Why don't my 9mm HP's chamber?

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mugsie

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Fist of all I need to make a confession. I have loaded 1000's of 9mm, in fact, I've loaded 1000's of a lot of calibers. Whenever I change something, either the bullet, manufacturer, powder etc. I always always always except this once load only 20 rounds and try them. This time I was an idiot and loaded 100 without first trying them.:banghead:

I'm loading Berrys HP 124g plated bullet over 4.0g of #2 (not that that matters because I didn't get that far yet!). The OAL length is 1.095 as specified in two of my manuals (Speer and Accurate). 1.095 is the minimum length and has worked wonders with my 115g RN from Berrys. The bullet itself is .544 long and has .192 seated in the cartridge. There's .352 sticking outside. When I loaded these things they looked "funny" in that because it's an HP the wall of the bullet protrudes quite a bit before the ogive (I hope I'm not confusing you because I think I confused me already!). Anyway I took these to the range and loaded up my S&W 9mm. I cocked the slide and it failed to go into battery. I tried it again and it went into battery. I fired the first round and the second almost chambered. I say almost because it again failed to go into battery and I was unable to pull the slide back to eject the round. It took a herculean effort to get the slide back but when it did it ejected ok.

I went home, miked up everything and all dimensions appeared to be OK. The bulet itself is .355 in diameter (I thought they gave me a .38 instead but they didn't). I put them back into the press and put a more agressive taper crimp on them. I have yet to take them to the range to try the new crimp, but all other 9's had the old crimp with no problems what-so-ever.

I'm stumped guys - any ideas? Thanks....
 
I have loaded and shot some Berry's 124 Gr. HP's but I loaded them at 1.030 which is a bit shorter than you loaded them. .065 shorter. I don't know if this is the problem or not. Were there any rifling marks on the bullets after you extracted them? How hard was it to extract? These bullets are a bit finicky feeding in some guns.

The only time I have had loaded rounds almost completely chamber, lock up the gun, and be very difficult to extract was when some of my loaded rounds were to fat for the chamber in the ass end. ( Old slightly bulged cases where the die did not size it down quite enough - .002 to .003 fatter than the rounds which chambered OK- A small chamber was the problem there though. They shot fine in 3 other 9MM's. 1 pistol and 2 carbines.) Is this a gun you have been shooting reloads with the same brass in?
 
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Sounds like the bullet is hitting the rifling when it chambers, test and make sure it isnt. If it is you can have really dramatic pressure spikes.
 
Like HSMITH said, the shoulder of your bullet is most likely engaging the rifeling of your barrel before fully chambering. Field stip your pistol and take the barrel, drop your reload into the chamber and note what it looks like in relation the barrel hood, then drop in a factory round and see if they're the same.

If you find the offending JHP's to be overly long you can just seet the bullet a bit deeper untill if chambers correctly.
 
Berry's plated lead require light crimps. I find it best to seat & crimp the bullets in seperate operations.

If your crimp is set to be heavy, the case may bite into the bullet on it's downward travel, shaving a bit out above/over the case. Since the cartridge is tapered and is supposed to head space off the front lip of the case in the chamber, the shaved lead may prevent it from fully chambering.
 
All good ideas guys. Thanks. I had already taken a factory round, Speer 124g HP +P Gold Dot and dropped it into just the barrel. I measured where it ended up, then did the same with one of my Berrys - they were the same. I measured the Gold Dot OAL and it too was the same as the Berrys. I did tighten up the crimp somewhat on a few and I'll take them to the range tonight and see if they chamber. If the problem still persists I'll take the bullet eraser, and remove the bullet from the case. Couple of lessons learned here 1) stick to what I was always doing - 20 initially and try. 2) Berrys HP's do not like my S&W. BTW - this gun has been with me quite a while and has digested 1000's of Berrys, although the round nose variety. It has also digested Gold Dot HP's as well with no problems what-so-ever. This is a frustrating problem....:cuss: :banghead: :D
 
I don't know the shape of the berry's but I ran into the same thing with some zero's.Once I shortened up the oal it was fine.This was in my cz's which have a short leade.
 
Mugsie, You say that the 1.090 works great for the 115rn bullets, but hollow points will need to be way shorter, to chamber. Take the barrel out of your gun, take a spent case and just start a bullet(hollow pt) and insert it in the barrel untill the bullet is seated by the rifling,and the case is pushed all the way in. Now remove it, and carefully measure it. Subtract .010-.015 for clearance, and use that for your min oal. Maybe your load books will have oal specs for xtp bullets, that you can use. Good luck:)
 
Mugsie, You say that the 1.090 works great for the 115rn bullets, but hollow points will need to be way shorter, to chamber. Take the barrel out of your gun, take a spent case and just start a bullet(hollow pt) and insert it in the barrel untill the bullet is seated by the rifling,and the case is pushed all the way in. Now remove it, and carefully measure it. Subtract .010-.015 for clearance, and use that for your min oal. Maybe your load books will have oal specs for xtp bullets, that you can use. Good luck
Click to expand...

