Why Did it Have to be ... Guns?

Status
Not open for further replies.

ebd10

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Messages
359
Location
South Dakota
Here's an editorial I ran across a while back. I think that this explains my view quite eloquently...

Why Did it Have to be ... Guns?
by L. Neil Smith
[email protected]

Over the past 30 years, I've been paid to write almost two million words, every one of which, sooner or later, came back to the issue of guns and gun-ownership. Naturally, I've thought about the issue a lot, and it has always determined the way I vote.

People accuse me of being a single-issue writer, a single- issue thinker, and a single- issue voter, but it isn't true. What I've chosen, in a world where there's never enough time and energy, is to focus on the one political issue which most clearly and unmistakably demonstrates what any politician—or political philosophy—is made of, right down to the creamy liquid center.

Make no mistake: all politicians—even those ostensibly on the side of guns and gun ownership—hate the issue and anyone, like me, who insists on bringing it up. They hate it because it's an X-ray machine. It's a Vulcan mind-meld. It's the ultimate test to which any politician—or political philosophy—can be put.

If a politician isn't perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash—for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything—without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn't your friend no matter what he tells you.

If he isn't genuinely enthusiastic about his average constituent stuffing that weapon into a purse or pocket or tucking it under a coat and walking home without asking anybody's permission, he's a four-flusher, no matter what he claims.

What his attitude—toward your ownership and use of weapons—conveys is his real attitude about you. And if he doesn't trust you, then why in the name of John Moses Browning should you trust him?

If he doesn't want you to have the means of defending your life, do you want him in a position to control it?

If he makes excuses about obeying a law he's sworn to uphold and defend—the highest law of the land, the Bill of Rights—do you want to entrust him with anything?

If he ignores you, sneers at you, complains about you, or defames you, if he calls you names only he thinks are evil—like "Constitutionalist"—when you insist that he account for himself, hasn't he betrayed his oath, isn't he unfit to hold office, and doesn't he really belong in jail?

Sure, these are all leading questions. They're the questions that led me to the issue of guns and gun ownership as the clearest and most unmistakable demonstration of what any given politician—or political philosophy—is really made of.

He may lecture you about the dangerous weirdos out there who shouldn't have a gun—but what does that have to do with you? Why in the name of John Moses Browning should you be made to suffer for the misdeeds of others? Didn't you lay aside the infantile notion of group punishment when you left public school—or the military? Isn't it an essentially European notion, anyway—Prussian, maybe—and certainly not what America was supposed to be all about?

And if there are dangerous weirdos out there, does it make sense to deprive you of the means of protecting yourself from them? Forget about those other people, those dangerous weirdos, this is about you, and it has been, all along.

Try it yourself: if a politician won't trust you, why should you trust him? If he's a man—and you're not—what does his lack of trust tell you about his real attitude toward women? If "he" happens to be a woman, what makes her so perverse that she's eager to render her fellow women helpless on the mean and seedy streets her policies helped create? Should you believe her when she says she wants to help you by imposing some infantile group health care program on you at the point of the kind of gun she doesn't want you to have?

On the other hand—or the other party—should you believe anything politicians say who claim they stand for freedom, but drag their feet and make excuses about repealing limits on your right to own and carry weapons? What does this tell you about their real motives for ignoring voters and ramming through one infantile group trade agreement after another with other countries?

Makes voting simpler, doesn't it? You don't have to study every issue—health care, international trade—all you have to do is use this X-ray machine, this Vulcan mind-meld, to get beyond their empty words and find out how politicians really feel. About you. And that, of course, is why they hate it.

And that's why I'm accused of being a single-issue writer, thinker, and voter.

But it isn't true, is it?
 
People accuse me of being a single-issue writer, a single- issue thinker, and a single- issue voter...

Same here. My response to those people is that my single issue is liberty and gun rights are the proverbial "canary in the coal mine".
 
I have told many other people that when I judge someone running for office
I have my version of a Litmus test. That test is how they deal with the Second Amendment. I don't give a red rats ass how good an administrator they are, how eloquent they are, how much good they have done for our schools, healthcare or anything else. If they don't actively fight for the Second Amendment they do not get my vote. That is why I am a registered independent. That is why I told the last governor of my state that my vote could not be counted on just because he was GOP. My vote has to be earned, you don't get it just for being a member of one party or another.
 
