Why The .223 A.I.?

[CB900F]

Fella's;

I was passing the time of day with my smith the other day. During the course of the conversation, he proposed the .223 A.I. to me. Seeing as how I consider it to be very much wiser than not to be politically correct with one's smith, I didn't poo-poo the idea, just let it whimper & die a natural death.

Why would anybody want to A.I. the .223 in the first place? If you want the extra performance, the first thing that comes to mind is the .22PPC. Not only do you get faster, you also get one of the most inherently accurate cartridges in the world. I don't buy the argument that it's easier to do the A.I. either. It's only slightly more trouble to shorten the original .223 barrel & recut the chamber to the PPC configuration than it is to ream it to A.I. anyway. And you get a new throat anyway you want it.

Brass? C'mon, when you're at this level, the brass expense is minimal compared to the rest of the enchilada. This is like quibbleing over the cost of extra sour cream when ordering the Grande Plate at Mommacito Rio's.

I've obviously got a .223, or the smith wouldn't have suggested the conversion. I've also got a .220 Swift if I need more than the basic .223 can do. Or the 6mm, or the - well you get the idea. But, if I ever do shoot out the barrel of my .223, I think I'd just rebarrel in the same flavor, thank you veddy much.

900F

 

[dakotasin]

this is a question i asked almost word-for-word in the past, and did not get an answer that was satisfactory to me (i substituted 22-250 for 22 ppc, though).

as near as i can tell, the primary reasons for it were brass life, brass trimming, accuracy, and something different.

i can't argue the 'something different' thing, and it is viable enough.

brass life i'm not sure i buy. maybe there is better case life - but usually a 223 ack is a custom pipe and chamber. so, would a custom pipe and chambered 22-250 not also benefit from increased brass life? most comparisons are made between custom barrel and factory barrel.

case trimming... ack cases don't need as much trimming. however, trim your 22-250 to minimum specs, and you can just about shoot the life out of the case before your next trim. its a weak argument, but it can work.

accuracy... back to the custom vs factory barrel thing...

if/when somebody can give me another reason, i would like to hear it. i've kicked a 223 ack around before... and i am really good at rationalizing... but i just couldn't do it - and ended up w/ another 22-250.

 

[gringobaba]

Not all handloaders have the time or the interest to handload every round they fire. If you are an exlusive handloader, I agree that there is little to no reason to shoot the .223 AI, but if you like to load sometimes but don't like to have to load, the .223 AI has the advantage of a large supply of cheap plinking ammunition for when accuracy and performance are not at a premium, yet retains the ability to load for greater performance when needed.

Cheap plinking ammunition is not a big deal to many shooters - especially those who shoot groups exclusively - but I find it very useful for practicing field positions and on field targets (usually rocks) of unknown range. At the same time, I see no reason not to take advantage of the extra performance - slight though it is - of the .223 AI over the .223 when I do sit down to do some loading. The better stability with heavy bullets is more important to me than greater velocity with lighter bullets.

 

[Quintin Likely]

Most of the talk I've seen in regards to the .223 AI and .22 PPC were in reference to a platform where those are the two highest horsepower cartridges you can fit in 'em: an AR15 (this is pre 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC). Glen Zediker touches on the PPC and AI in his book, The Competitive AR15. The PPC was a bear to get working in an AR15, and the AI was mentioned as an easy, worthy upgrade to the AR15 match rifle shooter that for whatever reason isn't exploited very much, if at all.

 

[esheato]

CB900F, why didn't you just send me a PM?

Why the 223 AI? My reasons varied from logical to impulsive.

Technical benefits:

-increased brass life
-less trimming
-increased velocity
-affordable components
-reloading components available in bulk

In a pinch, if I run out of handloads, I can go to any store that sells ammunition and pick up a box of standard .223 Rem and it will get the job done.

Now for the irrational reasons. I just wanted to be a bit different. I didn't want the same old thing as everyone else. I was also curious about wildcatting, but wasn't ready for an all out wildcat. The AI is a "baby step" towards full fledged wildcatting.

