Why the continuing ammo shortage?

[lobo9er]

Some folks really need to study supply and demand free market economics

I'd say some aren't playing by rules of our Free Market System. In fact I think i remember bush saying we are going to have to do a few things that go against the free market system to save it when he first brought in one his czars i'm pretty sure it was the first car czar, also I was para pharsing but I was pretty close.

 

[huntsman]

I haven't seen .45 acp ammo sold locally in over a year(except for defense ammo, pricey stuff). I sold and traded my .380 ACP pistols because I couldn't shoot them anymore. I used to shoot my .45 about once a month or so, maybe 100 rounds. I haven't shot it in about 9 months when I ran out of .45 ball ammo.

WOW that's sad, I've been able to maintain about a 500 round stock pile of .380 ammo and in August I finally was able to get a .45 and now I've got 500 rounds of .45acp built up. I only buy a couple boxes a week but I try to buy at least 3 times a month.

 

[docsleepy]

RELOAD!

I'm helping a friend get set up to do .45ACP. Dies are only $25-35 depending on exactly which. Trimmer another $10. He'll use my press and a dipper to measure powder and voile'! He's back in ammo.

Well worth my time to learn to reload. Started with .223, now I do 9mm, 38special, soon 6PPC. Relaxing and profitable for me.

 

[lobo9er]

I am starting to save my pennies for reloading gear. I like to burn through target load in the winter and I am willing to bet it would be cheapper than the walmart $22 for 100 rounds stuff too and in the end be better quality.

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

still a bunch of tools going into walmart with their whole family and each one buying the max. 6 boxes

 

[docsleepy]

If you're actually planning to hit the EXACT center of a target with a RIFLE, there is exactly

ZERO

reason to purchase ammunition from Walmart.


(with a pistol, this doesn't apply. The accuracy of hand/pistol combination is pitiful, so use any ammo you wish)


With a RIFLE of good quality, you cannot BUY ammunition as good as you can make. $1.50/shot match ammo in my rifle is not as good as $0.30/shot ammo that I reloaded myself.

Buy a $100 Lee "anniversary" kit, buy the collet die set (neck size only, for a bolt action) and get good quality Hornady or Sierra or other "match" bullets and you're going to produce ammo that is absolutely NO comparison to Walmart.

Using "UMC" 50cent/shot .223 my rifle will group about 1.5 inches at 100 yards. Using Match ammo, $1.50/shot, it may get around 0.5 inches. I can get 3/8 or so using my best tuned homemade reloads, and it is 30 cents per shot.

Give it a try!

 

[docsleepy]

For a PISTOL, I can reload below Walmarts BEST price, and I always have the ability to crank out a box of ammo whenever I want.


This sounds funny, but in life you have to "manage" your own desires/satisfaction, or else you go broke. You won't make it into the "millionaire next door" category if you spend all your money at Walmart.


Yes, it takes me 30 minutes or more to make up a batch of 9mm rounds. But that means that while I'm at the range I appreciate each shot much more because I had to make that round. I don't just go bang-bang-bang for the kinesthetic stimulus of the ignition of the round. That saves me $$ as well.

There are other, more important things in life, and I want to put my treasure where it really counts, not just in pleasure-seeking hobbies! Reloading (for a pistol) is one means toward that goal.

 

[iScream]

Obama administration and bush's gave them alot of $ so i am sure they are aquinted. That part is fact. Now this part is speculation on my part. Maybe someone had an idea that threat of an assault weapon ban or ammo crisis may drum up some business. I am probably wrong but I dont think that is that out there of an idea. Now if I sold snow cones and my friend started a rumor snow was melting forever and theres no way to make it cuz that may become illegal I might stand to make some money I'd say. People might want to buy one to put in the freezer to enjoy next year.

I think we did this to ourselves by concocting and spreading conspiracy theories.

-Chris

 

[bababooey32]

This is supply and demand and there are cheaper places to get ammo. That means it is a positive thing when members of this online community point out that some sellers are charging much higher prices than others. That's how we as consumers can bring prices back down. If we communicate where to get ammo at decent prices and what shops to avoid, it will help us all since there should be fewer people willing to pay the higher prices.

