Wheelgun versus auto: state your case!
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Mastrogiacomo
Member
Pistols all the way:
Less recoil
Easy to conceal
Easy to use
They hold more bullets
Reliable
More accurate
Not as loud -- revolvers are as loud as Hell
Cheaper ammo for longer range time
Prettier -- at least my Berettas are
No jams or malfunctions
Easier trigger pull without custom work
More comfortable to carry
Shoots more accurately at a distance
Price
Easy on the hands
Faster to reload...etc. etc.
Less recoil
Easy to conceal
Easy to use
They hold more bullets
Reliable
More accurate
Not as loud -- revolvers are as loud as Hell
Cheaper ammo for longer range time
Prettier -- at least my Berettas are
No jams or malfunctions
Easier trigger pull without custom work
More comfortable to carry
Shoots more accurately at a distance
Price
Easy on the hands
Faster to reload...etc. etc.
Handy -
Sure, it's not a good idea to drop anything, but it happens--you've heard of Murphy, haven't you. Believe me, if I'm ever in a situation where I have to reload with someone shooting at me ol' Murphy's working overtime. Sure, "actually, dropping stuff you depend on in general is not so good," but then, can you guarantee it will never happen?
BTW, I proposed a scenario for you a few posts back you sort of ducked. My question remains: Which do you choose and why (addressing primarily the revolver's "theoretical" advantage in reliability)?
Actually, it was very much a revolver vs. auto issue. What was dropped was the magazine--not the weapon. It's kind of hard to drop revolver magazine. The magazine failed--not the weaon. Sure you could "what if" this death, but the point remains is the magazine is the automatics's greatest weakness as well as its greatest strength.
Sure, it's not a good idea to drop anything, but it happens--you've heard of Murphy, haven't you. Believe me, if I'm ever in a situation where I have to reload with someone shooting at me ol' Murphy's working overtime. Sure, "actually, dropping stuff you depend on in general is not so good," but then, can you guarantee it will never happen?
BTW, I proposed a scenario for you a few posts back you sort of ducked. My question remains: Which do you choose and why (addressing primarily the revolver's "theoretical" advantage in reliability)?
H
Handy
Guest
Dobe,
My comment was mainly directed at Jc2.
Jc2,
I don't understand where you are coming from. There is nothing fundamentally "droppable" about a magazine. Many autos won't even drop the mag fully when the release is actuated (and it must be actuated).
Considering the hand switching technique used to reload DA revolvers, you are just as, or more likely to drop your revolver as you are to drop your magazine. And in either case, sand will bind up the dropped device. How is that different?
If anything, you make a case for the auto. Few carry multiple revolvers, but there might be a spare mag or two.
Add this to the list of topics that are identical between revolvers and autos: neither tolerate sand.
My comment was mainly directed at Jc2.
Jc2,
I don't understand where you are coming from. There is nothing fundamentally "droppable" about a magazine. Many autos won't even drop the mag fully when the release is actuated (and it must be actuated).
Considering the hand switching technique used to reload DA revolvers, you are just as, or more likely to drop your revolver as you are to drop your magazine. And in either case, sand will bind up the dropped device. How is that different?
If anything, you make a case for the auto. Few carry multiple revolvers, but there might be a spare mag or two.
Add this to the list of topics that are identical between revolvers and autos: neither tolerate sand.
Charles S
Member
All broad arguments aside.
For me it is simply:
I am faster to the first shot from a concealed holster with my auto than with my revolver - 1.22 to 1.45 sec.
My split times are faster with the auto than my revolver with the same level of accuracy - 0.55 to .85 sec.
My reloads are faster .98 sec to 3.1 sec auto to revolver.
The auto is more slim and easier to conceal.
The guns have the same failure rate. 3 failures in 4800 rounds auto and 2 failures in 3000 rounds with the revolver. All failures are ammo related (failure of the primer to fire in more than one gun).
This is just my personal experience.
I really like revolvers and would be happy to go back to a revolver as my primary carry gun. I just have found a great auto that fits me well, is accurate and I really like to shoot it and carry it.
Charles
For me it is simply:
I am faster to the first shot from a concealed holster with my auto than with my revolver - 1.22 to 1.45 sec.
My split times are faster with the auto than my revolver with the same level of accuracy - 0.55 to .85 sec.
My reloads are faster .98 sec to 3.1 sec auto to revolver.
The auto is more slim and easier to conceal.
