Which caliber for AR?

[rangerruck]

chrome lined is gonna last many shots more with accuracy, also , they should be more uniform, and easier to clean. Just read an article on 6br i think showing the dif between a chrome line bbl, and not. the chrome lined bbl, shot accurately for an extra 1000 to 1500 rounds, but once their accuracy started to ball off, it nosedived faster than non chrome lined. But this is not so much a worry to comp shooters anyway, as most of those dudes proly as a rule of thumb , change out their bbls every 1500 rounds, or less.

 

[Kimber1911_06238]

dpms has all sorts of calibers.....like .243 and .260 rem, just to name a few. give those a look

 

[jem375]

DPMS also makes ar's in 243 and 260 if interested... the vast majority of shooters will never shoot enough to wear out a non-chromed barrel...if you were shooting fully auto or live in a very humid climate, sure then think about an chrome lined barrel. My SS barrel cleans just as easily as a chrome barrel anyway and non-chromed barrels are more accurate although the average shooter will not tell the difference...

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Just so I'm better informed about what I've got, what's the downside of not having a chrome lined barrel?

A chrome-lined barrel generally has more reliable extraction when dirty and hot. The barrel is also a bit more maintenance free; though it is arguable if it makes a practical difference if you practice regular maintenance and don't live in an extremely humid or saltwater environment.

And the dremeliing of their feedramps. Is that bad?

It isn't all of their feedramps, just the extended feed ramps. I don't even know if they still do that; but usually extended feed ramps are part of the forging on an M4 upper receiver. For a time, RRA was going in with a Dremel or similar tool and changing the normal forged feed ramps into extended M4 feed ramps by cutting into the lower. This cuts through the protective anodizing of the receiver and it also looks ugly; but other than that I haven't heard of any problems with it and they weren't the only ones doing that. If it has been done to yours, it will be obvious.

Overall, RRA makes a very nice rifle; but every manufacturer puts out the occasional lemon. Generally the manufacturers without military contracts tend to put out more lemons than those who have to meet military standards. However, with most AR manufacturers you have a better chance of getting a good quality rifle than you do a lemon.

A problem with the lower tier manufacturers who lack contracts is that when there is a 1999 "End of the world" frenzy of buying (or a "Here come the gun-banners 2007 frenzy") they tend to focus more on getting rifles out the door and less on getting them out correctly. The manufacturers with contracts have a steady income and are generally very methodical on QC; but that security also tends to make them less responsive to customers and less concerned about getting product out to their "secondary" market - and that means higher prices for that product.

 

[Damn the Man]

I think my A4 has a moly chrome barrel. That's not chrome lined?

Is the point about accuracy for more shots about in one round of shooting, or over the life of the barrel, or both?

Will I have to break it in through some process?

Are these mags expensive like the ones for .308? Are they universal, or do the manufacturers have separate ones for each co.?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I think my A4 has a moly chrome barrel. That's not chrome lined?

No, chrome-moly refers to the type of steel used in the barrel.

Is the point about accuracy for more shots about in one round of shooting, or over the life of the barrel, or both?

Chrome-lining often (but not always) loses a little accuracy because it is difficult to deposit the chrome-lining evenly. Depending on how good the barrel was to begin with and how good the chrome-lining process was, this might mean slightly larger groups. The chrome-lined barrels will usually resist heat and throat erosion better and have a longer lifespan.

Will I have to break it in through some process?

Do some searches on "barrel break in" and you will get both sides of that controversy.

Are these mags expensive like the ones for .308? Are they universal, or do the manufacturers have separate ones for each co.?

Depends on which caliber you are considering. Some use proprietary mags, some use proprietary modifications of USGI mags, some use regular STANAG USGI mags.

 

[Damn the Man]

Thanks for the tutorial. I'm new to the AR world. This RRA will be my first. I don't want to ruin the barrel by not breaking it in. DPMS has a protocal, so I was asking if they all did, or just them. Mine will be an A4 in .223. I know the 308's have a break in procedure, but what about these?

The question I had about mags came up because when I was looking at 308's they seemed expensive, and different manufacturers had specific mags. Is it like that in the .223 world too? The DPMS LR 308 mags started at like 35. Seemed steep. And the gun was reported as a tempermental match gun, not so much a battle rifle, so I shyed away till I can learn more about the whole platform, ya know?

 

[Nhsport]

I believe you will be happy with your 5.56 choice. Every thing else is really special purpose and some have special needs but 5.56 is a great first gun.
May I sugest a Ceiner (rimfire conversion) to go along with it? The ability to use the Ceiner is one of the big selling points of the 5.56 AR

 

[rkh]

I'm surprised the 6.8 hasn't gotten more love on this thread. It is superior to the 223 as a defensive cartridge, and has the backing of some major industry players. Although it may never see military service, the 6.8 is not going to disappear anytime soon.

