fatcat4620
Member
What about a SBS converted saiga 12 with 20 round drum?
Why is there no "Thumper"?
- Thread starter Balrog
- Start date
- Status
Making ammo significantly more expensive, and less common, won't lead people to shoot more.
henschman
Member
A short-barreled AR in .50 Beowulf, .458 SOCOM, or .450 Bushmaster fits the bill about perfectly.
Of course a lightweight, high velocity round like 5.56 is plenty effective, and has less recoil longer effective range, and higher capacity to boot, which makes more sense to me for the carbine/PDW role than a big heavy thumper round.
Of course a lightweight, high velocity round like 5.56 is plenty effective, and has less recoil longer effective range, and higher capacity to boot, which makes more sense to me for the carbine/PDW role than a big heavy thumper round.
highlander 5
Member
I seem to remember someone trying to sell an M1 Carbine converted to 45 Win mag,but the project never seemed to get out of the idea stage. My first thought was the 450 Bushmaster when I read the description.
RPRNY
Member
I don't know what Jeff Cooper would have made of it, but that's sure as hell a Thumper in my books! It will most certainly fall foul of the "lightweight" requirement however.
Cosmoline
Member
It's an interesting round but so far I haven't seen it in the flesh or seen much re. its performance. I did use it to good effect against mutants in STALKER, though ;-)
JustinJ
Member
Without a can a rifle caliber cartridge in a short barrel rifle is a pretty terrible home defense weapon unless one believes a potential for disorientation during a defensive scenario is a good thing.
Certaindeaf
member
How about those old .351 and .401 Winchester autoloaders. Pretty neat rigs.
I'm kind of turned on by the idea of a .458 SOCOM in a suppressed SBR configuration. I've never shot one though, and can't comment on how well it shoots.
To me, this is the closest to Cooper's Thumper that I've seen.
To me, this is the closest to Cooper's Thumper that I've seen.
Have you shot one? Its not a 5.56 (and of course doesn't hit like one on the other end). It is far from uncontrollable or something that one cannot make follow up shots with. The ability to make follow ups is going to be mostly a matter of shooting technique. This is a beowulf but you get the idea. The guy in the video below doesn't appear to have anything approaching the worlds best technique and you'll note he is hardly being tossed around. It is not as fast as you'll see folks shooting a 5.56 but its not even as fast as you can shoot the big bores either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dofPOFM8i4k&feature=fvwp&NR=1
For SD, general combat, and most things I'd gladly take 5.56 or if I wanted to step it up, I'd rather a 6.8 SPCII or a .308. However, if one is envisioning coopers "Thumper" these cartridges are closer to the 1800 FPS from a 10" barrel, optimistically to be had from a 44 auto mag, that Cooper wrote of. Cooper did call for a folding stock, so maybe one of the Sig 556 guns Tony Rumore converted to 458 SOCOM would be better (although I think that project was abandoned as I haven't heard anything about it in a long time). The SOCOM et al also tend to fail the 20 round box mag requirement.
You just need this. It gives you 30 rounds BTW I am being factious so please don't waste time telling me all the reasons it is impractical. I know. I suppose a smaller drum, along the lines of the saiga 10 round drums could be made that wouldn't be so unwieldy and would offer a capacity increase. For tasks I'd use a .458 SOCOM for, I personally am content with 10 rounds.
View attachment 637328
meanmrmustard
Member
Yes I have. My statement wasn't an opinion. Recoil is subjective, and to me there's better rounds for the HD role. Personally, I don't prefer a rifle for that cause indoors, but I like 556 for that purpose. I can fire it quickly, accurately, and if I'm already at a high stress level, I need those two things in order to save some bacon. The recoil of the 458 isn't bothersome physically, but I find it hard to connect for more than one shot. That's me, ymmv. Or maybe I suck, but not with 556.Have you shot one? Its not a 5.56 (and of course doesn't hit like one on the other end). It is far from uncontrollable or something that one cannot make follow up shots with. The ability to make follow ups is going to be mostly a matter of shooting technique. This is a beowulf but you get the idea. The guy in the video below doesn't appear to have anything approaching the worlds best technique and you'll note he is hardly being tossed around. It is not as fast as you'll see folks shooting a 5.56 but its not even as fast as you can shoot the big bores either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dofPOFM8i4k&feature=fvwp&NR=1
For SD, general combat, and most things I'd gladly take 5.56 or if I wanted to step it up, I'd rather a 6.8 SPCII or a .308. However, if one is envisioning coopers "Thumper" these cartridges are closer to the 1800 FPS from a 10" barrel, optimistically to be had from a 44 auto mag, that Cooper wrote of. Cooper did call for a folding stock, so maybe one of the Sig 556 guns Tony Rumore converted to 458 SOCOM would be better (although I think that project was abandoned as I haven't heard anything about it in a long time). The SOCOM et al also tend to fail the 20 round box mag requirement.
You just need this. It gives you 30 rounds BTW I am being factious so please don't waste time telling me all the reasons it is impractical. I know. I suppose a smaller drum, along the lines of the saiga 10 round drums could be made that wouldn't be so unwieldy and would offer a capacity increase. For tasks I'd use a .458 SOCOM for, I personally am content with 10 rounds.
How the gent in the video shoots has no bearing on how I shoot. He isn't being shot at, harassed, or threatened. His family isn't counting on making the hits count, and I'm going to blatantly assume he's not experiencing the stress issued from altercation. Stress, close quarters, possible darkness, and situational self awareness are things that come up in an HD scenario. I don't want to combat muzzle rise and target acquisition as well. In that case, the 556 "thumps" plenty for this shooter.
I have not, however, shot the .50 Beowulf.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
At nearly 11 lbs (empty), not a lightweight gun.
kriss super v.
http://www.kriss-usa.com/products/carbines/vector-crb-45-acp
http://www.kriss-usa.com/products/carbines/vector-crb-45-acp
doc2rn
Member
FNH P90 might qualify...or any bullpup configuration.
tactikel
Member
Rondog, I love it! 45 rounds of .30 ball, then cold steel
My choice would also be a Saiga 12 ga with slugs, now that is a THUMPER !!
My choice would also be a Saiga 12 ga with slugs, now that is a THUMPER !!
tactikel
Member
Twinny, I'm not sure how discussing committing a felony ties in with a discussion about Jeff Cooper's idea of a HD rifle.
This is THR.
This is THR.
meanmrmustard
Member
What the hell? Do you realize that you're on a firearms forum? Cocaine is a hell of a drug!I'd rob a bag man for the mob, if I knew when and where he was, and if he was toting enough money.
I don't disagree at all that on a balance 5.56 is better suited for HD than 458/50 beowulf etc. I wouldn't feel bad if all I had was a SOCOM, but I wouldn't replace my 5.56 guns with one for that purpose.
It is far from settled that a shotgun is "best" for HD. In fact, the only advantage a shotgun has over many other options is price and power. When talking "best" I give little weight to price, but I recognize for some it could be very important in what they can actually get. The power advantage of the shotgun also comes with several drawbacks.
It is far from settled that a shotgun is "best" for HD. In fact, the only advantage a shotgun has over many other options is price and power. When talking "best" I give little weight to price, but I recognize for some it could be very important in what they can actually get. The power advantage of the shotgun also comes with several drawbacks.
- Status