The guns have the same failure rate. 3 failures in 4800 rounds auto and 2 failures in 3000 rounds with the revolver. All failures are ammo related (failure of the primer to fire in more than one gun).
This is just my personal experience.
I really like revolvers and would be happy to go back to a revolver as my primary carry gun. I just have found a great auto that fits me well, is accurate and I really like to shoot it and carry it.
Charles
Guess what, all guns work poorly with sand in them. It pays not to drop the gun, loading devices or ammo in sand.
Actually, dropping stuff you depend on in general: not so good.
So this wasn't much of a revolver vs. auto question at all, was it?
END
I agree in this area. I live in a very sandy and cold area and all guns will fail here depending on maintnence. I even had my AK fail to feed here because of the sand. Its true you should avoid dropping your weapon. Using dry lube or minimal lubercation can keep your guns running better in the sand however. I would say revolvers are more tolerant of sand at first. But once the sand gets in the revolvers action its hard to get it out.
PAT
Actually, dropping stuff you depend on in general: not so good.
So this wasn't much of a revolver vs. auto question at all, was it?
END
I agree in this area. I live in a very sandy and cold area and all guns will fail here depending on maintnence. I even had my AK fail to feed here because of the sand. Its true you should avoid dropping your weapon. Using dry lube or minimal lubercation can keep your guns running better in the sand however. I would say revolvers are more tolerant of sand at first. But once the sand gets in the revolvers action its hard to get it out.
PAT
Penforhire
Member
I'd like to see more people chime in with failure rate numbers as seen a few posts above. That is the only nagging doubt that gnaws at my auto confidence.
I've get malfunctions somewhere between 1-in-500 and 1-in-1,000 rounds in my P99 (mostly 124 gr bullets). Most recent was a stovepipe by my girlfriend, who might have limp-wristed. I fully admit these were ALL with various cheap loads (Olympic, Wolf, Lawman, std. Federal, etc) never with a Hydrashock / Cor-Bon / etc. load. I have not fired enough of these "good" rounds to know they work better with any certainty (0% failure in a few hundred rounds of good stuff means litttle to me).
Those of you with confidence, inspire us with your statistics.
I've get malfunctions somewhere between 1-in-500 and 1-in-1,000 rounds in my P99 (mostly 124 gr bullets). Most recent was a stovepipe by my girlfriend, who might have limp-wristed. I fully admit these were ALL with various cheap loads (Olympic, Wolf, Lawman, std. Federal, etc) never with a Hydrashock / Cor-Bon / etc. load. I have not fired enough of these "good" rounds to know they work better with any certainty (0% failure in a few hundred rounds of good stuff means litttle to me).
Those of you with confidence, inspire us with your statistics.
I fully admit as an auto fan that revolvers are not ammo dependant for reliability. In that sence they are more versatile if you want to beable to shoot paper with light loads and small game, use medium power loads for defence and full house loads for hunting.
For pure self defence against people this versatility is not as much of an issue. Because you should be practicing with loads simular in power to your carry loads. Your should also carry quality ammo. Don't judge your carry gun by its reliability with crap ammo. Judge it by its reliability with good ammo. Realy crappy ammo without a good crimp could stop a revolver cold too. But it does not prove much other than the ammo was crap.
PAT
For pure self defence against people this versatility is not as much of an issue. Because you should be practicing with loads simular in power to your carry loads. Your should also carry quality ammo. Don't judge your carry gun by its reliability with crap ammo. Judge it by its reliability with good ammo. Realy crappy ammo without a good crimp could stop a revolver cold too. But it does not prove much other than the ammo was crap.
PAT
H
Handy
Guest
Penforhire,
Several pages ago I opinioned that it can't be an about ALL autos, just the ones that work well.
I have two HK's that have never even pretended to jam. Never cycled funny, never threw the brass in any direction but one. I don't know what it would take to jam them.
That's a reliable auto. That doesn't mean that all autos, or even most, would work like that. But my experience with those two leads me to believe that an auto CAN be just as trustworthy as a revolver.
Several pages ago I opinioned that it can't be an about ALL autos, just the ones that work well.
I have two HK's that have never even pretended to jam. Never cycled funny, never threw the brass in any direction but one. I don't know what it would take to jam them.
That's a reliable auto. That doesn't mean that all autos, or even most, would work like that. But my experience with those two leads me to believe that an auto CAN be just as trustworthy as a revolver.
Gerald McDonald
Member
The one you train with. Doesnt matter whether its a wheel gun or auto.
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