My next AR is likely going to be a LWCR piston unit chambered in 6.8.

If you aren't already invested in the .223, seriously consider the more modern alternatives. The 6.8 was designed to perform well in carbine-length barrels, and is relatively inexpensive to reload (uses common .270 caliber bullets). On the other hand, the 6.5 Grendel is awesome if long range, long barreled ARs are your bag. Unfortunately, it's much pricier and and I don't have access to a >200m range.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The question I had about mags came up because when I was looking at 308's they seemed expensive, and different manufacturers had specific mags. Is it like that in the .223 world too?

No. For the most part a USGI/NATO STANAG magazine will work in any manufacturer's .223 AR15. Some brands will occasionally have magwells that are a bit tight or out of spec and some polymer mags don't always run well in every AR; but generally you are OK.

Since an AR15 uses any magazine that meets the NATO Standardization Agreement for 5.56mm mags, it also means that there are lots of mags out there and they are cheap. You should be able to find them for $12-18 with no problem (and occasionally even cheaper).

 

[Reginhild]

First -
YOU NEED TO CLARIFY YOUR INTENDED USE!

If you want to hunt deer with it and you live in a state that does not allow .223 for deer hunting then.......you'd be stupid to get a .223/5.56.

Here's my recommendations:

1. General plinking, SHTF massive amounts of ammo, competition use and varmint hunting - .223
. Reason: nothing beats cheap .223 ammo and it can be very accurate. Find info anywhere.

2. Hunting medium game, competition use, long range shooting - 6.5mm Grendel
. Reason: Widest variety of medium game bullets loadable in AR magazine length without severly degrading velocity, 500 ft-lbs at 900 meters, all production rifles can shoot 1/2 MOA or better with factory ammo. Find info at Wikipedia - the online encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5_Grendel

3. Hunting big game, cracking engine blocks - .50 Beowulf
. Reason: Most popular and widest availability of the big bores for AR15, proven capability and reliability (note: some collapsable stocks can't stand the recoil). Find info at Wikipedia - the online encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50_Beowulf

4. Self-defense or military anti-personnel use alone - 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel
. Reason: a) the 6.8 SPC was designed to penetrate 1" and then massively fragment using Remington 115gr OTM and Hornady 115gr OTM ammo - great for anti-personnel but not so great for hunting - you can get 110gr and 115gr SP and TSX ammo that is good for hunting but there are no other bullet weight selections in factory loads for hunting, the heavier bullets impinge too much on powder capacity - cheapest ammo is $0.75 per round so not SHTF unless you have $$$$$$. b) 6.5 Grendel will massively fragment after 2" penetration when using Black Hills 123gr ammo - $1.00 per round - same SHTF comment as above - you can go with Wolf Gold 6.5 Grendel ammo at $0.50 per round in the self-defense role but expect more hunting round style performance.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

I'm surprised the 6.8 hasn't gotten more love on this thread. It is superior to the 223 as a defensive cartridge, and has the backing of some major industry players. Although it may never see military service, the 6.8 is not going to disappear anytime soon.

Most guys here disagree with this.

Although they MAY think the 6.8 is a decent round, it's cost, availability, and lack of parts make it very unreasonable for most... and make finding affordable ammo for their 5.56 AR-15's seem easy in comparison.

The 6.8 just isn't a very logical choice for most of us... and won't be unless a major military picks it up as their standard round (which is doubtful to even happen).

 

[rkh]

Most guys here disagree with this.

Although they MAY think the 6.8 is a decent round, it's cost, availability, and lack of parts make it very unreasonable for most... and make finding affordable ammo for their 5.56 AR-15's seem easy in comparison.

The 6.8 just isn't a very logical choice for most of us... and won't be unless a major military picks it up as their standard round (which is doubtful to even happen).

The price difference isn't as big as you make it sound. Lake City 5.56 factory seconds are selling for 40 cents a round nowadays. Cheap, brass cased 223 appears to have dried up.

Silver State 6.8 is in the 65 cent/round range, and you might not find it at Wallyworld. But, if you don't object to shopping online you can find the components to load it yourself for about 21 cents/round.

 

[hounddog]

I currently own 5 ar type rifles. Love them all, all for different purposes. One to play (223) Two for hunting (223 varmit 50 beowulf, anything). One in a pistol config 223, and one in 7.62x39, which I haven't figured out what to do with. Ammo costs do figure in to what I shoot. I love the beowulf, but at $1.35 a rd, not a whole lot of ammo going down range. But with the recoil, even if ammo was free, would not send many down range.

For those wanting "Mill spec," you can have it. A 4" group at 100 yds is not quite what I am looking for.

 

[heypete]

I agree with those who said that .223/5.56mm is a good cartridge. I'd recommend it simply due to availability of ammo (it's widely available, made by numerous companies, easy to find brass for, and easy to reload) and accessories.

