Which .22 is more accurate in the 100 yards to 200 yard range?

[Hybrid-x]

Aloha Cthulhufan,

Yeah, many pros but many cons to living in paradise.

Thanks, I think for my needs I will go with the scope with a little extra frills only because I know I can set it and not mess with it till I need to start messing with it. It will be a good way to be prepared for the future. Then I don't have to upgrade scopes later down the road.

Yeah, whenever someone mentions accuracy a bolt action always comes to mind. Figured I'd give it a go. Not to mention it will slow me down between shots so that I can take my time and really aim.

I will post my rig as soon as I get it! I am so excited I just want to go and buy and stop all this research!

Aloha Manny,

Thanks for the heads up. I think I will be going with a Nikkon Buckmaster 4.5-14x40 with parallax adjustment. A couple people have recommended Nikkon saying they are cheaper for better quality. Not to mention they have some of these scopes at Sports Authority!

Aloha D2wing,

Thanks for the insight. I will be shooting at farther distances hopefully, but it is interesting to know there is a 5 inch drop at just 50 yards of difference. I will have to look at a trajectory drop chart.

Aloha Robtattoo,

Nice shooting. I was contemplating a lever action, but I kept getting these cowboy images in my head. Not a very good image for what I am trying to do. Well at least riding on a horse and shooting at Indians who are riding on horses too. Hahaha! My mind is a mysterious place. If I were going to get a lever action I definitely think it would be a higher cal for hunting.

Aloha Clayne b,

Thanks for the insight and nice groupings. So far it seems that both rifles are equally accurate and that it all comes down to personal preference. I think because I am leaning towards the BTVS, unless someone can show me a big flaw like back customer service, I will be going with the BTVS.

Aloha Skylerbone,

Thanks for the advice. I think I will be getting the more costly scope off the bat. Aside from trying to shoot out to 300/400 yards if I ever upgrade rifles, I will have a scope ready to go.

Aloha Goon,

I am very excited to get my hands on my first rifle and to start shooting. There are not many places aside from the range to shoot here so backyard shooting isn't going to happen. I definitely think wind will be a major issue as there are some pretty nice breezes near the shooting range. (Koko head shooting range) It is right next to the ocean. I look forward to learning how to compensate for wind and hitting targets at great distances (relative to a .22 rifle).

Aloha Aiko492,

Come on down to Hawaii and get a drink! Beaches are great here, but funny thing is not everyone who lives here goes to the beaches. I have a friend who has NEVER been to a beach (into the water or on the sand) since he has move here and he has been here for over 7 years. Surprising I know.

Thanks everyone for your inputs.

Have a great evening.

Mahalo,

Matt

 

[redneck2]

FWIW....there's a high end Zeiss scope listed in the "Accessories" classified here now. 3x9x36 IIRC. That would be a FINE scope. Good price for a Zeiss. Put "scope" in the search box and you'll find it. Might be underpowered for target work at 200 yards. For me, something up to 20x with a fine reticle would work. There's a reason benchrest guys use 36x at 100 yards. You can only shoot as well as you can see.

I have a Varmint CZ. Just took it out last week-end for the first time. Had a variety of moderate to high end ammo. Shoots plain old Blaser just as well as some of the really high end stuff. 1/2" at fifty yards was not uncommon.

It has the single set trigger. REALLY nice for target work.

My scope is a 2x7. Heavy reticle mainly for hunting. Gonna change it out.

 

[Slamfire]

I shot once in a 200 yard .22LR rimfire match. It took 24 MOA of elevation to go from 100 yards to 200 yards, that is 48" of bullet drop. In comparision, it takes about 24 MOA of elevation for a 308 from 600 yards to 1000 yards.

I know how wind senstive a .22LR is at 100 yards, it is going to be even more so at 200 yards.

 

[TonyAngel]

Man, you are in for some fun shooting that .22, which ever one you get. What sort of shooting are you planning on doing? Shooting for groups or engaging multiple targets?

Although I can't speak as a general matter, I can make a few comments about CZ and Savage bolts actions. Me and my group of shooting buddies buy, try and sell a LOT of rimfire rifles. One of us will buy one, we'll all play around with it, see what it will do and one of us will either keep it, or it gets sold.

From what I've seen, CZs and Savages are about neck and neck with regard to shooting groups, but when engaging multiple targets taking one shot on each, the Savages have been more consistent. Our method of testing is usually at 50 yards using ARA targets.

Whatever you get, both are good though. Just get one and start shooting. We have lots of fun shooting at stuff like ping pong balls and paint balls at 100 yards and clay pigeons at 200 and beyond. Personally, I shoot a 10/22 that I done a good bit of work on and it shoots at least as well as any Savage or CZ that I've shot, but my buddy shoots a Savage TR and it shoots good.