True. So accusing them of a crime (which gouging can be) is irresponsible and potentially libelous.

You know, I understand what the corect definition of gouging is and I know the term isn't used properly around here at times. That bothers me far less than the few people who think it's their job to get into every thread where they see it and start jumping on people.

I can turn that around and tell you: "While I understand that prices are higher then before, and many people failed to foresee this coming, those things bother me far less than people who brazenly accuse retailers of being immoral and gouging for setting market-clearing prices without having a centilla of a clue regarding basic economic principles. I think it behooves the members of THR to ensure that hyped up charges of gouging are met with rational discussions of the economics involved so they can make their own decision."

Fair enough?

 

[EddieNFL]

Lots of closet liberals here.

 

[youngda9]

Just billionares and millionares making big jack off the Backs of us, the people.

Ahhh, the wealth envy seems to be such a motivator for you. All those dang "fortunate" people who won life's lottery or something. (forgot to mention all the good decisions, hard work, risk of their own money, foresight, ingenuety, 18 hour days, and more hard work that got them to the position they are in now)

Those people give you people jobs that sustain your lives. If it wasn't for the entrepreneurs in this country we would still be in the stone ages. If you are envious that means you want to be like them....well then do something about it and stop complaining.

 

[iScream]

Those people give you people jobs that sustain your lives

Please take it easy with stuff like this and don't doom this thread. I would like to continue the discussion but I have to leave for work now.

-Chris

 

[youngda9]

Please take it easy with stuff like this and don't doom this thread. I would like to continue the discussion but I have to leave for work now.

-Chris

I was using his "Us vs Them" type text to make a point of his wealth envy. He said "Just billionares and millionares making big jack off the Backs of us, the people."

The wealthy people are a part of "us, the people". It isn't about Us Vs. Them. I would be willing to bet that lobo9er has a job from a wealthy person...I have never gotten a job from a poor person, I doubt they could afford to pay me.

 

[huntsman]

For a PISTOL, I can reload below Walmarts BEST price, and I always have the ability to crank out a box of ammo whenever I want.


This sounds funny, but in life you have to "manage" your own desires/satisfaction, or else you go broke. You won't make it into the "millionaire next door" category if you spend all your money at Walmart.


Yes, it takes me 30 minutes or more to make up a batch of 9mm rounds. But that means that while I'm at the range I appreciate each shot much more because I had to make that round. I don't just go bang-bang-bang for the kinesthetic stimulus of the ignition of the round. That saves me $$ as well.

There are other, more important things in life, and I want to put my treasure where it really counts, not just in pleasure-seeking hobbies! Reloading (for a pistol) is one means toward that goal.

I thought about reloading for my .45acp but I'm not sure I want a single stage press and the progressives are out of my price range.

 

[lobo9er]

youngda9
Ahhh, the wealth envy seems to be such a motivator for you. All those dang "fortunate" people who won life's lottery or something. (forgot to mention all the good decisions, hard work, risk of their own money, foresight, ingenuety, 18 hour days, and more hard work that got them to the position they are in now)

Um bail out money was hard work? I fail to see the hardwork of recieving handouts from the gov't. There is no conspiracy a Large amount of the big time Gun manufactures are owned by the same company, including
REMINGTON
BUSHMASTER
REMINGTON LE
H&R 1871
DAKOTA ARMS
EOTAC
REMINGTON MILITARY
DPMS / Panther Arms
REMINGTON PMPD
MARLIN FIREARMS
PARKER GUNMAKERS

all owned by freedom group

monoply? not yet, hey good for them. 94.3 PERCENT of freedom group shares are owned by Cerberus. Curious that the Gov't gave them alot of our tax dollars. So I guess we have a stake in GMAC as well a big part of the shooting industry. none of that is conspiracy just fact.

 

[bababooey32]

monoply? not yet, hey good for them. 94.3 PERCENT of freedom group shares are owned by Cerberus. Curious that the Gov't gave them alot of our tax dollars.