Granted, I only get about 7-10% increased case capacity, but I think it's worthwhile when I can push a 40 grain bullet at nearly 4000 FPS with minimal recoil. Though, with the introduction of the .204 Ruger the .223 AI has been left behind. The only downfall with the .204 is that it is more susceptible to wind drift.

Ed

 

[xring44]

I suspect the additional 150/200 FPS velocity is the primary reason to go with the Ackly Improved.

The first post mentioned reaming a .223 chamber to .22 PPC, unfortunately the bolt face would also have to be altered to accomadate the .22 PPC round. I have considered this same conversion with the possibility of turning the .22PPC case head down to .223 diameter, kinda like the .284 winchester, a rebated rim. The steeper shoulder angle of the Ackly Improved cartridges do no feed as well as the unmodified version of the .223

 

[dakotasin]

yes, but...

most of these arguments are 223 vs 223 ack... my question is, if you need extra performance, and especially don't want the hassle of having to be an exclusive handloader, does 22-250 and 22 ppc not make more sense??

 

[esheato]

22-250-No. I wanted as little recoil as possible. You also have to factor in the extra ten grains of propellant with every loading. Trivial, I know...

22PPC-No. Brass cost and availability.

Ed

 

[dakotasin]

understand, i am not bashing the ack at all... i, and i suspect cb, is looking for a rational justification for choosing the 223 ack over the 22-250.

as i said before, if its just because its something different, then that's good 'nuff... but what i am looking for is what exactly does the 223 ack offer that the 'more popular' 22's don't (22-250, 220, especially)?

 

[gringobaba]

my question is, if you need extra performance, and especially don't want the hassle of having to be an exclusive handloader, does 22-250 and 22 ppc not make more sense??

Only when there is a reliable, diverse supply of plinking ammunition for < 20 cents per round - usually a lot less - can any cartridge become price-competitive with the .223 or .223 AI for the non-or-part-time reloader. The one and only advantage I can see of the .223 AI over the other fast .22s is the cost of plinking ammo for when I'm too busy to reload, and these days that's a pretty big advantage for me. For people with more time to put in at the bench, that advantage evaporates pretty fast. .223 AI is a niche cartridge, no doubt, but there are some people who have a need for just that niche.

 

[CB900F]

Esheato;

Didn't want to get accused of putting on my eyepatch & hijacking the original thread. Didn't PM because I wanted a full range of opinions from the board at large. Not that I wouldn't value your opinion all by itself, but it would become lonely sitting there without any company & would eventually waste away. Whereas now, we have a small community of opinions interacting in our THR village. The village is thriving and nurturing other opinions. Perhaps opinions left out in the cold can come in & feel welcome in our village.

That is, unless they are G-D Gun-grabbin opinions. Then our village will light the torches, wield the pitchforks, and hunt the monsters down in the dark. Strike that, no pitchforks. Substitute firearms of choice.

By the way, sometimes I satirize the DNC rhetoric, don'tcha know.

900F

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

I know a few folks who use the AI. I plan on going to it when I shoot out the barrel I have now.
The reason we do it to get that extra FPS. That means a great deal and make a big, big difference.
Now I shoot highpower rifle competitions and it is a platform many have gone to.
Now I do shoot service rifle for the most part but have been playing and trying out the spacegun this winter and actually shot it in a match for the first time the last two weekends. It is now a straight 223. But here is what some of us do.
We shoot the regular 223 cases in our rapids at 200 and 300 and when we get out to 600 we use the AI loads for the speed. The Berger 75vld's at around 3100 give you a very good round at distance.

You get the best of both worlds. One you get a very reliable feeding round with a standard 223 case in the autoloader in the rapids. And you get a great round when single feeding in the slowfires.
for bolt gunners well I have no ideal why but for the spacegun ar15 platform its a good deal.

Jon

 

[esheato]

what exactly does the 223 ack offer that the 'more popular' 22's don't (22-250, 220, especially)?