My play ammo of choice has been CCI Standard Velocity. At about $2.50 a box of 50, it's hard to beat.

 

[d2wing]

Aloha, have fun.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

A few months ago, I was in the same position you were in! I ended up with a CZ 452 Trainer, as that is what my LGS had at the time, and I thought it felt better than the Savage.

The deciding factor for me was the quality of each firearm, as both are exceptionally accurate. To me, the CZ is of higher quality than the Savage in terms of "fit and finish". It feels like a "real" rifle, and is something I am sure I will be able to hand down to my kids.

One thing about the CZ Trainer that is nice, is that it has FANTASTIC iron sights. They are pre-calibrated for 25-200m, with half-ticks in between for yards. I know you said you will be purchasing a scope, but since this is your first rifle, you might appreciate the added challenge/option for irons when you are in the mood.

Just yesterday, I went to the range for some .22 fun. With the standard open sights I was able to ring a 6" square steel plate at 200 yards, using CCI Mini Mags and CCI Blazer ammo (the blazer stuff shoots surprisingly well, at least for me ). Hitting clays at the same distance from a rest was slightly more challenging, but managed to hit them by the third or fourth shot.

I also had the opportunity to shoot a slightly modded Savage MKII (with the threaded bbl). It had a Boyds Tacticool stock, Harris Bipod, and a Vortex 6-18x40something on it, and had a little more difficulty hitting the steel than the CZ. However, this is probably because it didn't like the ammo. As a side note, I nearly confused it for its bigger brother, the Savage 10.

The point is, go to your LGS and choose whichever one "feels" best to you. Maybe there is something about the Savage you like more, or perhaps you like the option of iron sights.

Good luck!
- TNG

 

[22-rimfire]

Either rifle would be a good choice. I would probably choose the CZ first and down the road get a Savage. Sounds dumb, but that is about the way I do things. Get a pretty good scope. I have used the Mueller APV 4.5-14x with some success. Some use much higher powered scopes on their rimfires for bench shooting.

Down the road when you know more about your needs, you might consider a better scope with target turrets. The advantage here is adjusting the settings for different ranges rather than holding high to make a shot. They are made to adjust frequently. You can ruin a less expensive scope by adjusting it up and down a lot if it is not made for that.

The only other rifles I might consider over the ones you mentioned are ones made by Anshutz and the Remington 547. I have a Savage Mark II Classic and I really like it.

Parallax is important. Get an AO scope.

 

[IsaacCarlson]

I am not sure how you shoot "accurately" at a target that is 2'x2'....
I am sure you will be happy with a CZ. I have shot both, and the CZ gets my vote in all departments. That is why I bought a CZ 455. I have not shot at 400 yards, but I have shot at 300. I can keep 10 shots on a 3.5"x4" plate at that distance with my 455 on a good day. Not sure how big the group would be at 400, but it should be well under 2'. That said, my rifle is not stock. I have done some bolt work, trigger work, and installed pillars. The trigger breaks at 8 oz with no creep. I have been using a bipod lately and like it. If I want the very best, I roll up my shirt and rest it on that. The softer the better.

You will want a higher power scope to shoot at longer ranges. Seeing the target is not enough, you need to see the spot on the target that you want to hit. I use a Hawke 8.5-25x42 and it works well. I use fully adjustable bases set to 26 moa so I can dial to 300 yards.

 

[Skylerbone]

I am not sure how you shoot "accurately" at a target that is 2'x2'....

That was kind of my point with the sub-$100 rifle story. That's more commendable at 400 than the original 100-200 question, thus the suggestion of a truly lopsided purchase with the lion's share spent on the scope.

I doubt my $50 Bushnell could dial up the necessary elevation but I bet that cheap old Marlin could ring that size plate. I've got a 4-16X AO Hawke without a home, I might just have to have a little fun this month...

 

[IsaacCarlson]

I just got my Hawke set up. Now I need to get the turret tape on it.

 

[Hybrid-x]

Aloha Everyone,

Thank you very much with all of your input. I have decided to go with the Savage Mark II BTVS and a Nikkon Buckmaster 4.5-14 x 40 scope. I hope it is a good setup but we will see when I start shooting. I will post some pictures when I get it. By chance, does anyone know if the scope will just mount onto the rifle or will I have to purchase something to get it to mount. Sorry for a stupid question, but like I said from the start I am completely new to it all.

