Why no love for the 7.62x54r???

[MISportsman]

I am starting this thread just for fun and curiosity...
In all of the outdoor forums why is there never any love for the 7.62x54r? Any discussion I read about its use for big game it is always said to be good for deer, but marginal at best for anything bigger and forget about anything with teeth. But to me a cartridge that has similar ballistics to the .30-06 and at range with the right bullet can almost hang with the .300 win mag with a slightly wider bullet should have no problem dispatching just about anything on the face of the earth! I have hunted deer with my mosin nagant and it makes very quick work of a Michigan whitetail, might even use it for black bear next fall too. I just wish someone would build a modern rifle chambered in it!

 

[BreechFace]

Should, like 30-06 be a perfect big game cartridge. I've never used one on game, but itself along with 7.92x57, 7.7x58, 303 British, 7.5 French, 6.5x55, 7.5 Swiss, etc should all do within reason as well as 30-06 with the proper bullet selection. I would say all the battle rifle cartridges of WWII would be great big game cartridges with the right bullets.

I have to wonder if a lot of these rifles got bad raps due to hunters using FMJ surplus ammo to try and hunt with.

 

[mcb]

Nothing wrong with the cartridge but most of the rifles and ammo on the market in that cartridge are not all that great for deer hunting. My M44, being a well used surplus rifle, is barely accurate enough and the FMJ ammo I have far from the best choice for deer. Its a fun range toy but for hunting I have more accurate rifles using much better ammo. But a better condition rifle with good ammo utilizing an expending bullet, the cartridge would work just fine. But not many people are making either right now as rimmed centerfires hunting cartridges in bolt actions are not supper popular in today's market.

 

[MISportsman]

Should, like 30-06 be a perfect big game cartridge. I've never used one on game, but itself along with 7.92x57, 7.7x58, 303 British, 7.5 French, 6.5x55, 7.5 Swiss, etc should all do within reason as well as 30-06 with the proper bullet selection. I would say all the battle rifle cartridges of WWII would be great big game cartridges with the right bullets.

I have to wonder if a lot of these rifles got bad raps due to hunters using FMJ surplus ammo to try and hunt with.

That could very possibly have a lot to do with it. I love all of the old battle cartridges of the early 20th century! The 7.62x54r has taken moose and Kodiak bear in Russia that would make Alaskan ones look small for over 100 years and the 6.5x55, 7x57, and 7.92x57 have taken moose and stag in Europe for just as long, but we need a fancy named cartridge and enough velocity from a $100 box of ammo to outrun a missle to hunt an antelope lol

 

[BreechFace]

but we need a fancy named cartridge and enough velocity from a $100 box of ammo to outrun a missle to hunt an antelope lol

Hey, I resemble that remark, I was just handling my 280ai last night.

But like you I really enjoy the 20th century wartime firearms, there was so much focus on small arms in that century that it is really neat to collect, target shoot and hunt with all the warhorses.

I say find some nice cup and core hunting ammo for your mosin and go out and kill a deer with it.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I load these for my Mosin nagant and my 1891 Argentine mauser. They would be dandy for big game, But i use my 30.06 it's lighter to carry.

 

[Rockrivr1]

I like 54R. A couple years ago I entered a Winter WWII shooting match. I used my trusty Mosin 91/30. Best score of 10 rounds at 100 yards wins. Didn't think I had a chance against the 03s. At the end of the day I won with a score of 98 5X. I was using heavy ball and I had a lucky day. With that kind of accuracy though I'd have no problems taking this rifle out hunting.

 

[illinoisburt]

It's very much the guns rather than the cartridge. No mass produced modern hunting rifles are chambered in the cartridge. The old surplus guns do work just fine but are generally not easy to scope nor are they particularly ergonomic compared with modern designs so they dont get a lot of love from the general hunting community.

That said the cartridge is more than capable for about anything on land in North America. I would not feel undergunned using it for even moose or bears with 203 grain soft points though iron sights may limit my effective range.

 

[.308 Norma]

"Why no love for the 7.62x54r???"

I just wish someone would build a modern rifle chambered in it!

If someone would build a modern rifle chambered in it, maybe there would be some love for it.
Not from me though. I already have a 30-30, a 308 Winchester, a 30-06, and a 308 Norma Mag. So I have anything a 7.62X54r will do pretty well covered.

