Why Did it Have to be ... Guns?

[ebd10]

Lucky:
Alexander Solzhenitzyn wrote The Gulag Archipelago. At the time, the book was so controversial in the Soviet Union that he was exiled and lived in fear for his life in Western Europe. The actual quote is:

". . .How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: What would things have been like if every Security Operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive?
Or, if during periods of mass arrests people had not simply sat in their lairs paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly sat up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. The organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt."
Aleksandr Isaevich Solzshenitsyn

 

[KHawk]

ebd10, Great Post!!!

Just sent a copy to my ILL State Rep. Hope he reads it before he votes on AWM.

 

[razorburn]

Zespectre, nationwide bans have reduced gun crime in every country which has implemented them. In a localized area such as D.C, or school zones, where anybody can still easily get them with a short drive, they're not effective.

Drugs are a different story in that they're easily and cheaply made, harvested, and transported.. some like marijuana even grow wild in parts of the U.S. You can't grow guns on a plantation, and smuggle a Smith and Wesson in a condom stuffed up your ass.

The conclusion is demonstrably false: gun crimes in England have risen as controls have gotten more stringent.

Do you mean the 97/98 handgun laws? Ah... true, but misleading. They affected less than 1% of the guns owned by the population, while simultaneously making many things into gun crimes that previously were not. This will have the effect of making unwitting criminals out of many owners. Note that their "imitation guns", fake gun crime skyrocketed and added considerably to the figures. After a period, their gun crime rate began decreasing again around 2004.

 

[ZeSpectre]

nationwide bans have reduced gun crime in every country which has implemented them.

Okay so I guess my question is this. If nationwide bans have reduced gun crime, are the same crimes still being committed but with different tools? As far as I know this has been the case in several locations, most notably Japan. (I will attempt to find figures to back up that statement) if this information is correct then it makes a focus on what tool is used a little silly.

What I mean is this. Lets say that over 12 months 100 banks were held up and 75 of those crimes were committed with a gun. Then a nationwide gun ban is enacted and the next 12 months 100 banks were held up but this time only 15 of those were with a gun. A case such as that might sound good statistically but in truth is a zero gain policy because it's not the tools (guns, knives, explosives, brass knuckles and on and on) that need to be dealt with, it is the source of the criminal activity that needs to be dealt with (that would be the people).

 

[musher]

Zespectre, nationwide bans have reduced gun crime in every country which has implemented them.

cite please.

 

[PirateJoe]

The more I think about it, the more I'd have to agree. Guns are my litmus test. With politicians and people. To believe in gun control is to disregard the volumes of factual and logical evidence against gun control. In my mind, these people are shortsighted at best, and dangerously ignorant at worst.

 

[Lew]

Everyone knows murder is illegal and if someone will shoot and murder you than why would anyone think that making it "double or triple illegal" will stop them?

It's funny, I made this very same argument in response to this.
In response to the string of SHOOTINGS in Britain [that blissful no-gun paradise],

[Tony Blair] is considering proposals including lowering the age at which the mandatory five-year sentence for carrying a gun can be imposed from 21 to 17.

He goes on to say, in effect, that something is wrong, but what the devil is it? Hmmm..

Personally, I have zero problem with a no-check, cash policy on firearm sales. Y'all remember what someone said about sacrificing liberty for "safety."

 

[Axman]

Yes, the problem is that felons would look elsewhere for a gun and often do. Honestly, I feel there should be a time limit. Such as, if the person served their term and paid their debt to society and can remain trouble free for x amount of time, then all rights shall be restored. Of course I would like to be able to just walk in a gunshop, hand the guy my money and walk out without any hassles. If the problem lies with the criminal justice system, then that needs to be addressed. I only hope that the 4473 is only a temporary thing until someone can come up with a better solution.

*edit*
It also has nothing to do with making me feel safe. I feel safe even if these people can get guns, I after all have my own. I just feel they shouldn't have them because it's punitive. There are certain felons who I thing could fall into the "okay to own firearms" group, those that have not committed violent crimes toward another human being (i.e. grand larceny, embezzelment etc.). So, I guess it really is a criminal justice issue.

 

[razorburn]

Okay so I guess my question is this. If nationwide bans have reduced gun crime, are the same crimes still being committed but with different tools? As far as I know this has been the case in several locations, most notably Japan. (I will attempt to find figures to back up that statement) if this information is correct then it makes a focus on what tool is used a little silly.

Yeah, you bet. They're generally less effective though. It is as glummer originally posted. If you ban cars, you get less vehicular homicide. If you deport mexicans, you get less mexican crime. If you ban pools, there'll be fewer pool drownings. That sort of thing. When you ban guns, you get less gun crime.

musher, it's been very difficult to find stats which include armed burglaries and such. But here's a link which with info about firearms murder rates per country. You can see countries noted for having strict enforcement of strict gun laws have lower firearms murder rates.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita

 

[Lucky]

ebd10 I definately want to read it. On amazon the books mentions 'parts', on looking at Wikipedia there's the 7 parts, and the story of how he managed to write the book and hide the parts and sneak them out, very interesting!

And imagine if they'd had more efficient tools than axes to defend themselves

 

[madmike]

gun control laws have reduced the number of gun crimes in every country which has implemented it

And banning cars will reduce "car crimes."

So what?

"Be of good cheer. At least your son wasn't killed with a gun. He was only knifed seventeen times and beaten with a tire iron."

I'll take the gun. I will ignore all control, registration, confiscation. I will INCREASE the "Gun crime" because I WILL NOT #@!$ING COMPLY!