30 cal slob
Member
Henry Bowman said:
*chuckles*
+1
Who is the quintessential modern-day Second Amendment Champion?
- Thread starter yokel
- Start date
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*chuckles*
+1
carnaby
Member
I would have voted Kozinski.
Zundfolge
Member
Thats my choice as well.Andrewsky said:
Ronnie Barrett is a firearms manufacturer that puts the second amendment AHEAD of the profitability of his own company.
He's clearly no Bill Ruger.
xd9fan
Member
Ron Paul is, no question about it.
He's even too pro-Gun(ie to pro-Bill of Rights) for the GOP.
He's even too pro-Gun(ie to pro-Bill of Rights) for the GOP.
Autolycus
Member
Actually Ron Paul has introduced many very pro-gun bills and he does mention 2nd Amendment issues a lot in his weekly writing.
ohioarmedneutrality
Member
Don't forget John Lott.
rockinrussky
Member
gun owners
As executive director of Gunowners of America I'd say Larry Pratt deserves to be on that list as well.
As executive director of Gunowners of America I'd say Larry Pratt deserves to be on that list as well.
usaimages
Member
Ron Paul - without a doubt!
carnaby
Member
I'm trying to. His below-board antics and frequent cherry-picking to make his points have tarnished his reputation. I think the gun community needs to let him go.
Kevin108
Member
In the short time I've been involved with firearms and helping fight to keep our rights, Philip Van Cleave and the rest of the VCDL have had a bigger influence on me than anyone.
Dan from MI
Member
On that list, I picked Robert Levy and Alan Gura. Those two along with the rest of those involved with Parker.
I almost picked Silberman as he's an excellent judge, but he's really doing what is expected of him - his job. I wouldn't be satisfied with anything less. Gura didn't have to take the case, and Levy didn't have to fund it.
Gottlieb does good work at SAF. VCDL is the gold standard of state organizations. Ron Paul is a good congressman. LaPierre's one of the better spokesmen at the NRA (but needs to clean some house there), but Gura and Levy went above and beyond. The rest of them are simply doing their jobs - which I expect from those in their positions.
I almost picked Silberman as he's an excellent judge, but he's really doing what is expected of him - his job. I wouldn't be satisfied with anything less. Gura didn't have to take the case, and Levy didn't have to fund it.
Gottlieb does good work at SAF. VCDL is the gold standard of state organizations. Ron Paul is a good congressman. LaPierre's one of the better spokesmen at the NRA (but needs to clean some house there), but Gura and Levy went above and beyond. The rest of them are simply doing their jobs - which I expect from those in their positions.
skinnyguy
Member
gunmn74
Member
You forgot the "Motor City Mad Man"
Ted Nugent
Ted Nugent
JeffKnox
Member
OK, I'm biased...
Who embodies the essence of Second Amendment values through word and deed?
I believe the "essence" would require several qualifications:
Number one is to be a "True Believer" in every way - politically, philosophically, personally, even spiritually...
* Strong belief in liberty and the right of every individual to possess the firearms of their choice - including "assault weapons" and machineguns.
* An appreciation of firearms and a personal commitment to exercising those rights and pursuing that passion.
* An outspoken and effective advocate for those rights.
* Placing the cause above personal gain and not worrying about who gets the credit.
D.C. Court of Appeals Senior Judge Laurence H. Silberman made a solid legal decision based on the facts presented and the clear history of the Second Amendment, but he by no means "embodies the essence of Second Amendment values."
Alan M. Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation is a good friend of mine and has done more for the gun rights movement than most people will ever know, but he is very much a political animal, not a gun enthusiast.
NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre has done some good things for NRA, but he barely knew which end the bullet came out when my dad hired him as a lobbyist. Wayne isn't a gunny and makes way too much money off of the movement to be considered an ideologue (about one million dollars per year). He's much too willing to compromise principles and if he doesn't get the credit, he won't support it. (Yes I have a chip on my shoulder where Wayne is concerned, but that he earned.)
Congressman Ron Paul of Texas is a solid supporter of Second Amendment rights and enjoys plinking a bit, but he has never been a serious leader for gun rights in Congress and he could have been much more effective if he'd wanted to.
I don't really know Gura and Levy, but I like what I've seen. They were willing to buck the establishment and push for what's right in their own minds. Besides the Parker case though, have they been involved in the fight? Are they shooters? I wouldn't knock them, but I can't give them my vote.
VCDL President Philip Van Cleave is a wonderful example of a committed Second Amendment "True Believer"; he works tirelessly for the cause, carries a gun and enjoys shooting, he sometimes trips over his own convictions, but he wouldn't be the success that he is if he didn't, and, as far as I've been able to ascertain, he's not feathering his own nest with activists' dollars.
On this list, Philip would have to be my choice.
Like others here though, I would submit a write-in vote for someone else whom I think truly personified the essence of the Second Amendment and that was Neal Knox.