 

[MISportsman]

Hey, I resemble that remark, I was just handling my 280ai last night.

But like you I really enjoy the 20th century wartime firearms, there was so much focus on small arms in that century that it is really neat to collect, target shoot and hunt with all the warhorses.

I say find some nice cup and core hunting ammo for your mosin and go out and kill a deer with it.

No offence, I also have my share of the fancy modern rifles including a nice tikka chambered in the manbun 6.5 lol and am currently working on yet another ar build... I just have a special place for the old warhorses

 

[MISportsman]

I load these for my Mosin nagant and my 1891 Argentine mauser. They would be dandy for big game, But i use my 30.06 it's lighter to carry.
View attachment 1038738

I'm going to pick some up and start loading them. I've been using the 180gr s&b, which are great and pretty accurate but a little overkill for deer

 

[eastbank]

ruger put their # 1 out in .303 british, it would not take much to make one in 7.62x53R. only chambering the barrel would do it as the bore is already .311-.312, i would buy one. i load my polish 44 and late russian 44 down to 30-30, 30-40 krag speeds.

 

[dh1633pm]

When I was young and poor, my trusty M39 was all I had. Still have it. It is accurate and loves .308 bullets. I don't see why it can't be used for bears and other large animals. Don't worry, I still have it.

 

[westernrover]

Rifles and bullets. I think 7.62x54R would be fantastic in a single shot like a Ruger No. 1 or a double, especially if it were to be built to take 65,000 psi (the No.1 could), but then there is still the problem of having a wide selection of .308" bullets, and very few .312". 303 and 7.62x54R share that problem. Sierra has 4 bullets for it and 39 for .308". Nosler has no bullets for it. Hornady has 3 bullets for it (one a FMJ) and 63 bullets for the .308". Barnes has no bullets for it. At this point, it's not going to regain popularity. People will keep shooting old Mosins, but nobody is going to introduce new rifles chambered in 54R and so nobody is going to make bullets for it either and a new-fangled, over-hyped fad cartridge has a better chance of becoming popular.

 

[Slamfire]

I shot one deer with a Finnish M27 and it worked. Those pre WW1 cartridges are all plenty powerful for deer and many other animals.

I think the main problem with the acceptance of the 7.62 X 54 R has been the availability of the rifles in that caliber. For years after WW1 cheap American made Russian rifles were sold by the DCM. After the Czar fell, both Westinghouse and Remington made M1891’s were kept by the US, and used as training rifles, because there simply were not enough M1903’s, or Krag’s, to go around!


These are American troops marching down the center of the road in London just after the entry of the US in WW1.

It is little known, but the American’s invaded Russia after WW1 and American troops in Arkhangelsk and in Vladivostok were carrying American made M1891’s.

This one made its way to Finland.



However, other than Russian rifles, I can’t think of an American made version, or one in a modern bolt action. The rimmed round would do well in a single shot, or double rifle, but there are lots more cartridges that will also work in those mechanisms.

And I think Nationalism is there. Americans have been distrustful of Russia since the creation of the country. Russia was either a Monarchy, which we did not like, or a Communistic country, which we don’t like, or a rival, which we don’t like regardless of Government or economic system.

My experience with the 7.62 is with these obsolete bolt actions and I am going to say there are real problems with rimmed rounds in repeating rifles. Depending on the manufacturer, I had rim lock in my Mosin Nagants. The mechanism as you know, has an interrupter which holds down the second cartridge in the stack so the rims won’t lock. And it works as long as everything is within tolerance. Sometimes the rims are a little wide, and then you get rim lock. That is a bugger.

Once the Germans came out with a rimless rifle round, all those legacy rimmed rifle rounds were instantly obsolescent. I have never handled a Russian army Dragunov sniper rifle to my recollection, so I don’t know how the Russian kept rim lock from happing in a box magazine. Somehow they did it.

This is a kludge, play a game and think of the number of failure mechanisms that will make this fail, in 60 seconds. And I am sure, they have all happened.



And, what does the 7.62 X 54R do that the 30-06 does not? Post WW1, M1917 Enfields are not as cheap as a Mosin Nagant, but they were cheap at the time.



And this is in 30-06, everyone is familiar with the 30-06, and it is the service round of the era, so why not go this route.

