Why is .22 lr rimfire ammo considered dirty?

[Ben86]

Compared to centerfire ammo, rimfire is dirty. It is a combination of dirty ignition primer, powder that is usual not fine grade stuff to say the least, bullet lube, lack of bullet jacketing, and gun designs that seem to trap crud in the action more readily than centerfire guns.

That said I hardly clean my .22s. Mainly because I don't depend on them for my safety, I shoot them more often than my centerfire guns, and they keep on going and ask for more no matter how I treat them. Gotta love em.

 

[stinger 327]

My failure rate for 22 ammo seems low compared to some of the stories I've heard online.

Honestly I might get one dud in a 500 round bulk pack, if that. I have never had a dud using anything from CCI. And this is from probably around 25,000 rounds of 22 ammo through several different guns. Winchester, Federal, Remington, you name it.

I did have one bulk pack of Remington Golden Bullets several years ago that was honestly a dud in every magazine though.

I think that most 22 ammo problems are from light firing pin strikes.

Using CCI Stingers and haven't had any problems with this ammo. Winchester jammed on me and Federal. Subsonic loads had a few but that is to be expected since they are low powered and might not fully eject shell.

 

[fortyluv]

I find it difficult to sleep in the house with a dirty gun in the safe.

LOL. Been a long time lurker. But I registered just to "ditto" the above comment.

 

[stinger 327]

I find it difficult to sleep in the house with a dirty gun in the safe.

LOL. Been a long time lurker. But I registered just to "ditto" the above comment.

 

[scythefwd]

Its about the whole "rimfire is not reliable thus bad for SD" thing that comes up all the time.

What percent of .22lr ammo fails to fire because the ammo is bad. (Not due to a gun issue)

Has this been inflated into mythical proportions or is truly a real issue?

All ammo fails from time to time. I've had golden sabers in .40 fail to go bang and thats thought of as top shelf ammo. Though the percent that fails is well below 1%.

So what do you all think. Has anyone kept track of this when they have been out shooting?

Diggers, it depends on the ammo. My Anschutz, hardly a cheaply built crap rifle, gets as high as 10% failure on some brands of ammo. I have noticed this more with cheap thunderbolts than with the aguila stuff I shoot (never 1 failure in this gun). On the other hand, my mossberg 44 hasn't had a misfire in as long as I can remember. Neither has my rough rider. Those get fed thunderbolts almost exclusively. I don't think it's a problem with the gun, but it could be a difference in the gun and how hard they strike.

As to people that clean their .22lr's every time they shoot..... go ahead if you want to. Just remember that there are benchrest shooters, and damn good ones at that, that never clean a .22 until the accuracy starts to drop off. These guys live for 1 hole groups that aren't ragged even.

 

[stinger 327]

Diggers, it depends on the ammo. My Anschutz, hardly a cheaply built crap rifle, gets as high as 10% failure on some brands of ammo. I have noticed this more with cheap thunderbolts than with the aguila stuff I shoot (never 1 failure in this gun). On the other hand, my mossberg 44 hasn't had a misfire in as long as I can remember. Neither has my rough rider. Those get fed thunderbolts almost exclusively. I don't think it's a problem with the gun, but it could be a difference in the gun and how hard they strike.

As to people that clean their .22lr's every time they shoot..... go ahead if you want to. Just remember that there are benchrest shooters, and damn good ones at that, that never clean a .22 until the accuracy starts to drop off. These guys live for 1 hole groups that aren't ragged even.

Who makes better .22 LR hypervelocity ammo CCI or Aguila?

 

[scythefwd]

Stinger - Honestly I wouldn't know. I avoid the hypervelocity stuff. I tend to stick to subsonics when I can find it around here. All of my .22lr's are bolt guns and I don't have to worry about it having enough umph to work the action. Speed isn't everything, though it is a necessary component of shooting. I'd recommend you find whatever works well in your gun(s) and shoot that without worrying about speed. Accuracy is worth worrying about, velocity... not so much when shooting paper.

 

[Ben86]

I also don't use hypervelocity much. There isn't much of a ballistic gain(especially with the super light bullets) and they accelerate wear and tear on your guns. My favorite is the CCI velociter. I like it because it uses a 40 bullet but still propels it to about 1435 fps out of a rifle. I have them as .22 premium cartridges that I would save if I was trying to stretch my .22s to their power limit if using them for SD(though I forbid that) or using them to hunt something that is a little too big for the caliber (I also forbid this under normal circumstances).

My favorite .22 loading is the federal hp bulk pack. I've had the least failures with those and they seem to be of better overall quality than the other bulk packs (bullets seated more firmly, better brass, more consistent powder, etc.)

 

[stinger 327]

I also don't use hypervelocity much. There isn't much of a ballistic gain(especially with the super light bullets) and they accelerate wear and tear on your guns. My favorite is the CCI velociter. I like it because it uses a 40 bullet but still propels it to about 1435 fps out of a rifle. I have them as .22 premium cartridges that I would save if I was trying to stretch my .22s to their power limit if using them for SD(though I forbid that) or using them to hunt something that is a little too big for the caliber (I also forbid this under normal circumstances).