That's almost what I do with my rifles and I would think it would work with a pistol. I make a dummy round, no powder & no primer. Make it LONG and force gently all the way into the chamber. That should give you the length from the front of the rim to where the bullet touches the bbl., subtract .010" - .015" (those are my rifle amounts) and build your load from there.
 
Good ideas guys - I'll try it later tonight when I get home. I'm still dreading the possibility of unloading 100 rounds!:cuss:
 
If they are just to long and you did not crimp heavily you can seat them further down. Even if this ruins accuracy you can shoot them instead of having to pull them all down.
 
Ok, I did what you guys suggested. I created a dummy round, removed the barrel from the gun and pushed the round into the chamber. When I felt the bullet touching the lands, I continued to push until the case was firmly seated. I removed the round and measured it. It measured 1.041". The manuals I have recommend a Min OAL of 1.095. Subtracting a safety factor of .010, my round would be 1.031" OAL. This ends up at .064 less than the Min OAL. Wouldn't this increase pressures in the gun with the bullet being seated .064 deeper than recommended? Does any of this make sense?
Thanks for the help....
 
I have loaded and shot some Berry's 124 Gr. HP's but I loaded them at 1.030 which is a bit shorter than you loaded them. .065 shorter. (From my earlier post.)
Click to expand...

Yes, adjust the powder charge accordingly. Start over and work up again.

I shot the 124 Gr. Berry HP with 4.5 Grs. AA # 2 for an Avg. 986 FPS at 1.030 O.A.L. at 56 Degrees in a 3" barrel min sammi spec barrel EMP.

I also shot it with 4.9 Grs. Universal Clays for an Avg. 1084 FPS at 1.030 O.A.L. at 70 degrees in the same EMP before it went back to Springfield to fix an undersized chamber. (signs of pressure, back off!)(fixing chamber helped this though) This load burned very clean.

These loads were safe in my guns with my load procedure. Reduce 10% to start.
 
Mugsie, if you dont mind me asking, what gun are you having problems with? It seems the chamber is short or the berrys have a really strange profile. Just curious.
 
I had the same problem with berrys 124 gr HP's.Had take OAL down to 1.040,over 4.0 grains of clays don't think pressure is an issue.Gun is a colt 1991A1,rounds feed fine and accuracy is fine for steel.Bob
 
Have the barrel throated for longer loads. It won't hurt the accuracy and in a lot of cases will help accuracy, it lowers pressure across the board, and doesn't cost much to do.

You don't know now what type of ammo you might run into in the future, you might as well set the gun up to take anything you might shoot safely.

Another concern is that you were able to push the bullet in, unless you were REALLY pushing hard something is wrong. You should not be able to push the bullet in unless you push REALLY hard.
 
HSmith,
The bullets slip right in the fired, unsized cases. You usually need a bullet hammer to remove it, though.:)
 
I've noticed the Berry's bullets are a bit larger diameter than any others I've tried. Maybe you're mushrooming the case a bit when seating and crimping them if you don't flare enough. That's why I like the Lee crimp dies as they bring any screwups back into shape and it's much easier to set seating depth and crimping separately.
 
JDGray, I am referring to the throat, not the chamber. He was also able to push the loaded round into the chamber and set the bullet back a good bit, you should have to push REALLY hard before the bullet sets back.

Eagle, if you NEED the factory crimp die, something is terribly wrong leading up to it.
 
Eagle, if you NEED the factory crimp die, something is terribly wrong leading up to it.
Click to expand...
Agreed. But it is a bit easier to set seating and crimp separately plus the most important thing is my new Classic four hole turret press would look funny, especially with me pumping the handle for a dry hole.:D
 
Resolved!

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I took the bullets to the range and they fired perfectly! I'm using a S&W model pistol. I placed a dummy round in the barrel as you've suggested and pushed to get it seated. did the measurements, subtraced a .010 safety factor and am loading them now at 1.031 - 1.032. They chamber, fire, are accurate and eject fine. Problem solved.

This problem doesn't happen on any other bullet other than the Berrys HP. Maybe it's the shape, maybe the ogive in relation to the straight walls, who knows. All I know is they work and I see no signs of over pressure. I'm a happy camper thanks to the good suggestions I got here on THR.

Thanks guys.:D
 
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