Excellent articulaion of my thoughts. I have posted the same ideas on DU, and cross posted here - about "sure, there is more then one issue, but none quite as revealing as to what your reps hink of you" LOVE IT!

Is your chosen rep a liar, or an idiot, or maybe both?

Anyone who can read knows what the 2nd amendment says, so they know what it means. Anyone who can read, and is for some silly reason NOT sure what it means, can spend about 1/2 hr on the i'net finding words of the founders & framers to help explain what it means, to know what their intent was, & to assure themselves WHY such a clause was deemed so important. They can do this quite easily, even if just to be sure the gun owners, the NRA, pro-gun people, people who can read, etc. aren't trying to put something past them.

SOO, anyone who can read, and says they do not think the 2nd amendment gives the people, individually and yes even collectively, the right to keep and bear arms, is either an idiot, a liar, or both. NOW, some might not AGREE with the 2nd amend., but trying to mis-represent what it says, what it means, what its intent was to support their misguided opinions, is disingenious - they are wrong, or they are lying.

IF one simply doesn't agree with its purpose, which is to keep government from encroaching on the inalienable right to self-defense, derived from the natural rights of life & liberty, then in that case it is because they do not trust YOU, they think YOU are not responsible, they think YOU don't deserve the ability to protect yourself, your loved ones, or the freedoms we all cherish. Such a person considers you no better then the worst criminal deprived of that right by due process.

This may be only one issue, but it shows very clearly what such a person thinks of the people.

Think about this, and DO NOT SUPPORT OR VOTE for such a person!
 
I think our Texas congresswoman Suzanna Hupp has

said it best and most eloquently for most of us.

I wish I could find her confrontational quote (paraphrasing here); The Second Amendment isn't about our protecting ourselves from criminals, but about our protecting all of us from all of you. (To one of our longtime favorite antis).

Dang, I wish these Altz-thing episodes weren't getting more frequent - er, that is - I wish I could remember everything perfectly.

ElZorro
 
If our elected servants...

...don't trust us with guns, maybe they've got a *reason* to be nervous. :cuss:

7
 
If a politician isn't perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash—for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything—without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn't your friend no matter what he tells you.

If it were possible to just walk in and buy a gun as if it were a candy bar, that would mean that any mental nutcase or convicted felon could walk in and buy said gun without producing ID or even a background check. I'm not sure I'd want that to happen myself. I feel that there should be some way to check these people out even if it means producing an ID or signing a 4473. Yes it's a PITA but until there is a better way...
 
Axman

If it were possible to just walk in and buy a gun as if it were a candy bar, that would mean that any mental nutcase or convicted felon could walk in and buy said gun without producing ID or even a background check.
. . .
I feel that there should be some way to check these people out even if it means producing an ID or signing a 4473. Yes it's a PITA but until there is a better way.

Axman, why is it there are convicted felons and nutcases loose on the street?

There is a better way.

Take the people you already know can't be trusted out of circulation.

If the crazies and the criminals were allowed to walk around with guns, that situation would eventually sort itself out.

In either case, restricting the actions of honest people because you're afraid of what criminals will do -- that attacks the wrong people.
 
Last edited:
If it were possible to just walk in and buy a gun as if it were a candy bar, that would mean that any mental nutcase or convicted felon could walk in and buy said gun without producing ID or even a background check. I'm not sure I'd want that to happen myself. I feel that there should be some way to check these people out even if it means producing an ID or signing a 4473. Yes it's a PITA but until there is a better way...

Buying a gun though the mail or at your local hardware store worked pretty well until about 1968, when it was arbitrarily outlawed.

Do you feel safer NOW?

How 'bout we punish the offenses?

If a person let out of jail is too dangerous for a gun, why is a car OK?
 