Neal was a national champion shooter and an award winner in multiple shooting disciplines. He was the Founding Editor of "Gun Week" newspaper and "Rifle" magazine as well as being the Editor and Publisher of "Rifle" and "Handloader." He was a court certified firearms expert and a skilled "kitchen table" gunsmith. He got active in the Second Amendment fight in his early twenties for pure philosophical reasons and that clear philosophy led him to orchestrate the "Revolt at Cincinnati" where members wrested control of NRA away from misguided leaders. He went on to lead NRA-ILA into its prime; declared war on GCA'68 and BATF and moved NRA to the offensive with the McClure-Volkmer "Firearms Owners' Protection Act." He got fired for not going along with "friendly" politicians, was elected to the Board of Directors and was kicked off of the Board for testifying against a watered-down version of McClure-Volkmer. He was reelected to the Board and became First Vice-President, in line for the Presidency the next year, but got into an argument with Wayne about how members' money was being spent and lost that fight. There were several times over the years that Neal could have sued NRA and probably have won millions, but he felt that would have hurt the cause so he didn't do it. One of Neal's last acts while cancer was rapidly eating away his life was to dictate a letter to the gun rights community thanking them for allowing him to work for them and encouraging them to be steadfast in continuing the fight.
In all of his years as a gun writer and activist, Executive Director of NRA-ILA, Chairman of The Firearms Coalition, and Vice-President of NRA, Neal never made more than about seventy thousand dollars a year from his gun rights activities (making a good portion of his income from shrewed real estate and other investments).
So, as a person who grew up in the middle of the gun fight, and someone who knows and has known most of the prominent players in that fight over the past 40 years or so, I would say that the one person who best embodied the essence of Second Amendment values through word and deed was hands down my father - Neal Knox
Yes I'm biased, but I'm also right.
Jeff
Who embodies the essence of Second Amendment values through word and deed?
I believe the "essence" would require several qualifications:
Number one is to be a "True Believer" in every way - politically, philosophically, personally, even spiritually...
* Strong belief in liberty and the right of every individual to possess the firearms of their choice - including "assault weapons" and machineguns.
* An appreciation of firearms and a personal commitment to exercising those rights and pursuing that passion.
* An outspoken and effective advocate for those rights.
* Placing the cause above personal gain and not worrying about who gets the credit.
D.C. Court of Appeals Senior Judge Laurence H. Silberman made a solid legal decision based on the facts presented and the clear history of the Second Amendment, but he by no means "embodies the essence of Second Amendment values."
Alan M. Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation is a good friend of mine and has done more for the gun rights movement than most people will ever know, but he is very much a political animal, not a gun enthusiast.
NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre has done some good things for NRA, but he barely knew which end the bullet came out when my dad hired him as a lobbyist. Wayne isn't a gunny and makes way too much money off of the movement to be considered an ideologue (about one million dollars per year). He's much too willing to compromise principles and if he doesn't get the credit, he won't support it. (Yes I have a chip on my shoulder where Wayne is concerned, but that he earned.)
Congressman Ron Paul of Texas is a solid supporter of Second Amendment rights and enjoys plinking a bit, but he has never been a serious leader for gun rights in Congress and he could have been much more effective if he'd wanted to.
I don't really know Gura and Levy, but I like what I've seen. They were willing to buck the establishment and push for what's right in their own minds. Besides the Parker case though, have they been involved in the fight? Are they shooters? I wouldn't knock them, but I can't give them my vote.
VCDL President Philip Van Cleave is a wonderful example of a committed Second Amendment "True Believer"; he works tirelessly for the cause, carries a gun and enjoys shooting, he sometimes trips over his own convictions, but he wouldn't be the success that he is if he didn't, and, as far as I've been able to ascertain, he's not feathering his own nest with activists' dollars.
On this list, Philip would have to be my choice.
Like others here though, I would submit a write-in vote for someone else whom I think truly personified the essence of the Second Amendment and that was Neal Knox.
Neal was a national champion shooter and an award winner in multiple shooting disciplines. He was the Founding Editor of "Gun Week" newspaper and "Rifle" magazine as well as being the Editor and Publisher of "Rifle" and "Handloader." He was a court certified firearms expert and a skilled "kitchen table" gunsmith. He got active in the Second Amendment fight in his early twenties for pure philosophical reasons and that clear philosophy led him to orchestrate the "Revolt at Cincinnati" where members wrested control of NRA away from misguided leaders. He went on to lead NRA-ILA into its prime; declared war on GCA'68 and BATF and moved NRA to the offensive with the McClure-Volkmer "Firearms Owners' Protection Act." He got fired for not going along with "friendly" politicians, was elected to the Board of Directors and was kicked off of the Board for testifying against a watered-down version of McClure-Volkmer. He was reelected to the Board and became First Vice-President, in line for the Presidency the next year, but got into an argument with Wayne about how members' money was being spent and lost that fight. There were several times over the years that Neal could have sued NRA and probably have won millions, but he felt that would have hurt the cause so he didn't do it. One of Neal's last acts while cancer was rapidly eating away his life was to dictate a letter to the gun rights community thanking them for allowing him to work for them and encouraging them to be steadfast in continuing the fight.
