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What's with Springfield using Brazilian frames?

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SP2000,

I see you slept through your geography in school or you would know Brazil is in America...South America.

Old Dog has it right.

Why are you bashing a company that has been in business for 40 years, is one of the largest firearms companies in the world and a major active ally in fighting against gun control laws?

Seems to me you should determine who are on gun owners side before you kick sand in their face.
 
To me, the little sticker on the back of the box that says "Made in USA" is absolutely critically important.

That's why I put one of those stickers on everything I buy. :neener:

C'mon guys. Lighten up and have some fun with it. If you don't like a 1911 that isn't from the USA, simply don't buy one. It's really pretty simple. There are plenty of options.
 
Unfortunately the not made in the USA part is what makes some of theses guns affordable. I wonder how much Springfield 1911's cost in Brazil
 
I guess I just don't look for ideological purity in my guns. If I did I wouldn't have any guns.
 
While I'd love to own an original Springfield Armory 1911, they're kind of pricey and sort of old with poor heat treatment compared to todays metallurgical processing, so I'm more than ok settling with an IMBEL made version with the -A1 added to it's moniker for the price point difference and shootability (? probably not a real word?). Those boys in South America can build a nice firearm when they have a mind to.

Same goes with my SAR-48, but heck, I even like my PT-99 and Norinco Model of the 1911-A1. Then again, I knew where these were made when I bought them and enjoy them none-the-less. Maybe more so in a perverse fashion.

I'm cheap. What can I say? Just trying to stimulate a small part of the world economy, one firearm at a time. :D

Besides, Springfield Armory has great customer service and a pretty nice custom shop to add to the "mfg. out of state?" equation and soften the "not made here" blow, should that ever be needed or desired.

And look what they've done with those HS2000s. Goodness me.
 
Springfield pulled a marketing coup when the bought the rights to that name. Before I bought my stainless Milspec in 1993, I assumed it was from the original U.S. armory, then when I looked closely at it, and saw "Brazil" on the frame, I asked the gun store guy, whom I trusted. He said they were good guns, and guys were buying them to build up Bullseye guns, so I bought it anyway. It turned out to be a good purchase.
 
Originally posted by bannockburn:
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My Springfield Armory M1911-A1, acquired new in 1988, was manufactured in Brazil and assembled here in the U.S. I believe the retail price was somewhere around $279 and at the time it seemed like a real bargain, compared to what Colt Governments were going for (that is if you could find them). Fit and finish were first rate, the gun itself was nice and tight with close tolerances, and it had a decent trigger right out of the box.

When I got it my first intention was to eventually have it customized by a leading M1911 gunsmith with all the bells and whistles. But the more I used it the more I came to appreciate it for its reliability and performance in its original stock configuration. So I left it as is and still continue to enjoy it just the way it came from Springfield Armory.
__________________

I bought a couple of Springfield GI 1911's back in the mid 80's. They came in a plastic bag, as a "kit", and sold for $250. They were "the best" Springfields Ive owned, and Ive owned quite a few. They were also the only Springfields I owned that closely followed GI/Colt specs. Everything beyond, was all over the place.

If you look closely at the frame, especially the radius on the dust cover, and the radius of the front strap, and the gap between where the radius ends and the edge of the grip, you'll see what I mean.

Now compare it to the Springfield in SP2000's pic. See how boxy the dust cover is, and how the front strap isnt radiused properly, and the gap between the grip and radius has grown.

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The feel in your hand just between later Springfields and earlier guns, is quite dramatic. The "reach" fore and aft feels off and considerably longer.

Many of the later guns, will not fit in kydex holsters adjusted for a GI/Colt gun at all, and often wont fit properly molded leather holsters as well. That boxy dust cover, with the sharp, squared off corners, tears up leather holsters something terrible too.

To make matters worse, those frame dimensions vary widely, even in the same run of guns.

Here are a couple of my last Springfields along with a Colt GM for comparison.