Aloha CJ 74,

Very nice shooting. I will be getting the Nikkon Buckmaster 4.5-14x40, I have read some great reviews on it and it is available at the local Sports Authority. I does have the parallax correction so I am hoping it makes a difference. Thanks for your input and help.

Aloha Redneck2,

Thank you very much for your insight. I will see what I can do with the BTVS that I have ordered. I hope it compares to the CZ like a lot of people has said.

Aloha Slamfire1,

That is very interesting. 48" of drop correction. How do you adjust the MOA? Is it built into the scope? Will I have to purchase something aside from the scope to get the MOA adjusted?

Aloha TonyAngel,

Thank you for the comparison. I will be mainly shooting groups, but my main focus will be to push the limits of the rifle and myself. I like to challenge myself with things and figured shooting would be a good area to put some new goals out there. Maybe a 400 yard goal with a grouping of a foot or something? I am not sure what a good group at 400 yards would be for a .22. I noticed some people don't think hitting a 2' x 2' plate at 400 yards with a .22 is a major accomplishment. I thought that was a feat on its own to be able to shoot to that range with enough precision that you can hit what your aiming at with a .22. I know for fact it takes skill to be able to read the wind and adjust for it and at 400 yards I would expect a lot of variation due to wind. Either way, I would like to push the limits to as far as I can. If i can hit a 2' x 2' plate at 450 yards even better! It's what I would like to do and I'm going to do it.

Aloha D2Wing,

I will definitely have fun! Take care!

Aloha The Next Generation,

As far as which I like the looks of better, I like the look of the Savage BTVS a little better. There arn't any LGS that carry the BTVS so I figured I would go by what reviews others had on the different rifles. Hawaii is very limited. It is not possible to drive to a neighboring state and look around! Hahaha! The price for paradise. I am definitely looking forward to holding the rifle in my own arms though!

Aloha 22-rimfire,

Thank you very much for the advice. I will be getting the BTVS off the start and see what I can do. Anshutz is a bit too pricey for me. I am not looking to spend $1,500.00 on a .22 currently. Maybe if I really got into competitive shooting I may consider it.

Aloha IsaacCarlson,

I figured if it is 400 yards away and you are shooting with a .22 and aiming at the plate and are able to hit it each time you shoot that was being pretty accurate. Everyone has told me the limits of a .22 is 100 yards and people were getting 0.5" groupings and that was considered accurate. If you move out to 200 yards the drop of the bullet is 48" and wind starts playing a major factor. doubling that distance would be a whole lot of drop and a whole lot more affect from the wind. I think being able to read everything take it in and adjust your aim to hit something at 400 yards every time with a .22 is a huge feat and would take a lot of skill. My goal is to become good enough to do so. I have never really shot before so I am not sure what size target is too big for what distances, but if a more likely grouping of 5"x5" at 400 yards was possible, that is what I will try for. I am all for a good challenge.

I need to find out more about this MOA thing. A lot of people are talking about it but I have no clue as to what it is aside from it presets your scope to look downwards to compensate for high values of drop so that the scope adjustments will still reach what your shooting at. I need to find out how to adjust it.

What is turret tape? Hahaha I am such a greenie!

Aloha Skylerbone,

I have never shot before and don't know what size targets or groupings I should be shooting. It was one of the only video on youtube that I could find of someone shooting that distance and it said it was a 2' x 2' plate in the description. I figured I would give it a try.

Thank you all for your help and I look forward to hearing more from you all. I will post pictures when it comes in.

have a great day, and safe and happy shooting to you all.

Mahalo,

Matt

 

[Skylerbone]

Here's an explanation of MOA: http://riflestocks.tripod.com/moa.html

Ok. The rifle will require mounts and rings for scope usage. The mounts will screw into pre-drilled holes in the rifle and will commonly have either cross-slots (Weaver or Picatinny) or dovetails for the rings to mount to. Some have MOA "built-in", that is they are slanted to allow for longer range shooting. Keep in mind that they will limit usage at shorter distances.

The rings are a two-piece design that clamp around the scope's tube. They will need to be the same diameter as the scope tube, generally 1" or 30mm (2 most common).

About your scope choice: keep in mind that the Buckmaster series will come with hunting reticles. These are not optimized for precision target shooting but rather thicker for easy identification in dense cover. You may wish to look for a fine plex or target dot scope from Weaver or Sightron. Both offer decent glass at a reasonable price.

Hope that helps.

 

[Hybrid-x]

Aloha Skylerbone,

The link for the MOA explanation was great. Thanks. I looked at the Weaver and Sightron scopes, but to tell you the truth, a lot of the stuff they have on there doesn't mean much to me. All I see are dollar signs. I am not saying that what I see is not important I am just saying I don't understand what they are talking about. Which scopes out of Weaver and Sightron would you recommend. I am looking in the $300-$400 range. That would would include the mounts and rings.