Nothing, I suppose. What do the WSM cartridges offer over traditional long actions calibers of comparable performance?

Substitute firearms of choice.

Can I use my Ackley?

Ed

 

[CB900F]

Esheato;

Aw, I in no way meant any of that as a slam on the AI. I really was wondering why someone would go to it.

Myself, I'd already had the Swift when I finally got the .223. I find the .223 fills the hole between the .22lr's & Mr. Swift quite nicely. But, with the Swift in the background, there's hardly any need for me to try to squeeze another few fps outta the .223. I can be quite content with loading off of max by 100 fps & extending barrel life into some rather more distant future.

900F

 

[esheato]

I in no way meant any of that as a slam on the AI.

I didn't take it as such. I was merely making a joke anyway.

In my mind, the .223 AI (being a semi-wildcat) does fit the gap between .22 LR and the big boys. For an intermediate distance varmint gun, it was exactly what I was looking for. A bit different, but still easily fed and maintained while providing a bit more velocity than average.

Next year, I'm looking into a .243 Ackley. Same reasons too. It would be my long distance varmint gun.

Ed

 

[dakotasin]

as i said, i wasn't trying to make an argument against the ack cases - i find them interesting. i was just trying to find out why someone would buy a 223, and then re-barrel to ack later. in your case, i know ack is an option from the factory, so it doesn't matter. i was trying to see why i would rebarrel to ack...

as for the wsm, they offer nothing over their respective counterparts (except in the case of cb900's favorite, the 270) but the brass is readily available, and loaded factory ammo is widely available.

 

[CB900F]

Esheato;

Might I suggest taking a good look at the 6mm Remington as well as the .243 Ackley for your future project. Several advantages there IMHO.

900F

 

[esheato]

i was just trying to find out why someone would buy a 223, and then re-barrel to ack later. in your case, i know ack is an option from the factory, so it doesn't matter.

For example, say you buy a gun and aren't quite satisfied with the performance. Drop it off with the 'smith and have him "improve" it for slightly better ballistics. Although, if you know enough about guns to be familiar with Ackley, I sincerely hope that you know enough to select the correct caliber from the start.

In my case, I looked at a list and picked the caliber I wanted.

Might I suggest taking a good look at the 6mm Remington as well as the .243 Ackley for your future project

Thanks. I'll definitely look into it.

Ed

 

[mr.trooper]

Why use ANY Ackly improved cartridge? Why bother with 10% (at best) increase in preformance when you could just use a cartridge that is already better?

Seriously. The 22-250, 220 swift, so on and so forth, already have that area covered.

 

[rbernie]

Why bother with 10% (at best) increase in preformance when you could just use a cartridge that is already better?

Seriously. The 22-250, 220 swift, so on and so forth, already have that area covered.

When you can make the 22-250 fit in the short-length action (<2.5" OAL), I'll buy into that argument.. Until then, the 223AI would seem to have at least *some* reason to exist, however much of a vertical market that may be....

 

[Car Knocker]

i was just trying to find out why someone would buy a 223, and then re-barrel to ack later.

I haven't dabbled with the AI's but wouldn't it just be a re-chamber rather than a re-barrel?

 

[dakotasin]

yes, but i was operating under the assumption you wouldn't go to the expense/hassle to re-chamber a factory pipe.

 

[M40A1]

I like the .223 AI over the larger .22-250 because it is a much more efficient case. You get velocity that is not that far behind the .22-250 but you use a whole lot less powder to get there. And if you get in a real pinch and don't have any .223 AI ammo loaded you can still shoot factory .223 if your chamber is set up properly. The .223 AI will also allow smaller action than the .22-250.

 

[JohnKSa]

.223AI vs 22-250

1. Cheaper brass.
2. Cheap and readily available ammo if you don't feel like reloading.
3. Less powder usually means better barrel life--it always means less $$.
4. Fits in a short action.
5. I'm betting that you get better case life.
6. Lower recoil.
7. If you already have a .223, you can convert it to AI more easily and cheaply than buying a 22-250.