W.E.G.
Member
I don't think the 30-30 is a very good sniper round.
But, if I got shot in the head with one, I might change my mind.
But, if I got shot in the head with one, I might change my mind.
Win 30-30 for rural defense?
- Thread starter J. Parker
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hot357lead
Member
now dont get me wrong im usually the guy to suggest at least an sks ak or or ak74 (if ammo price is the issue) but (fond memories kick in) i love my old marlin i have loved that gun since i got it as a kid, and i can tell ya that gun has never misfired, jammed or had a miss feed, its accurate, and no offense to anyone that disagrees but where i live you almost always see what you need to shoot within 100yrds, and its always had enough stopping power to do the trick. i would no discredit the 30-30 as an antique and highly respect the hell outta that design, its truly an American classic that should not be overlooked, for that matter so what if the guns an old design levergun, saa, 1911, it just means its had more time to prove its worth, just ask any old timer
(dont kill me for the 1911 comment i love mine)
+1 on the marlin or the classic '94
(dont kill me for the 1911 comment i love mine)
+1 on the marlin or the classic '94
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benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Perfectly suitable, if you like lever-actions and would practice with it. The .30-30 is ballistically similar to an AK, though with small capacity and slower reloading.
I would consider putting something like a Surefire G2/G3 LED on it (there are mounts available) as odds are that if you need it, you'll need it in poor light. An optic or tritium front sight post might be nice, but if you have the light you can see your sights without them.
Rob Pincus has a DVD out, very reasonably priced, that discusses defensive tactics with a levergun (among other things) and how to employ one effectively. I would highly recommend that; it's only about $25 as I recall.
One additional thing to consider is that the same gun in .357 Magnum has maybe 2/3 the energy but considerably more capacity, and I think if I were in the market for a defensive levergun, a relatively high capacity .357 would be my first choice.
I would consider putting something like a Surefire G2/G3 LED on it (there are mounts available) as odds are that if you need it, you'll need it in poor light. An optic or tritium front sight post might be nice, but if you have the light you can see your sights without them.
Rob Pincus has a DVD out, very reasonably priced, that discusses defensive tactics with a levergun (among other things) and how to employ one effectively. I would highly recommend that; it's only about $25 as I recall.
One additional thing to consider is that the same gun in .357 Magnum has maybe 2/3 the energy but considerably more capacity, and I think if I were in the market for a defensive levergun, a relatively high capacity .357 would be my first choice.
Ratdog68
Member
I snagged up a Win '94 (TE) last year. Serial number puts it at '40/'41 for build. Took it to the range after a good cleaning/going over. At 100yds... the only "change" made was to move the rear sight adjustment one stop. It's light, accurate, easy to use in close quarters too. I've wanted one for decades... even though I was lookin' for a lever action in .44mag (at the time)... I jumped on this .30-30 for $400.00
You bet... a good lever action would be a great gun to have handy in Ephrata... never know when one of those cougars will drop down out of the hills and be where he shouldn't... not to mention those pesky 'yotes.
You bet... a good lever action would be a great gun to have handy in Ephrata... never know when one of those cougars will drop down out of the hills and be where he shouldn't... not to mention those pesky 'yotes.
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Ed Harris
Member
Good article here parallels this thread...
"A favorite of lawmen and deer slayers alike, .30-30 lever-guns defended our Home Front in two World Wars, fed a then-mostly rural nation and still have utility for sport and home protection..."
http://shilohtv.com/?p=4619
"A favorite of lawmen and deer slayers alike, .30-30 lever-guns defended our Home Front in two World Wars, fed a then-mostly rural nation and still have utility for sport and home protection..."
http://shilohtv.com/?p=4619
I used to shoot my father's Win 94 30-30. I seem to remember that you had to leave the base of the cartridge sticking out the "door" because the last one you poked in sprung back and you couldn't open the "door" anymore. Was I doing something wrong, or was the magazine malfunctioning?
stiletto raggio
Member
First, let me say for hte record that I love lever guns. I think that, in some chamberings and in some circumstances, they are great defensive weapons. My Guide Gun would be one of three rifles I grabbed if I had to pack up and move out.
Here's the thing I can't get past with the .30/30: an SKS would almost certainly be superior in a fight. Even in standard configuration, loading and reloading are much faster. The SKS has a higher capacity, better factory iron sights and, of course, is semiautomatic. A semiauto is much easier to fire (repeatedly) from the prone than a lever gun. It is also easier to carry spare ammo and the ammo itself is much, much cheaper.
