Just heard part of an interview on Opie and Anthony on my XM and this guy has an incredible story about bagging a few thieves on a subway and going to jail for carrying a concealed weapon for 8 months. Sounds liek it was recent. I have been offline for awhile though. He said he was on CNN recently. Who is this guy? I missed the name....
Who is this guy who killed 3 BG in a NYC subway??
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mhdishere
Member
Probably Bernie Goetz. It wasn't recent, it was Dec 22, 1984 which is why he's in the news now, 20th anniversary. A bunch of kids attacked him with sharpened screwdrivers and he shot them.
I heard that this morning to. The guys name is Goetz, the inceident was in 1984 or 86. He got off due to jury nullification.
Unregistered handgun on the NYC subway, shooting 4 goons. This link has a little info, but googling his name is sure to turn up a lot more.
/Arcli9ht
edit: heh, beaten to the punch
Unregistered handgun on the NYC subway, shooting 4 goons. This link has a little info, but googling his name is sure to turn up a lot more.
/Arcli9ht
edit: heh, beaten to the punch
Browns Fan
Member
I'll tell you who he is... he is my hero!
What's jury nullification?
What's jury nullification?
Sindawe
Member
It is the concept that the jury not only judges the facts in a given case, but the law as well. Long standing tradition in western justice.
http://www.fija.org/
I remember when it took place... just could not figure why he waited around.... for the second guess-ers to arrive, when his work was done. there was a big stink, following, with law suits, when the "victim scum bags", realized their robbing days were over. says something, for doing the job right, in the first round, and knowing when the party is over. Arc-Lite
critter
Member
IIRC BG was a 'walter mitty' type and some sort of engineer. He had been mugged before and didn't like it at all. Bought a 5-shot .38. The 'engineer' kicked in and he made a plan to deal with dangerous situations. When 4 oxygen-thief types attacked him, his 'plan' kicked in. He went down the line and gave each a .38-bullet first. Still had more in his gun so he started down the line again till he ran dry. Sadly, he needed a bigger gun and more ammo.
I carry a bigger gun and more ammo.
Need more like him!
I carry a bigger gun and more ammo.
Need more like him!
Preacherman
Member
Rembrandt, it wasn't Goetz who inspired the "Death Wish" series of movies - it was Brian Garfield's novel of that name.
HankB
Member
The NY DA gave the four lowlifes immunity from prosecution for their assault on and attempted robbery of Goetz in order to get them to testify against him. 
:banghead:
As I recall, though acquitted on the shooting charges, Goetz was convicted of a firearm violation and spent a year in jail - jurors thought this was a minor issue, and were upset at the stinking judge throwing the book at him.
Goetz also was sued in civil court by at least one of the lowlifes he shot. (I believe one ended up in a wheelchair for life . . . he was the ONLY one who wasn't arrested later on for additional crimes.)
Maybe someone has better info, but I believe Goetz was only caught when he started shooting off his mouth to someone who later turned him in, weeks after the incident. If he had just left, thrown the gun in the ocean, and kept his mouth shut he'd still be anonymous today.
:banghead: As I recall, though acquitted on the shooting charges, Goetz was convicted of a firearm violation and spent a year in jail - jurors thought this was a minor issue, and were upset at the stinking judge throwing the book at him.
Goetz also was sued in civil court by at least one of the lowlifes he shot. (I believe one ended up in a wheelchair for life . . . he was the ONLY one who wasn't arrested later on for additional crimes.)
Maybe someone has better info, but I believe Goetz was only caught when he started shooting off his mouth to someone who later turned him in, weeks after the incident. If he had just left, thrown the gun in the ocean, and kept his mouth shut he'd still be anonymous today.
The shooting was ruled justifriable but he was convicted of carrying a gun without a permit. One of the young men he shot was paralyzed and is in a wheelchair. This one sued Goetz and won some settlement but Goetz pled poverty so I don't know if any money was ever collected.
brian roberts
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goetz.....
BG didn't start "shooting off his mouth"....he became paranoid w/guilt feelings, & turned himself in!! also, its not FIJA anymore, its the AJI American Jurists(or jury) Institute.
BG didn't start "shooting off his mouth"....he became paranoid w/guilt feelings, & turned himself in!! also, its not FIJA anymore, its the AJI American Jurists(or jury) Institute.
Bernie, New York City's premier civilian gunfighter, shot and wounded 4 guys about 20 years ago. The anniversary of the event was the other day.
He was found guilty of carrying without a permit and served 8 months in Rikers Island. Since he was an electrical engineer, he worked for the guards repairing radios, TV, etc. They took care of him.
Later he was sued by one of the BG's who was paralyzed. Bernie was hit with a $42,000,000 lawsuit. Hasn't paid a penny. So much for the civil lawsuit after a shooting.
He was found guilty of carrying without a permit and served 8 months in Rikers Island. Since he was an electrical engineer, he worked for the guards repairing radios, TV, etc. They took care of him.