My favorite .22 loading is the federal hp bulk pack. I've had the least failures with those and they seem to be of better overall quality than the other bulk packs (bullets seated more firmly, better brass, more consistent powder, etc.)

Using them for SD? What's SD?

 

[Ben86]

By SD I mean self defense. That's High Road short hand for you.

 

[stinger 327]

Compared to centerfire ammo, rimfire is dirty. It is a combination of dirty ignition primer, powder that is usual not fine grade stuff to say the least, bullet lube, lack of bullet jacketing, and gun designs that seem to trap crud in the action more readily than centerfire guns.

That said I hardly clean my .22s. Mainly because I don't depend on them for my safety, I shoot them more often than my centerfire guns, and they keep on going and ask for more no matter how I treat them. Gotta love em.

Well .22 LR's are fun to shoot as long as you don't get alot of misfires and you get to choose from a whole variety of different kinds of .22 LR ammo. It won't cost a fortune to shoot .22 LR's all day.

 

[stinger 327]

By SD I mean self defense. That's High Road short hand for you.

Well for self-defense if it has to be a mouse gun better than no gun a .25 ACP centerfire is much more reliable. But If you had to use a .22 LR North American Arms has those Mini Revolvers and those are quality made pieces that are easy to carry. At least with the revolver design if the .22 bullet doesn't ignite you just keep pulling the trigger until the next round goes of. instead of having the auto jam and having to clear that then it's too late.

I would use the highest velocity .22 LR I could fine which at the time is Aguilar in hollow point or solid point at 1,750 but of course it would be less in these mouse barrels. But I have seen what one of these NAA mini revolvers can do using an old .22 LR. 32 grain stinger HP and it's pretty devistating considering the size of the gun and is something you can ALWAYS easily carry with you. The bullet went through two of those work horse items they use on the road with a light on top-I don't know what you call them but the stinger went through both sides had that been someone's face

Also I notice now that CCI is making the Stinger now in segmented HP32 grains where it is suppose to break up into three pieces. Before it was just a .32 grain HP single bullet. But this makes me wonder if they changed packaging (Marketing product different now?) because back in 1999 CCI was making a bullet that does the same thing break up into 3 pieces and they called it Qwik Shok in an orange/red box of 50. Now I do not see that packaging any more but the shell casings of this bullet are still gold in color like the original Qwik Shok were wheras I believe the segmented .22 LR from CCI is gold in color. The other stinger is still silver in color-the casing that is.

 

[Ben86]

If I had to use a .22lr for SD it would preferably be out of a rifle, not out of a tiny handgun. I've tested hollow points out of my .22 handguns and none of them even expand at all, even CCI. But they do penetrate enough so they are usable I guess if I had to for some inconceivable reason. Out of a rifle they aren't so bad, and expand pretty reliably.

I've seen a lot of ammo designs come and go with the market trends.

 

[stinger 327]

If I had to use a .22lr for SD it would preferably be out of a rifle, not out of a tiny handgun. I've tested hollow points out of my .22 handguns and none of them even expand at all, even CCI. But they do penetrate enough so they are usable I guess if I had to for some inconceivable reason. Out of a rifle they aren't so bad, and expand pretty reliably.

I've seen a lot of ammo designs come and go with the market trends.

I agree rifle is better but if you didn't have that option what would be the next ideal instrument in .22 LR?

 

[bigfatdave]

carbine, followed by a really long pistol

 

[stinger 327]

carbine, followed by a really long pistol

If you ended up with pistol which .22 LR would be your preference?

 

[bigfatdave]

If you ended up with pistol which .22 LR would be your preference?

Do I have to conceal it?
Because if not I'm taking the one I shoot best and ballistics be damned - a tinkered-with Ruger mkIII with a 5.5" bull barrel, I can hit a tennis ball 9/10 times at 20 yards as it swings about on the string, I figure I can hit most moving targets at similar ranges too. Load that up with the hottest stuff that will function reliably and it is about 59,237 times better than no gun at all.

If I had to conceal, probably my Walther/Umarex p22 loaded up with something hotter than my plinking ammo, stingers or velocitors most likely, reliability testing and the tweaks from the p22 bible over on rimfirecentral would be in order ... I can't do the tennis ball trick with that one, but as a get off me gun it is about 30,106 times better than no gun.

That assumes no conversion kits for my existing carry guns, of course ... but realistically I have guns far more appropriate to carry or self defense, Three of them dedicated carry guns with the appropriate gear.
One of them is smaller than the p22, another is the same size with a better grip, and the last is still easily concealable.
With a KT p32, A Walther PPS, and a Citadel officer's size 1911, I don't see why in the world I'd be packing a rimfire for self-defense, unless I was forced to the NAA mini-revolver (which is a filthy mess to clean up after shooting, to address the OP) which is barely smaller than the p32 and only a bit more concealable.

 

[stinger 327]

Do I have to conceal it?
Because if not I'm taking the one I shoot best and ballistics be damned - a tinkered-with Ruger mkIII with a 5.5" bull barrel, I can hit a tennis ball 9/10 times at 20 yards as it swings about on the string, I figure I can hit most moving targets at similar ranges too. Load that up with the hottest stuff that will function reliably and it is about 59,237 times better than no gun at all.