If it were possible to just walk in and buy a gun as if it were a candy bar, that would mean that any mental nutcase or convicted felon could walk in and buy said gun without producing ID or even a background check. I'm not sure I'd want that to happen myself. I feel that there should be some way to check these people out even if it means producing an ID or signing a 4473. Yes it's a PITA but until there is a better way...
The problem is that the criminals and crazies aren't stopped by background checks and laws. They just find a way around the law. Someone who is determined to acquire a weapon and use it in a criminal action will not be stopped by laws. Everyone knows murder is illegal and if someone will shoot and murder you than why would anyone think that making it "double or triple illegal" will stop them? And who cares if the weapon was acquired legally or illegally? They got it and with the black market it's clear that illegal or not they will continue to get them. The real question should be whether or not the victim had one and therefore an equal chance of defending themselves. Everything else is a distraction from the real issue. Will we be afforded the means of defending ourselves equal to or greater than the means the criminal would use to assault us? Currently there are many people working feverishly to deny us that means.
 
Guns, why? The short and sweet

The word smiths that eloquently write wonderful prose about guns, gun ownership, freedom and citizenship should read this very short and to the point sentence from the president of the Minnesota Vietnam Veterans Motorcycle Club.

I have never met this fellow Minnesotan, but he really cuts to the chase.

"The Second Ammendment ain't about f**king duck hunting."
-- Raider, State President, Minnesota VNVMC

oae :D
 
There may have been a time in this country's history where most citizens believed that they were responsible for their own safety and their own destiny, but that day apparently has long passed. Most or at least many Americans want the government to take care of them, to protect them, and to tell them what to do and what not to do. They are very comfortable having far away government clerks in Washington tell them what their local schools must teach their children, what their health insurer MUST include in the policy, and what gas mileage their car must achieve. Combine this with the emotional fear and distrust they have for guns, that they think of only as a criminal tool, and we have the situation we now live in. I have used the concept of 2nd Amendment support as a litmus test, and have found many otherwise intelligent and reasonable people totally perplexed. Their fear of guns is so overwhelming, their conviction that guns are totally bad and that anyone who believes otherwise is just a kook is so strong that rational arguments cannot penetrate their clouded minds. So many people are so fearful of the world that they want to believe that their political leaders are somehow magically able to know what is best for them. How else would you explain the support of socialist Hilary Clinton? Or why would people be willing to consider Barack Obama, who has said nothing but platitudes to his supporters, and is nothing but an inexperienced but articulate and charming leftist, to be the leader of the last great hope for humankind, the USA? I fear that all is lost, or close to it, when I hear "conservative" talk radio hosts lament the limitations of the posse comitatas act. So keep your guns clean, stock up on ammo, and hope for the best.
 
And along these lines, my post over at the Brady myspace blog:


Good thing we are not in France then...since it is the US Constitution that does indeed protect the rights you are so eager to see disabled. That and common sense.

I am curious...is it you that comes up with this stuff? Just whose logic was it that determined the standing army and the police should be better armed then the people they work for, you remember 'the people' right? - the very ones they are hired to serve and protect? And whose logic was it that decided the terrible socially deviate actions of less then .0001% of the population who actually use ANY rifle to commit homicide each year should determine it is best to encroach on what is (a) right for the other 294 million of us?

And most of all, just who came up with the "sensible" idea that in order to combat violent criminals who use firearms to impose their will on others, unarming the other 99.88% of us in ANY way shape or form is the proper course to take?


... Are you kidding me??? And seems you are still not getting that whole "2nd amendment isn't about hunting and sports" thing...Bill of Rights? Rights of the people? Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness and property? Unalienable? Defence of himself and the State? Any of this ring a bell?
 
Where do we put them? The prisons are already over capacity as it is.
The problem is that the criminals and crazies aren't stopped by background checks and laws. They just find a way around the law. Someone who is determined to acquire a weapon and use it in a criminal action will not be stopped by laws. Everyone knows murder is illegal and if someone will shoot and murder you than why would anyone think that making it "double or triple illegal" will stop them? And who cares if the weapon was acquired legally or illegally? They got it and with the black market it's clear that illegal or not they will continue to get them.

To play devils advocate... gun control laws have reduced the number of gun crimes in every country which has implemented it... often other crimes have risen. And a good part of the black market is made up of arms stolen from law abiding owners, legal dealers, etc. Wealthy, powerful and organized criminals would find a way, but it'd be much harder for street thugs if guns were highly regulated. Controls do have an effect, and it's not as simple as if the willingness to violate the law means they'll be able to get one. Common criminals can't get their hands on a nuke, despite whatever desire and his willingness to violate the law to get one, due to the extremely stringent controls of them. The problem is the laws affect law abiding and criminals disproportionately. It may be extremely difficult for criminals to get, but it's impossible for the law abiding to have.
 
