self-defense drills.

I don't care what sport you can think of, you'll find mostly good guys and a few horse's patoots. That's just people. I've never judged any variety within a sport by a few grumpy curmudgeons.

Shooting is shooting. If somebody's happy doing their own thing, I ain't about to rain on their parade...

:), Art
 
Well, I probably know a few of the folks you don't like, and I think they're some of the finest folks around.

Here's the truth. If your rifle is not accurate, it isn't accurate. And no amount of "hey, I held it up and waved it around and painted it black" is going to make it accurate.

And I was at Knob Creek, not TN - that was Rich...
 
Heh.

The guys at FETC (my usual haunt) have gotten used to me coming in and doing something more or less random every few minutes. One minute I'll be working my CZ .22 at 100m, seated with my elbows on the bench...and the next I'll be banging out ten-round strings from my SKS at 7yd as quickly as I can.

Joyful ruckus.

If you ask me, if you're not being an ass, I couldn't care less how you're shooting (note that "being an ass" includes "not being safe"), so long as you're not punching my target by accident. The more the merrier. :)
 
In a nutshell, benchrest shooters are the nerds of the shooting community.

That sounds like a slam, but it isn't really intended as one. The world needs people who are picky and neurotic and obsessed with minutiae and details the rest of us couldn't care less about, or can't be bothered with.

Unfortunately, a direct consequence of being a nerd is a pronounced and often dramatic lack of social skills - which means that while I'm glad the nerds are around, I'm probably not going to invite any of them over for dinner and a beer.
 
Interesting thread, I haven't witnessed any snobery by the BR crowd. Some people are more approachable than others. Maybe timeing is the key, he may have a new rifle and has chosen this wind free morning to find out if his rifle will shoot screamers, (sub .100) or it may be just another, ho-hum BR Rifle.You may want to consider the thought process going on in a bench rest shooters mind, he has a $1000.00 action, a $500.00 barrel, a $700.00 kevlar stock, a $250.00 jewel trigger, a $1000.00 scope on a new BR rifle, he is into small groups. He needs to shoot before the wind comes up, he, like most people has a limited amount of time, his wind flags are up, he makes final adjustments, just as he's ready someone calls a cease fire, he looks down range and someone has shot a $100.00 wind flag, he has to be in the office in 30 minutes, lots of examples of why he has a disgusted look on his face, besided it takes super concentration to shoot good bench rest. And just for the record, it takes far more than superb equipment to consistantly shoot those little bitty tiny groups!
 
Very well put, xring44.

All the benchresters I've met have gone out of their way to help me and any other newbie who has showed up at their matches to see if the sport has any appeal for them (the newbies) personally. The BR crowd seems to me to be like most shooters in that they offer a great deal of encouragement to potential new shooters as they want to see their sport grow.

Rick
 
I have been told by Highpower shooters that I would never be able to compete if I didn't have "the coat, the glove, the spotting scope, the modern rifle ( I shoot a NM M1 Garand in 308). I shoot wearing an issue USMC shooting coat, a spotting scope my wife gave me, a light leather glove, and the rifle mentioned above. I tell them that I compete against myself, and I generally win! Some understand, many don't. I really don't care.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas
 
They are not the good ones

20% of the human race are idiots. Trust me, I know because I think I have met most of them. But they are absolutely worth ignoring.
Anyway, I'm 67 and for half of my time at the range I'm firing a 64 year old military rifle at 200 yards with open sights. And I get a respectable target, not great mind you, but I'm happy. What the heck, at my age I'm lucky to even see a target at that range.
So whenever someone has a comment such as "Using buckshot?" I simply hand them the rifle and a box of shells and say, "Go to it genius, show the old dude how to do it." in a very loud voice.
You know, no one has taken my offer yet. They leave, I laugh and then call my buddy when I get home, so he can get a good laugh too.
The bench guys that are truly good shots would come over to offer you help if they thought you had a problem, or if you asked them for help. It is only the "almost" good that snicker, and they are fun to ignore because it drives them up the walls.:)
 
XRING44, frankly my dear...I don't give a damn! Who gives a flying F how much money or how much available time some snotty bitch guy that is attempting to group sub what ever! The guy standing at the end of the line, like Monty76, with his Winchester 94 trying to hit a 4' target at 100yds his FIRST TIME out, is more important to our future as rifleman/woman to pursue our hobbies. The snubbing attitude that prevails from some of the benchrest guys is just abhorent. Just last week I took out my new 1895M (450 Marlin) to the 100 yard range for it's new try out. Fortunately there was some kind of benchrest better than thou guy next to me. I was shooting "freestanding" like I would if I was hunting. After a few shots, the br yells at me that I should sit down or go to a different range since my gun is too loud and I am all over the target anyways. As he is trying to tell me how unskilled I am, I accidently took two shots that took the target legs out from under his target at 100 yards! His target crashed back and to the left and he turned red... I apologized, it must of been the wind drift. He started getting huffy, you know the type, and I had to tell him quitely to his ear...that if he attempts to stand up, I would have to rip his head off and crap down his neck. We got along much better then.
 
My experience with BR shooters has been the exact opposite. The group I met (Pennsylvania Ironmen Score Shooters) were very friendly, and more than willing to share information and equipment. I think you get what you give in most interactions. BR shooters get alot of the "it all their fancy equipment, I could do that easily" which simply isant true. Just like any shooting discipline, you have to be a helluva shooter to win.
 
Oh you have to be kidding? ha ha ha

go to a different range since my gun is too loud
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Your rifle is too loud for a rifle range. Now that is funny. You should have asked to borrow his BB gun. Hmmm, maybe it's 21% idiots?
 
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