Then scoping a Mosin Nagant is an absolute problem, so, who is making modern, scope ready actions in 7.62 X 54R?

 

[Rule3]

Life Below Zero, Agnus Hailstone shoots one really well and no scope!

 

[Bfh_auto]

I am starting this thread just for fun and curiosity...
In all of the outdoor forums why is there never any love for the 7.62x54r? Any discussion I read about its use for big game it is always said to be good for deer, but marginal at best for anything bigger and forget about anything with teeth. But to me a cartridge that has similar ballistics to the .30-06 and at range with the right bullet can almost hang with the .300 win mag with a slightly wider bullet should have no problem dispatching just about anything on the face of the earth! I have hunted deer with my mosin nagant and it makes very quick work of a Michigan whitetail, might even use it for black bear next fall too. I just wish someone would build a modern rifle chambered in it!

The x54 hangs with the 30-06. There is a huge jump between both of them and any of the 30 cal magnums.
That being stated. The mission is fine for deer, elk, moose, etc. Just choose the correct bullet and shoot inside your abilities. You and the rifle will limit you more than the actual cartridge.
The only nice thing about a m44 is it's easy to carry.

 

[caribou]

Life Below Zero, Agnus Hailstone shoots one really well and no scope!
View attachment 1038782

Our whole family has a deep respect and love for 7.62x54r......by the case.

Agnes and her only Brown bear so far, a 10 footer with a 26 7/16ths skull, dry. Her M-39 and Czeck milsurp ammo.

32 years a Caribou hunter and still use my M-39 as needed.

 

[caribou]

Ive used a Mosin is every kind of condition, all year round to make a living. Ive shot most all kinds of ammo from different countrys and USA made is the worst for proper dimensions, particularly early Winchester made stuff.
A too large of rim wont seat in a Mosin bolt face. Since its inception,in 1891, the ammunition is manufactured to the thousandth's of an inch, and most all is very consistent in make. Billions apon Billions of this round have been made.

The interrupter on a Mosin is a working part and subject to breaking or when dirty, binding. The interrupter keeps the top cartridge rim above and clear of the rim of the next cartridge that is below, and holds it in place, and the second one is held down.....theres no rimlock with a Mosin that is not broken or dirty.

Both the Dragonov and the SVT-40 have a magazine with feed lips that have you load the rims ahead of the one in the magazine and push them down and then back to seat them, and they naturally stack correctly. The same feed lips are on DP-28 and DPM machinegun drums.

The 7.62x54r is far from obsolete; it is the longest lived modern cartridge to date.
The PKM belt fed machine gun is still chuggin them along as are various sniping rifles still in use in former soviet influenced country's.

 

[entropy]

In all of the outdoor forums why is there never any love for the 7.62x54r?

Never seen this one, eh?

https://russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com/

Slamfire, those troops in the pic are carrying M1903's.

 

[caribou]

Those American Troops look like they are carrying Krag rifles, in rimmed 30-40 Krag.

The straight down handle and the box magazine on the right side of the rifles are giveaways.

 

[entropy]

You're eyes are better than mine. Once you pointed out the box mags, I was like "Duh!" I was going off the cocking knob.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

Nothing the 7.62 Commie can do that the .30-06 can’t do better.

 

[entropy]

7.62 "Commie" would be 7.62x39, (and 7.62 x25) because 7.62x54R and 7.62x38R (7.62 Nagant, for the M1895 Nagant revolver) were developed for the Imperial Russian Army, not the Red Army. That they were used by the Soviets does not change that. Indeed, it proves that very little actual arms development happened in the Soviet Union. (the Federov M1916 was pre-revolution, and was quickly abandoned.)
They used a pre-regime rifle, with small changes to make it easier to manufacture, from 1918 to 1945. They did copy their own weapon (The PTRS) for the SKS, then copied the StG-44, adapting it to being produced buy vodka-sodden Ishevsk plant workers. The AN-94 Nikonov rifle was an interesting aside, but the AK-12, a more modular version of the AK74, is the current issue.

 

[caribou]

The Finns made excellent use of the 7.62X54r and Mosin recivers.
M-91's, M-24's, M-27's, M-28 and M28/30's and , finally, M-39's.

SAKO made excellent 7.62x54r rifles as did Valmet ,'VKT', with Tikka barrels.

Of course, My Winchester '95 was made for Russia in 7.62x54r