Why so many pocket guns from countries with little or no concealed carry?

[Shear_stress]

Has anyone else wonder why it is that European countries in particular were exporting so many "pocket guns" for a good chunk of the last century? It seems odd that countries with such tight restrictions on handgun ownership and even tighter restrictions on concealed carry should have exported so many .25 and .32 caliber pistols. Just look at the approximately 87 trillion copies of the Browning Baby (itself made in Belgium) alone.

Have European gun laws gotten radically tighter since the 1968 GCA created high legal hurdles for importing of small handguns into the U.S.? Obviously England's have, but it exported few pocket pistols to begin with. I don't mean to imply a causitive relationship between tighter European guns laws and the GCA, just to mark a point in time when small, imported guns were considered a "problem" in the U.S.?

 

[mete]

Germany in the 1920s had economic chaos ,real runaway inflation .Many people bought pocket pistols for defense for this reason.

 

[Moonclip]

I'd say in many cases when guns were designed/marketed in the later half of the 20th century in Europe, if they were pocket pistols, the guns main seling audience was intended to be the USA anyways.

 

[ChuckB]

Let's also remember that most major European gun manufacturers are suppliers to their police and military forces. Eurocops may like a small backup, too!

Chuck

 

[Shear_stress]

These answers make sense for good quality pistols, but what about concealable junk such as the RG line of pistols, in all their glory? Were these intended for mainly for export)?

It just seems odd to me that companies like Raven and their ilk came about because it was much harder to import Saturday Night Specials from overseas.

 

[ABBOBERG]

I think it was the 1968 GCA that put a stop to it. Now Beretta, Taurus etc. make the pocket guns on our soil. I talked to an ATF agent about this at this years SHOT show and he said that they must meet the "points" requirement to make them over there and then export them to the US. I ended up getting one of their "points" forms and did a caluculation on the Glock 26 and it failed! It must be that they make these guns on our soil??

 

[Moonclip]

Glock 26 is made in Austria currently. It barely makes the importation point quota. Notice the newer 3rd gen Glocks have "target" features that gain it more points like those shallow thumbrests in the gripframe and I believe a serrated trigger gains points too.

 

[atblis]

Glocks

I think that the Glocks come over in a slightly different form and then get "modified" state side. I remember hearing something about the sights getting changed.

 

[LightningJoe]

I understand that handguns are forbidden in Britain, but what are the carry laws in other European countries? Also, how much harmonization is there in the carry or anti-carry laws is there within the EU? What about non-EU European countries?

 

[CAnnoneer]

I think many European countries work on the principle of "don't ask, don't tell". People have guns; they just don't brandish them around. The traditions are to hide them and use them in civil wars and family vendettas.

 

[mini14jac]

Please don't use gun-grabber terminology like "Saturday Night Specials".
Terms like "Assault weapon" "Saturday Night Special" and "Junk Gun" have no place in the vocabulary of responsible gun owners.

An RG or Jennings or Raven may be all of the gun that some people can afford.
I well remember the time when $70 for a Jennings was a huge expense for my young married-with-children self.
They are not military grade guns, but they could well save your life some day.
The only thing that was accomplished by outlawing guns like the RG was keeping low income people from being able to afford a firearm.

(I've seen RGs that looked like they had been dragged behind a truck, but would still fire.)

Poor people are covered by the 2nd Amendment too.

Please don't feed the Libs.
They forget how to forage for themselves.

 

[goon]

mini14jac - thank you for putting that into perspective. Any gun that will fire is better than nothing at all and could end up being enough to save your life.

 

[jeff-10]

Just because the law in any given country doesn't provide for CCW doesn't mean tons of people don't do it. It wasn't long ago that in the US most places didn't allow for the carrying of any handguns but loads of people still did it.

 

[gvass]

"These answers make sense for good quality pistols, but what about concealable junk such as the RG line of pistols, in all their glory? Were these intended for mainly for export)?"

In the second part of the 20th century most of those "junk pocket pistols" are originally made for gas-alarm (blankfirer) pistols for the free European market.

In most European countries the ordinary people are allowed to buy only these non-lethal devices for CCW, no real handguns at all.

But most manufacturers also made such guns with non-barricaded barrels for US-Export until 1968.

Let's see this example:
www.tanfoglio.it

under Defence, you will find:
GT27: .25 ACP
GT28: 8 mm Blank

The very same gun with different barrel.

 

[Moonclip]

Italy allows you to own up to 3 handguns, CCW very limited. France allows handguns too but with restrictions as well as Spain and Belgium and some others, Switzerland of course.

I read a long time ago, don't know if current, that France allowed one to carry a hunting arm anywhere you wanted. Therefore some packed a hunting arms like a S&W 629 was considered and their hunting license! The writer said something like "I've been to the dock area of Marseilles(sp) before,and it could be considered a preserve for dangerous game"!

 

[pete f]

They really mean POCKET pistols. Both of my uncles who were merchants in sweden carried ALL the time every where they went. I asked about permits, and was told "permits do not apply to people like us...we are upstanding business people, it is just assumed that we will be careful and only use it if we need to." rough quotation from memory.

They never got more than a brief look at the borders when i traveled with them. They handed over the documents and would answer a question and the inspector would stiffen and nod and hand back their papers. one carried a mauser HsC in a vest pocket, the other had a small swedish pistol i had never seen. it was a husqvarna and was in appearance like the old savage .32 autos that my grandfather had. he carried this in his front pants pocket. they both said it was much agasint the law to carry a pistol for people, but those with "positions" really did not have anything to wo
rry about.

 

[c_yeager]

Please don't use gun-grabber terminology like "Saturday Night Specials". Terms like "Assault weapon" "Saturday Night Special" and "Junk Gun" have no place in the vocabulary of responsible gun owners.

These terms were coined by responsible gun owners in the first place.

In the second part of the 20th century most of those "junk pocket pistols" are originally made for gas-alarm (blankfirer) pistols for the free European market.

There are some really bizzare *alternative firearms* available in Europe. Guns that fire tear gas pelets, rubber bullets, and others that just make a loud bang. My dad used to carry a gas-gun when he was a paper boy in Seattle. I wish he'd kept it.

Remember also that a lot of the pocket guns being made in Europe are very old designs that originated in times when such things werent so heavily regulated. There hasnt been a whole lot of innovation in the pocket gun market in Europe. This is why American companies are responsible for the most recent additions to the design despite getting a late start.

 

[rudolf]

After WW1, the Versailles agreement prohibited Germans from owning larger caliber handguns than .32. They were allowed to buy and carry these pocket pistols. So everybody was buying them. Even the cops wore Walther PP's (Polizei Pistole). Carry was forbidden by Hitler and later in all of GErmany by the respective Governments. Nowadays, you will neither gat a permit to buy nor to carry a pocket pistol.

 

[Jim K]

"Why so many pocket guns from countries with little or no concealed carry?"

Money.

Jim

 

[gvass]

"Carry was forbidden by Hitler and later in all of GErmany by the respective Governments. Nowadays, you will neither gat a permit to buy nor to carry a pocket pistol."

It is a simplified version of the truth.

In general it is true, that the average German citizen can not get a CCW.

But rich and politically well-connected are always get one (New York City, Los Angeles-syndrome).

An average German hunter can get licence for 2 handguns, and allowed to carry while on hunt. They can even get licence for NAA minirevolvers and such pocket guns.