Good grief. What is your point? What does this have to do with your claim that ammo manufacturers/retailers are gouging (you do remember the OP, right)? Because these 15 firearms companies are under the same ownership, they have somehow colluded to make prices higher? That's a pretty serious charge with very little evidence to back it up and, given that this list is just a fraction of worldwide firearms sales, it would be a rather idiotic ploy on their part.

Your fear and distrust of markets is astounding. Free markets are the most freedom-enhancing mechanism we have. They promote liberty and free-choice. Those are good things right??? RIGHT?????

 

[lobo9er]

my point is companies that have ties with the Gov't recieving bail out money because they aren't doing well isn't free market at all. Letting them fold and new business arise is free market. There is a small chance and it wouldn't be that far fetched that the Manufactures may have helped start rumors of shortages and or bans. They did profit pretty good. The OP was why still the shortage? Tell me why the manufactures wouldn't want to drag it out as long as possible? just a thought posted on a forum is all. I admit my first posts were a little leaky at the mouth talking about water and what not. OP asked why still a shortage and what i am saying is why would the manfactures not want a shortage? Obama, McCain, clinton, holder any of them mentioning a ban gave them sales through the roof. The adminstration has given billions to them, so is it crazy to say maybe they could bring up talk of a ban to boost some sales? Or manufactures lagging a little on shipments so it appears the ammo is disappearing? just a thought is all. Also there has been to talk of making reloading illegal, just talk, but if they did we all would have to buy ammo from only commercial ammo companies.

 

[lobo9er]

One more thing

In shotgun news this month theres an article making the point that in 5 to 10 years the entire gun industry could be big box outdoor stores and wal mart, Because small mom and pops shop are shutting down one reason is gov't regulations and taxes. hows this fit in maybe it doesnt but it might be interesting to find out who really owns the big box outdoor places.
side note 2% of the worlds populations controls 50% of the worlds wealth.

 

[lobo9er]

. Free markets are the most freedom-enhancing mechanism we have. They promote liberty and free-choice. Those are good things right??? RIGHT?????

Right I agree but what happens when gov't steps in and doesnt play by free market rules by subsidizing for some companies with tax dollars? I must apologize for going a little political I think that is against THR rules

 

[bababooey32]

Right I agree but what happens when gov't steps in and doesnt play by free market rules by subsidizing for some companies with tax dollars?

Bad things. WE apparently agree. But I am not follwoing what this has to do with the OP?

 

[EddieNFL]

Since you mentioned Mom and Pop...

I realize they did not receive stimulus funds, but how many are on our side? As an example, Bruno's is selling CCI BR primers for $59.95 per K ($37.00 at PV). How many dealers did not want the AWB to sunset? Principles have a way of being relegated to lower priorities when money enters the equation.

 

[Owen]

and the company that cerberus owns, that recieved bailout money? It did fold.
If Cerberus gets caught applying bailout money to its small arms assets, people will go to prison.

You're arguing a red herring. Actually, I have no idea at all what your arguing. You're coming across as a blubbering 14 year old, yeah-butting his way through a discussion, tracing through three or four circular arguments, as if repeating them will somehow make them true.

Rich People are gouging! A company owned by a company that owns gun companies took .gov money! Rich people are gouging! ad infinitum.

 

[lobo9er]

I dunno resonding to responses lol I have a problem with tagents once in awhile.
I just think there could be a possibility that big manufactures may have something to do to furthering of the ammo shortage to maintain there current sales. If even in a small way. To answer the question "why still a shortage."

 

[lobo9er]

To answer owen

If Cerberus gets caught applying bailout money to its small arms assets, people will go to prison.

we really don't know where all of the bail out money went. Publicly anyhow. And would it surprise you if there was some unethical handling of funds? Would it surprise you if some manufactures would help out furthering the "shortage" and "the better buy it now might not be able to tomarrow" that went on in the shooting community.

 

[Navy_Guns]

Hmm... I just finished loading 1,250 rounds of .45 ACP with bullets I cast. The 1.25 bricks of primers and a pound of bullseye cost me about $50. Why pay $20+ for 50 rounds when you can roll your own for $2.00?

When Shoemaker-Levy II comes and there are no more Wal Marts, I may be hurting but it won't be for a lack of available ammo!