Thanks for your help, it has been very informative.

Aloha CJ 74,

Do you agree with Skylerbone regarding scopes? I think he is saying the cross hairs are thicker on the Buckmaster scopes and will hinder precision shooting because it wont point to where the hole will show up as well.

I still think shooting from a 400 yard distance is amazing and will work to get to that point.

If anyone else has some opinions on optics please let me know as that was the next thing I was going to purchase.

Thanks for all your help.

Mahalo,

Matt

 

[Skylerbone]

Matt, if you need a visual on crosshair decisions give this a try: find two straws/popsicle sticks/pencils and tape them to represent the reticle. Now taking a small saucer or plate lay the crosshairs on top and center things up. This will represent your close range sight picture. Now take the plate and set it against a wall on edge. Walk across the room with your crosshairs and hold them up to sight in the plate again. Note that very little if any of the plate is now visible. Picture what that same plate would look like if your crosshairs were two pieces of thread instead.

As for suggestions, a Weaver V Series 4-16X 42 AO will run about $300. A Sightron SII 6-24X 42 is slightly higher, $430. Fixed power scopes might be another option to consider as they tend to cost less and be a bit more rugged.

For inexpensive mounts I like Burris for their steel construction but there are better options (which of course cost more). Warne would be another excellent inexpensive option.

 

[Snakepit]

When it comes to fun with a .22 my friends and I have a great time. We shoot at skeet & trap target clays placed on the 200 yd berm at our gun club. It can be a real challenge espically with the effect that the wind has on a .22 at that distance. It helps if the berm is dry so that it is easy to see the impact dust cloud in the dirt around the clay so you can make your adjustments. Get the scope adjusted as good as you can and then rely on making visual corrections. It really helps if you have a mil-dot scope to make these quick visual corrections. Even a slight breeze is cause for constantly making corrections and on a windy day it is a real challenge. I have several .22's I use but my favorite is my Ruger 10/22 with a Bull Barrel. It has a Bushnell 6-24x40 mil-dot scope. I had to put a EGW 20 MOA base on it because I ran out of elevation adjustment at 200 yds. With the 20 MOA base I am back to center crosshairs on target with plenty of elevation correction left over. The clays are cheap, costing about $4.90 for a box of 90. A cheap way to have a lot of fun and a break from shooting long range with my Savage 12 F/TR .308 and my Rem 700 .300 Mag

 

[The_Next_Generation]

After reading a few of your responses, I would go with the CZ. They are of very high-quality, and you will be proud to own one!

Someone mentioned that to mount a scope there will be holes drilled and tapped (threaded) for scope mounts. This is not true with all rifles. My CZ452 Trainer has an 11mm Dovetail rail. So to mount a scope, I could've bought the special 11mm compatible rings. Instead, I bought a pair of BKL Technologies 11mm to Picatinny/Weaver adapters, then mounted a pair of SWFA 30mm (low) rings on top of those to accommodate my SWFA 16x42 scope. I like the BKL adapters because I can see underneath them, and use those amazing iron sights I was talking about earlier.

A note about the scope: I have tested it to have about 90MOA of adjustment in each direction. I almost wish that I had gotten a 20MOA canted base instead of the BKL adapter (like this: http://www.opticsplanet.net/evolution-gun-works-hd-cz-452-picatinny-rail-scope-mount.html) But $80 may be too spendy for some.

I would recommend a mil-dot reticle. This way, when/if you run out of adjustment range on your scope, you can still use the mil-dots to compensate for bullet drop and wind drift. They can also be used for range estimation (a fun and useful thing to learn!)
Here is a great website explaining anything and everything about mil-dots:
http://www.mil-dot.com/

Here are a few pictures of my setup:



11mm rail to Picatinny rail adapter and SWFA low ring



Sight picture underneath adapters



Slider- adjustable rear sight and scope clearance



Ain't she a beaut'?

- TNG

 

[IsaacCarlson]

A turret tape is a label you put on the turret/elevation adjustment so you can easily select your zero range. It is marked in yards or meters and is for your rifle with your ammo of choice because they are all different. You will have to shoot at different ranges to get your trajectory plotted. All you have to do once your label is in place is laser the target and turn the dial to the range on the laser, figure your wind, and.....BANG. Dead critter.

It beats the heck out of trying to remember minutes and all that. It is like setting your oven. The recipe says 350, turn the dial to 350. Just like that.
I'll stop rambling now and just give you a picture....