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The two on top are the Springfields. They were "GI" models Springfield brought out in the late 90's, and were bought about a week apart, and are only a couple of hundred numbers apart in the serial number range. If you look closely, you can see quite a difference in the frames.
 
astra600 said:
I have a CZ made in Czechoslovakia and one made in the Czech Republic. I wonder which one is better.......... I bought them both here, in the USA.


Actually they're from the same place.

In '93 the Czech and the Slovaks split up into seperate countries. They had always been seperate nations but usually under the rule of one empire or another. They were combined into one country after WWI when the allies were carving up the Austian empire. After the fall of the Soviet empire which controlled them after WWII they agreed to peacefully seperate into the Czech Republic and Slovakia.
 
Taking into account all of the above....... SA has great customer service. I ask and they respond. Great company to deal with.
 
Taking into account all of the above....... SA has great customer service.
Thats great and all, and you hear it a lot in their defense, but I really prefer the companies who have customer service departments who nobody has heard of, because you dont have to call them. ;)
 
So far, SIG and HK havent needed any calls, and in 25+ years, Glock only once. ;)

I had Springfield on speed dial there for awhile.
 
"I have a CZ made in Czechoslovakia and one made in the Czech Republic."

I know two waitresses at the beach, one a little older than the other. If asked, one will answer that she is from Czechoslovakia and the other will say the CR.

They're from the same town.

SA using Brazilian frames is common knowledge that's been discussed on every internet gun forum since the last century. There was a big article in Shooting Times or somesuch magazine 14 or 15 years ago
 
Springfield Armory, Inc. didn't have to "buy the rights" to the name; the U.S. government never protected the name Springfield Armory, so SA, Inc. just took it. They started by making semi-auto M14 clones (they still do) and AFAIK made the receivers in the U.S. by casting (the original government arms were forged) and using M14 surplus parts. They were reasonably good guns and mine has been fine. The surplus parts are long gone, and I don't know if those guns are still made here, but they have other guns made all over.

The U.S. government rarely trademarks anything, so companies like "Rock Island" can use the name of that government arsenal. There is nothing to prevent a company from calling itself "The White House", and some do. I suppose the government could sue if a company went too far, AFAIK that has never happened.

BTW, yes, the original government Springfield Armory did make some 25,000 M1911 pistols, 1912-1914; part of the contract with Colt allowed the government to make its own pistols on the Colt/Browning patents. The government factory was not a contractor; it was owned by the Army and made guns as ordered by the Chief of Ordnance.

Jim
 
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I am new to 1911s and have looked around a bit. Caspian has it's slides and frames cast in the U.S.A., I believe by Pine Tree Castings. I am not sure where the small parts are made.
 
The M1A's also seem to have been affected by fluctuating specs.

My 80's-90's era M1A's were great guns. My last, a SOCOM, which was "all" Springfield, had a lot of issues, and was a constant problem, and could not be disassembled for cleaning with out a small screwdriver.
 
Have we reached any kind of consensus in this thread? Is the prevailing opinion that it matters not that SA components come from ... gasp! -- Brazil?

If there are QC issues by certain gun companies that may import portions or all parts for their firearms from a certain South American country -- it would certainly seem that these QC issues are right here in the good ol' USA, at the companies headquarters in Illinois or Florida where the guns are assembled and inspected.

I've only owned about 20 SA 1911s since 1991 to the present, so perhaps I'm not as qualified as some here to comment on the state of this company's products, but I've always had a good one, and only contacted the CS to order stuff or plan custom work -- as I suspect most SA customers do.

As far as this remark:
So far, SIG and HK havent needed any calls, and in 25+ years, Glock only once
Well, good for you, but I know many who've had issues with recent production SIGs (including myself) and there's a good reason that every LE agency in this country that once had a contract for HK pistols has since dumped 'em.
 
...there's a good reason that every LE agency in this country that once had a contract for HK pistols has since dumped 'em.
Yeah, price.

The reason that S&W was dumped for Glocks, and Glocks are now being dumped for S&W.
 
This one is done. There isn't anything that needs to be said that hasn't been said in the preceding four pages. The horse is dead, y'all.
 
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