I can go to any gun shop and get .223 AR magazines. I can't go to any shop and get other calibers. .223 bolts, bolt carriers, and accessories are cheap and plentiful.

Ammo's relatively cheap for centerfire rounds, and .223-->.22LR conversions exist and require minimal work. That cuts your per-round cost to even less.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

A 4" group at 100 yds is not quite what I am looking for.

That's the minimum requirement for a milspec weapon (or at least for the M16) IIRC.

That said, I've never seen an off the rack plain jane AR15 that couldn't do at least 2-3" MOA with military ammo.

And you can still get the equivalent of milspec parts and gear and still improve your accuracy on top of that...

 

[js]

1,000rds is a far shot from getting a good feeling from a rifle especially an ar-15 type. the differences between these ar's; the typical shooter will not see and will not need,if you shoot it here and there then it won't make a difference to you.

alot of guns will go 1000rds with out a problem: that happens on a daily basis. that is not a good measure of a great rifle.

Well, I'll give you an update after I reach the 5,000 mark. I put 300 more rounds through it this weekend, so I'm a little closer.

mike torre said = FWIW..
RRA is not mil-spec, and cannot hold dimensions like the
biggest AR manufacturers.

Mike

and that's ok with me... I'm not out in the middle of the desert shooting insurgents or terrorist on a daily basis... If I were, I would maybe want something different. RRA makes, in my opinion, a great AR.

I'm curious though... what do you own?

 

[kennyboy]

FWIW..
RRA is not mil-spec, and cannot hold dimensions like the
biggest AR manufacturers. There is a very good reason
why the two top AR makers make and sell,so many weapons.

The DEA bought RRA....so.?? The job went to the cheapest bidder !!!
What does a bean counter care about an agent ?

Mike

I don't know if that is totally true. If they picked RRA only because RRA was the cheapest bidder, then why did the Government TEST rifles from a total of 10 or 11 other manufacturers? If they intended to take the lowest bidder, then they could have just asked for prices and taken the cheapest and would not have had to spend time testing. For the record, RRA makes and sells a crapload of weapons. Try ordering a rifle from them, they are bombarded with orders.

As far as the mil-spec issue, it is overrated. The rifle the DEA uses is a RRA and is mil-spec. Most of RRA's rifles are not mil-spec, but some of the really expensive ones are. Also, the only major concern with rifles not being mil-spec is that if you want to change out some parts, the mil-spec parts are less expensive and easier to come by. The part that most readily comes to mind is the buttstock. To change out a commercial buttstock for a mil-spec one, one must buy a new buffer tube... big deal- 40 bucks and your set, just need the new buttstock.

Barrels- I am sick of hearing babies complain that RRA barrels come standard in chrome moly and not chrome lined. What's the problem? You can spend an extra $40 and get the chrome lined barrel. If you want the chrome moly, you are already set.

I know I am ranting. I just got a RRA Entry Tactical and am impressed and satisfied with it beyond belief. As it stands, I would trust my life to it. This is not directed to any one member but if you like your rifles and feel that they are better than RRA then more power to you. However, don't use mil-spec, chrome moly barrels, and other illegitimate complaints to bash RRA.

 

[Reginhild]

Seems like gunzrfunz has disappeared. We really need to know an intended purpose to answer him correctly. If he wants to get it for hunting deer and his state bans .223 use - most of the suggestions above are void.

 

[Impala]

I'm presently gathering the fixins to put together one in .45 ACP. You can also find 10mm, .40 S&W, .450 Bushmaster, .45 GAP, .458 SOCOM and .50 Beowulf. Oh yeah, and 22lr.

ETA - Be aware that you really need to research available magazines before embarking after one of these.

I'm interested in putting one together in .45acp, but I can't find an upper anywhere. I'm not looking to have things custom made so that's the way I need to go. I'm searching everywhere for one but nothing, nobody makes them for some reason..

I want a carbine in .45acp to compliment my Kimber, I don't like the H&K USC, It has to be an AR platform, I was looking around for a while and came to find that the CX4 storm is just too much plastic for me and is uncomfortable there's also that dumb looking MPA mac-10 carbine which is just fugly, no way I'd pay $500 for that junk.

Now I've come to find that there are tons of 9mm ARs out there, but practically zilch in .45. I can't understand why a major manufacturer wouldn't get on it and put some out, there's got to be a demand for them.

A while back I saw an integrally suppressed upper made by a company called Jeff's Shooter's supply out of Alabama I'm not sure if they use Thompson or Grease gun mags, one of the two.. Anybody know more about them??

 

[Impala]

anybody?
I know Olympic made a few pistol caliber ARs for a couple years, but I'm not exactly a fan of them and can't envision spending $600 on the upper alone. I may end up just going with a Kahr Arms Thompson if I can't find what I'm looking for.