In all of his years as a gun writer and activist, Executive Director of NRA-ILA, Chairman of The Firearms Coalition, and Vice-President of NRA, Neal never made more than about seventy thousand dollars a year from his gun rights activities (making a good portion of his income from shrewed real estate and other investments).
So, as a person who grew up in the middle of the gun fight, and someone who knows and has known most of the prominent players in that fight over the past 40 years or so, I would say that the one person who best embodied the essence of Second Amendment values through word and deed was hands down my father - Neal Knox
Yes I'm biased, but I'm also right.
Jeff
OP
OP
yokel
Member
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Ted Nugent has been mentioned here more than once.
It's too bad that he doesn't still have the massive audience of teenagers and young adults that he did back in the '70s.
After all, if that crucial demographic doesn't get it, it's definitely over.
It's too bad that he doesn't still have the massive audience of teenagers and young adults that he did back in the '70s.
After all, if that crucial demographic doesn't get it, it's definitely over.
precisionshootist
Member
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2007
- Messages
- 186
Jeff, I would agree with your criteria but I would change the word “Firearms” to just “Arms”.
Swords are also protected by the second amendment and so are future military weapons yet to be invented. I think it’s important we start making this distinction now so we can’t be disarmed simply by the passage of time and advancement of technology. One day soon a machinegun will be as effective for defense to life and liberty as the sword is today.
JeffKnox
Member
You're right of course.
The Second Amendment doesn't say "firearms", it says "arms."
From the pocketknife I got for my sixth birthday and carried in my pocket virtually every day (in school and out), to the the MG81 my great uncle brought back from WWII, to the arms of the future, it is all covered by the Second Amendment - by design.
Remember the flap over "plastic guns"? We almost got sold out on that one with language which would have "permitted" the original Glock, but would have drawn the line right there.
NRA did violate the principle when they endorsed the ban on "armor piercing bullets" based on an assumption that "sportsmen" would have no use for a projectile made of certain types of metals.
As far as I'm concerned, if an 18-year old kid can use a weapon to defend this country, then I can use that same weapon for the same purpose.
BTW, Dad had a sword reputed to have come off of the USS Constitution and a couple of swords from the War of Northern Aggression. He also had a nasty little machete that he used to clear brush - scandalous!
Jeff
The Second Amendment doesn't say "firearms", it says "arms."
From the pocketknife I got for my sixth birthday and carried in my pocket virtually every day (in school and out), to the the MG81 my great uncle brought back from WWII, to the arms of the future, it is all covered by the Second Amendment - by design.
Remember the flap over "plastic guns"? We almost got sold out on that one with language which would have "permitted" the original Glock, but would have drawn the line right there.
NRA did violate the principle when they endorsed the ban on "armor piercing bullets" based on an assumption that "sportsmen" would have no use for a projectile made of certain types of metals.
As far as I'm concerned, if an 18-year old kid can use a weapon to defend this country, then I can use that same weapon for the same purpose.
BTW, Dad had a sword reputed to have come off of the USS Constitution and a couple of swords from the War of Northern Aggression. He also had a nasty little machete that he used to clear brush - scandalous!
Jeff
samtechlan
Member
Larry Craig is great on the 2nd A and is a long time member of the NRA Board. As an aside he is so awful on immigration that I would have trouble supporting him for national office.
I think Ron Paul is the greatest Second Amendment champion alive today. I do agree with everything Jeff Knox wrote about his late father Neal Knox. Neal Knox and Harlan Carter are two men who helped save the 2nd A when even most gunowners were absent from the fight.
2nd Advocate
Great link, skinny guy. Who else has done that lately? Mitt? Fred Thompson? Ron puts out a weekly update to Americans. Great info that we need. Ted Nugent needs to speak up and get those kids back in the game. How pathetic of people not to. Nobody, and I mean nobody will stand up for the Constitutional rights of Americans Like Ron Paul. Our people in the military is one of the biggest contributors to his campaign. Instead of adding more draconian EO's he would take them off the books!
Great link, skinny guy. Who else has done that lately? Mitt? Fred Thompson? Ron puts out a weekly update to Americans. Great info that we need. Ted Nugent needs to speak up and get those kids back in the game. How pathetic of people not to. Nobody, and I mean nobody will stand up for the Constitutional rights of Americans Like Ron Paul. Our people in the military is one of the biggest contributors to his campaign. Instead of adding more draconian EO's he would take them off the books!
Autolycus
Member
Bat1: I hate to break it to you but Ted Nugent will not get any kids back in the game. His music is not in style (thank the lord!) and he does not have the fanbase he once had. Most of his fans are older and probably not going to be swayed by Ted Nugent.
Libertyteeth
Member
I agree with previous posts and would add Aaron Zelman of JPFO to the list of gun heros.
ReadyontheRight
Member
The Members of the NRA.
Shadow1198
Member
I voted Wayne LaPierre. For anyone that hasn't heard the guy speak, check out Youtube and search for "NRA" and you should find several vids of him debating various Anti-Gun Nuts. It makes me feel good knowing that people like this are on our side. The guy is a pretty good and inspiring orator IMHO. After watching a few of those vids, I immediately went out and joined the NRA.
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