You mean the way "street thug" access to highly regulated drugs has been curtailed?

Based on your knowledge with regards to prohibition, would you say the ability for one willing to break the law to get an alcoholic beverage was drastically reduced? Would you say that criminal activity involved in the use, production, or trading of alocholic beverages was drastically reduced? Would you say the results of prohibition had a positive overall effect on crime?

Based on your knowledge with regards to the war on drugs, would you say the ability for one willing to break the law to get a controlled substance has been drastically reduced? Would you say that criminal activity involved in the production, use, or dealing of illegal drugs has been drastically reduced? Would you say that the results of the war on drugs has had a positive overall effect on crime?


Sorry - my answers are NO. Like prohibition and the war on drugs, total gun control in this country will NOT work to control or reduce crime. There would be too much money to be made, & too high a demand for the object being regulated. We the law abiding would become ever more the victim, and totally reliant on the state for protection (which would not be forthcoming).

Again - just what idiot came up with the "sensible" idea that in order to combat violent criminals who use firearms to impose their will on others, unarming the other 99.88% (per FBI stats) of us in ANY way shape or form is the proper course to take? Why let the actions of such a tiny percentage dictate the RIGHTS and liberties of the rest of us, when other methods WILL work?

You can NOT control behavior - illegal or otherwise, by controlling objects.
 
Working IN prison, doing an informal ongoing survey of inmates, from supermax custody, to the medium sex offender yard I am now on, I can tell you criminal access to firearms is NOT affected by gun laws. Period. Smuggling humans is easy enough, so if you were to close down all gun shops right now, the first load of AKs, (whatever has come across already is reserved for Al-Quida, I am sure), would be coming over the border tonight. Mexico has DRASTIC gun control but the Chiapas rebels had plenty of full auto AKs, a firearm Mexico does NOT issue to it's military.
The comment that should get your hackles up is one made to me by a supermax lifer, who said, "If I was getting out tomorrow, I'd call my people, tell them to meet me with 'one of those things', and I'd have a gun in my hand before I was past the gate." Did I mention that 96% of all inmates are evntually released? Truth.
 
If it were possible to just walk in and buy a gun as if it were a candy bar, that would mean that any mental nutcase or convicted felon could walk in and buy said gun
And if he gets denied by a background check,
Then what?
Laws do not have magical powers over criminals.
Who walks into the gunshop? Your dangerous nutcase/felon, looking for a weapon.
He gets denied.
Who walks OUT of the gunshop? Your dangerous nutcase/felon, looking for a weapon.
Do you really believe he will no longer be dangerous?
What are the odds?
Picture 1000 dangerous men, looking for weapons, being denied by a background check – what is your realistic estimate of how many will STOP being dangerous because of it?
Do you know of ANY evidence that a background check will actually DO anything (other than create a black market?)
 
To play devils advocate... gun control laws have reduced the number of gun crimes in every country which has implemented it...
The form of the statement reflects bigotry: “Jew control laws” have reduced the number of “Jew crimes” in every country which has implemented …
The conclusion is demonstrably false: gun crimes in England have risen as controls have gotten more stringent.

Wealthy, powerful and organized criminals would find a way, but it'd be much harder for street thugs if guns were highly regulated.
How do you figure? Highly regulated = black market = easier for criminals. As England seems to illustrate.
Controls do have an effect, and it's not as simple as if the willingness to violate the law means they'll be able to get one.
Do you have any real world evidence of that? NY State officially estimates 1-2 million illegal guns in NYC alone.
Common criminals can't get their hands on a nuke, despite whatever desire and his willingness to violate the law to get one, due to the extremely stringent controls of them.
Mountains and mole hills. Nukes do not exist in the same numbers, by orders of magnitude, nor are they as easy to deal with, physically.

The problem is the laws affect law abiding and criminals disproportionately.
Amen to that. My personal opinion is that that is no accident.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top