Why get a used S&W 686 over a new one?

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I've read lots of folks saying to get a used pre-lock S&W XYZ revolver instead of a current production one.

I guess my question is: Why? Are the internal locks so inherently bad that it makes the firearm less reliable? What other reasons, besides the lock, make the pre-lock more desirable?

I'm looking for a nightstand gun, something to shoot at the range every once in awhile, and maybe one day enter a few local IDPA-type competitions. This won't be something that is carried at all, just a HD/range toy piece.

Opinions?
 
the locks just put a bad taste in everyone's mouth... there is no proof of them actually making the guns less reliable...That i am aware of...

As to why to buy one used rather than new... I would say you are getting a gun that is equally or more reliable and MUCH cheaper when compared to a new smith... New Smiths have gotten CRAZY expensive.
 
No lock, no MIM are the two biggest reasons people mention. I do like the older flash chromed hammers and triggers on older S&Ws versus the current MIM parts. It's not that I don't trust the MIM (if the QC is there, MIM will be fine, IMO), just that it looks much worse then the older parts.

And I do not like the lock. It marrs the looks of the gun and is just a literally pointless feature, IMO.
 
"What other reasons, besides the lock, make the pre-lock more desirable?"

Nostalgia for the good old days when everything was made better.

The pre lock guns can be a good bargain.

A lot of it is snobbery and politics.

I guess I'm one of those snobs. The internal lock guns are just uncool.
 
Borrowing from the other replies, I agree that they are:

Likely to be of be of equal or better quality,
cheaper, and
already broken in.
 
In these "old vs new" discussions, "better quality" usually refers to the fit and finish of the older guns. New guns might also have The Lock, but they shoot as well or better as they ever have.

As far as the lock, here are some thoughts from some of the best competitive wheelgunners out there. You can draw your own conclusions. Seems particularly relevant, since you mentioned IDPA might be in the cards at some point:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=110071

And regarding IDPA, a few other random things to consider:

1. The pinned front sight of newer 686s are relatively easy to swap out. Many find a fiber optic front sight much easier and quicker to see than the factory red ramp.

2. IDPA mandates that all original safety equipment must be on the gun. This includes the internal lock mechanism, so if the lock is an issue for you, buy pre-lock, rather than removing it from a new gun.

3. Older guns utilize hammer-mounted firing pins, whereas newer ones use frame-mounted pins. Taking the pin off the hammer lightens the hammer a wee bit, and IMO, there are some benefits to a lighter hammer. A newer gun, converted to DAO can utilize a very light hammer, and it's here where its benefits really become apparent.

4. The 686 is now also available as a 7-shooter. The extra capacity might be attractive, but you can only load to 6 in IDPA. You can use a 7-shot 686 in IDPA, you can only load (and reload) to 6, so you'd actually be handicapped with this gun.

5. Compensators, including ported barrels aren't IDPA-legal. Something to keep in mind when shopping for a used gun.

6. The 586 is the blued version of the 686, so you might consider it as well if you see a nice example.

7. S&W currently offers the 686 SSR. As the name suggests, it's another viable choice for IDPA/range use. You can likely buy a standard 686 and have it tuned & customized by a good 'smith for less than the SSR, but if you didn't want the hassle of getting it to a gunsmith, the 686SSR might be a good choice.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...57775_757751_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

Finally, if you're looking at used revolvers, check out the Revolver Checkout thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=1430
 
I am a revo guy and I have a 686 SSR and believe me I would trade mine for a pre lock anyday. The sleeved barrel on my slab side just doesnt shoot the same IMO. Mine even went in to the upgrade center, and yes it came back with a better trigger but the barrel swap didnt help one little bit.:banghead:
 
Most of it has been covered. I'll just add that my early (no dash) 686 is just plain smoother than the newer ones, both fit and finish, and mechanical function.
 
I think the biggest draw for me to the older Smiths is the character factor. My grandfather-in-law and I are really close and he has a lot of older Smiths, and after handling those a lot, the new ones in the store just don't feel the same. I think for me it's the character that a well used, maintained, and loved gun acquires over the years.

I feel a difference in the fit and mechanical function between the older and new ones, but I wonder if part of the difference is the revolver smoothing out over the course of being well used.
 
Agree with older ones having better feel and craftsmanship. The 7 shot 686 came out in the -4 version which still had the forged innards. The -5 has MIM but no lock with the -6 being the start of the lock. As noted the new ones are a lot more expensive. As some have noted one can get lightened hammers for the new ones and reduce the double action to rediculously low levels. I believe somewhere over at Enos Forum someone lightens the old style hammer mounted firing pin hammers, too.

Grant Cunningham, who tunes revolvers, has mentioned recently he would not buy a gun with the lock due to what he has heard and seen. Also, Jerry Miculek the S&W shooter, recently was shown using a gun sans lock.