Later he was sued by one of the BG's who was paralyzed. Bernie was hit with a $42,000,000 lawsuit. Hasn't paid a penny. So much for the civil lawsuit after a shooting.
"A 1996 civil jury ordered Goetz to pay $43 million to the man he left paralyzed. It is unlikely that Darrell Cabey, who was paralyzed and suffered brain damage, will be able to collect from the unemployed electrician."
~America's Courts and the Criminal Justice System.
8th Edition, David W. Neubauer.
~America's Courts and the Criminal Justice System.
8th Edition, David W. Neubauer.
Kamicosmos
Member
I read some of these articles, and I have to admit that I am confused. I thought Goetz was the guy that just started shooting on a subway one day. Defended himself at trial, and would badger witness/victims about how they could be so certain that it was he who shot them?
I obviously have Goetz confused with someone else...anyone know who I'm thinking of?
I obviously have Goetz confused with someone else...anyone know who I'm thinking of?
wolf
Member
...inspiration for the Charles Bronson "Death Wish" movies...
that movie was in 1974...and the reaction was about the same.."taking the law into your own hands" .. though is seems a natural thing to do..as we are the law..so to speak..this just reflects the attitude of "what do you need a gun for.." few folks in my life know about guns...fewer know i have several...i hope it stays that way
wolf
that movie was in 1974...and the reaction was about the same.."taking the law into your own hands" .. though is seems a natural thing to do..as we are the law..so to speak..this just reflects the attitude of "what do you need a gun for.." few folks in my life know about guns...fewer know i have several...i hope it stays that way
wolf
Felonious Monk
Member
Different guy. Goetz was a man who defended himself.
The other one went nuts and systematically started shooting people from the back to the front of the subway car. African American or Jamaican, the name escapes me now but I remember him defending himself in court and it was a media circus.
EDIT: found it.
http://www.natvan.com/american-dissident-voices/adv122593.html
On December seventh, 1993, a Black man, a Jamaican immigrant named Colin Ferguson boarded the third car on the Long Island Railroad 5:33 from Pennsylvania Station to Hicksville, Long Island. According to police reports:
Ferguson boarded the ...train in Queens [in New York City].
He sat without incident as the train crossed into Long Island, but as it left the New Hyde Park station just before Merillon Avenue, he stood at the rear of the third car of the 12-car train and began walking forward. He pivoted, then began shooting, first left and then right, as he walked backwards. Every time he saw a White man or woman in his sights, he fired. He also shot and killed an Asian. He turned around, walking toward the door to the second car, but then turned around again and resumed shooting. Ferguson, police and witnesses said, walked silently up and down the third car of the train, shooting people in the head, the neck, the arms, the buttocks. One passenger quoted him as saying, "You're going to get it, you're going to get it" as he took the lives of the innocent people in that train car. There were more White people than there were bullets in his magazine, however, and twice he was able to pause, reload his weapon, and begin shooting again.
As he paused to reload for a third time in a car filled with bloodied, screaming passengers, three men jumped him from behind and wrestled him down.
The other one went nuts and systematically started shooting people from the back to the front of the subway car. African American or Jamaican, the name escapes me now but I remember him defending himself in court and it was a media circus.
EDIT: found it.
http://www.natvan.com/american-dissident-voices/adv122593.html
On December seventh, 1993, a Black man, a Jamaican immigrant named Colin Ferguson boarded the third car on the Long Island Railroad 5:33 from Pennsylvania Station to Hicksville, Long Island. According to police reports:
Ferguson boarded the ...train in Queens [in New York City].
He sat without incident as the train crossed into Long Island, but as it left the New Hyde Park station just before Merillon Avenue, he stood at the rear of the third car of the 12-car train and began walking forward. He pivoted, then began shooting, first left and then right, as he walked backwards. Every time he saw a White man or woman in his sights, he fired. He also shot and killed an Asian. He turned around, walking toward the door to the second car, but then turned around again and resumed shooting. Ferguson, police and witnesses said, walked silently up and down the third car of the train, shooting people in the head, the neck, the arms, the buttocks. One passenger quoted him as saying, "You're going to get it, you're going to get it" as he took the lives of the innocent people in that train car. There were more White people than there were bullets in his magazine, however, and twice he was able to pause, reload his weapon, and begin shooting again.
As he paused to reload for a third time in a car filled with bloodied, screaming passengers, three men jumped him from behind and wrestled him down.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
What passes for "justice" in New York is normally relegated to the sewers elsewhere in the nation.
280PLUS
Member
Bernie Goetz to one of the now shot and laying on the floor perpetrators,
"You don't look so bad! Here have another!"
Incidentally, the Jamaican shooter was using Black Talons per newspaper reports.
IIRC he got an insanity decision.
"You don't look so bad! Here have another!"
Incidentally, the Jamaican shooter was using Black Talons per newspaper reports.
IIRC he got an insanity decision.
Anyone interested in New York subway shooting incidents should definitely read at least the first chapter or two of Hosts, by F Paul Wilson.
Jack19
Member
Not even close. "Death Wish" predates the Goetz shootings by 10 years.
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