If I had to conceal, probably my Walther/Umarex p22 loaded up with something hotter than my plinking ammo, stingers or velocitors most likely, reliability testing and the tweaks from the p22 bible over on rimfirecentral would be in order ... I can't do the tennis ball trick with that one, but as a get off me gun it is about 30,106 times better than no gun.

That assumes no conversion kits for my existing carry guns, of course ... but realistically I have guns far more appropriate to carry or self defense, Three of them dedicated carry guns with the appropriate gear.
One of them is smaller than the p22, another is the same size with a better grip, and the last is still easily concealable.
With a KT p32, A Walther PPS, and a Citadel officer's size 1911, I don't see why in the world I'd be packing a rimfire for self-defense, unless I was forced to the NAA mini-revolver (which is a filthy mess to clean up after shooting, to address the OP) which is barely smaller than the p32 and only a bit more concealable.

Yes this would involve conceal carry. So no rifle. What is the specs. on velocitors? Is that a CCI round? P.22 who makes that any pics? I know what the Ruger MKIII looks like but the Walther and others I haven't seen or know what they look like.

 

[bigfatdave]

Walther p22


CCI Velocitor


Still doesn't change the fact that I can't imagine moving down to a .22 for carry, target guns are too big and the tiny .22 guns aren't reliable enough in most cases, and I've got centerfire pistols stocked for the express purpose of having portable defensive handguns.
The only time I would carry a .22 would be for small game, and it would be the mkIII, probably carried openly or under a jacket, I can't imagine that gun going IWB.

Of course, if Kel Tec ever gets their PMR30 out, that would change everything ... I'll be picking up one of those the moment KT makes a matching carbine and/or a .22LR conversion, or maybe just because I want one - 30 rounds of .22magnum in a flush-fit magazine are nothing to laugh at, and the thing might be thin enough for me to carry, even.

But it is the size of a large duty pistol, hardly a mousegun regardless of caliber.

 

[stinger 327]

Walther p22
View attachment 494481

CCI Velocitor
View attachment 494482

Still doesn't change the fact that I can't imagine moving down to a .22 for carry, target guns are too big and the tiny .22 guns aren't reliable enough in most cases, and I've got centerfire pistols stocked for the express purpose of having portable defensive handguns.
The only time I would carry a .22 would be for small game, and it would be the mkIII, probably carried openly or under a jacket, I can't imagine that gun going IWB.

Of course, if Kel Tec ever gets their PMR30 out, that would change everything ... I'll be picking up one of those the moment KT makes a matching carbine and/or a .22LR conversion, or maybe just because I want one - 30 rounds of .22magnum in a flush-fit magazine are nothing to laugh at, and the thing might be thin enough for me to carry, even.
View attachment 494483
But it is the size of a large duty pistol, hardly a mousegun regardless of caliber.

I have never tried the Velocitor. Aguila has one in that 1,400 fps but I don't know if it is a 40 grain. I believe it is at 1,470 fps?
Winchester has a Super X brand one at 37 grains at 1330 and a 40 grain at 1330.

Winchester has a 1,600+ but it's 26 grains now that a first for me that light and almost as fast as the Stinger HP at 1,640 or the Stinger segmented HP at 1,640.
Yellow Jackets are hot somewhere in the 1,500 fps range but arent' 40 grains.

That Kel Tec .22 WMR pistol looks nice and not a bad price. I have a NAA Mini Master revolver 4 inch that shoots both .22 LR and .22 Mag but when I use the .22 Mag the pin to the cylinder becomes loose so I have to push it in after every shot and the capacity is 5 shots. I also get more misfires for some reason when I use the .22 MAG cyclinder and hardly any in the .22 LR cylinder.

The Walter I have never seen or heard anything about that pistol.

 

[bigfatdave]

I have a NAA Mini Master revolver 4 inch that shoots both .22 LR and .22 Mag but when I use the .22 Mag the pin to the cylinder becomes loose so I have to push it in after every shot and the capacity is 5 shots. I also get more misfires for some reason when I use the .22 MAG cyclinder and hardly any in the .22 LR cylinder.

You should call NAA about that, I've heard good things about their customer service.

 

[stinger 327]

You should call NAA about that, I've heard good things about their customer service.

I just might do that.

 

[Ben86]

I agree rifle is better but if you didn't have that option what would be the next ideal instrument in .22 LR?

That would be my ruger 22/45.

If I had to conceal it I'd wear it in a shoulder holster. If I needed something smaller I'm not sure what I'd go with. I haven't put much thought into this, as I never expect to be in that situation. Maybe a berreta jetfire? I dunno.

 

[stinger 327]

That would be my ruger 22/45.

If I had to conceal it I'd wear it in a shoulder holster. If I needed something smaller I'm not sure what I'd go with. I haven't put much thought into this, as I never expect to be in that situation. Maybe a berreta jetfire? I dunno.

Yes a Beretta Jetfire Mod. 20