Ultimately, it is up to you but I would suggest looking at the older and newer models and deciding, then.
 
Call me a snob but the older S&W's are just better guns. They've cheapened the newer guns in several ways but the prices continue to climb. Even the lettering is crappy looking. Even at the present inflated speculator prices, the older guns are less expensive than the newer ones. I'll buy Bangor-Punta era guns all day long before anything with the infernal lock.
 
MY MAIN BEEF WITH THE LOCK IS SAFETY . . . MINE!

An earlier poster on this thread mentioned he'd seen no proof that the locks ever made the new guns less reliable. Well . . . the proof IS out there. Doing a "search" on the issue on this forum or the smith-wesson forum would turn up the threads where people posted this problem occurring to them.

Naturally, S&W folks ain't gonna want to talk about the guns sent back to them with the little flag at "half-mast" and the guns locked up with no way to even open the cylinder. This stuff is maddening at the plinking range . . . but if it happened when the gun had to be employed to save one's life it would be deadly! Yep, when it happens the guns lock up with the triggers partially pulled. NOT GOOD.

IMHO, a d__m lock on the side of a revolver makes as much sense as having a d__m lock on a parachute. When one needs either to work INSTANTLY . . . they've both gotta work or you are going to die.

BTW . . . in the smith-wesson forum classified section, one Smith collector is now making "The Plug" which fits perfectly into the d__m "weep hole" left after one removes the internal lock mechanism from their post-2002 revolvers. Makes the left side of the gun look better and eliminates the risk of the gun locking up on ya too!

Frankly, with all the vintage, hand-crafted Smith revolvers floating around out there I see ZERO reason to purchase a new S&W revolver until the company makes their guns SAFE again . . . safe for ME that is. When I pick it up, it HAS to work NOW . . . every time.
 
Well for the use you have in mind, it might not matter, but the issues are much larger then just the lock (which doesn't bother me that much because it's easily gotten rid of). However, you can't easily get rid of MIM lockwork, two-piece / crush thread fitted barrels with EDM shallow rifling, and other changes that were made to reduce manufacturing costs. We are told that cost-cutting = better quality, but having inspected the insides of S&W products made from the Civil War to present, I don't believe it. Better materials, yes. Better overall workmanship? I doubt it.

I also like to save money when I can, and you can often find an excellent condition, used revolver for much less then a new one.

Fortunately buyers have a choice. If you think a new gun is enough better to justify the cost by all means buy one. That will make one more older revolver available for those who favor "old-time quality" over new. There is no reason everyone shouldn't be happy... ;)
 
there are so many reasons not to buy a new Smith.

The lock is dangerous and idiotic. A brain damaged monkey can figure out that a lock working on the same rotational axis as the recoil of the gun can set itself. Add the ugliness and the symbolism of their capitulation with the gun banners and that shouldbe enough not to buy a new one.

Used is cheap. I got an older 686 police trade in. Carried alot, shot a little. 400 bucks.

As the Fuffster said, no MIM parts, two piece barrels and all of the other cost saving things that they incorporate in order to make an extra buck.

If you buy an old enough Smith 357 you can have one of the finest revolvers made.
Or you can buy a new wheelgun, with all of the manufacturing corners cut, lousy or non existent QC, an idiotic lock.

As for me, I will not purchase any gun from the former-artists-known-as Smith-&-Wesson
 
The pre locks hold their resale value too. As more of the new junk is put out there, the price on the good stuff continues to climb. TJ
 
If you are considering a pre-loved 686, check out the 586, too. A finely blued S&W revolver is a thing of beauty and American craftsmanship.
 
Quote:
Used S&W is almost as expensive as a new one at gunshows.

not in my part of the world

and even if they were they are still better buys
Click to expand...

In my area, it depends on the S&W in question. .38 K Frames can be found for dirt cheap. I picked up a 15-3 last year for $309, and a Transitional K Frame .38 last week in great shape for $235. 41 Magnum N Frames turn up now and then for $500 as well. Model 28s are usually under $425 too.

.357 Magnum K and L frames are a different story. A used prelock, preMIM 686 used to sell for $375 - $425 everyday of the week up until 2 years ago. Now, the price of used 686s routinely run $600 - $750. I saw a 6" 686-1 last year for $800.

I did see a 586-3 not long ago for $500, but it was completely beat to crap: the front sight was busted off and the gun had loads of end shake. No thanks.

If I could locate a mechanically solid 586 for $500 or less, I'd be all over it.
 
A couple more questions:
are there any current production 357 revolvers that would be considered as "classic" as the pre-lock 686?

Does anyone know of a good shop in the houston area that would carry reasonably priced pre lock 686/586s?
 
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