So would I buy a .30/30 as a defensive gun? No. But if I had one for other purposes, I would not feel poorly armed with one.
Here's the thing I can't get past with the .30/30: an SKS would almost certainly be superior in a fight. Even in standard configuration, loading and reloading are much faster. The SKS has a higher capacity, better factory iron sights and, of course, is semiautomatic. A semiauto is much easier to fire (repeatedly) from the prone than a lever gun. It is also easier to carry spare ammo and the ammo itself is much, much cheaper.
So would I buy a .30/30 as a defensive gun? No. But if I had one for other purposes, I would not feel poorly armed with one.
C-grunt
Member
W.E.G. Im using your post as my new Sig line. Classic!
OP. The lever gun has been defending American families since the 1800s. Sure there are newer rifles out there that are "better" suited for the task, but that doesnt mean the old ones are now obsolete.
If you can effectively run a lever 30-30 and place shots on target, it will work just as well as a AK/AR/M1A etc..
OP. The lever gun has been defending American families since the 1800s. Sure there are newer rifles out there that are "better" suited for the task, but that doesnt mean the old ones are now obsolete.
If you can effectively run a lever 30-30 and place shots on target, it will work just as well as a AK/AR/M1A etc..
Carl N. Brown
Member
Going solely by muzzle energy.
The .30-30 is twice as powerful as the .30 Carbine.
The .30-30 is two/thirds as powerful as the .30-06.
The .30-30 in 125gr actually has an edge in velocity and expanding bullet types over the 7.62x39mm in 123gr hollowpoint jacketed.
The .30-30 is twice as powerful as the .30 Carbine.
The .30-30 is two/thirds as powerful as the .30-06.
The .30-30 in 125gr actually has an edge in velocity and expanding bullet types over the 7.62x39mm in 123gr hollowpoint jacketed.
I just bought a pre-safety 94 AE in 30-30 with a 16" bbl and saddle-ring, apx 1987 vintage. That addition now makes five 30-30, one .35 Rem, one .44mag. I like leverguns, simple and effective, even if I have to recruit granny to help beat back the injuns...
Les
Les
Zanad
Member
This sounds like a autoloader vs a revovler question, exept for the fact these are rifles. for feed and reliability issues, its hard to beat either an sks or '94 30-30.
but as I said before, consider the autoloader vs a revovler question.
but as I said before, consider the autoloader vs a revovler question.
JNewell
Member
Works fine on deer, black bear, etc. ... it will work for your purposes if, big if, you do your part and make sure you practice to acquire handling and marksmanship skills. In years now gone by, a fair number of rural agencies issued them for their vehicles instead of shotguns.
Look. A 30-30 is a killer. It is accurate, light recoil, fast action rifle in lever guns. Pure and simple. Can be loaded down for fun, and back up for business. Handles many powders well, and and shoots bullets from 85 to 210 grains.
Anybody doubting it is just a dumb Jock picking on the nerd, but one day the nerd kicks the Jock's butt. Remember that story?
Anybody doubting it is just a dumb Jock picking on the nerd, but one day the nerd kicks the Jock's butt. Remember that story?
I'd get a Marlin 336 (that's strictly a personal preference) over a Winchester of any kind, but there's nothing wrong with the cartridge at all.
Growing up around my late uncle who was a big deer hunter who hunted with a 30-30 Winchester. I saw what a wound on his kills that went in the size of a nickle and came out the size of a large orange/grapefruit. I'm not much of a hunter but learned rifle safety and how to clean a kill from him. A 30-30 is a similar rnd. to the 7.62x39mm but more expensive. As good a weapon as any for a high velocity round. It size makes it good for home defense but a 12 gauge shotgun would be better. A SKS would be a little better and probably priced in the same range but less accurate. Winchester's are part of American history though!
Armored farmer
Member
The SKS may be a better choice for some, being an auto with stripper clip cababilities, the bayonet....etc, etc.
I had two of them when they were the rage.
<Didn't like the crappy sights><didn't like the stock built for a small boy><didn't like the goofy safety><didn't like not being able to scope it without a hassle><didn't like it's chi-com looks>
Wouldn't trade my 336 for a wheelbarrow full of SKS's
I had two of them when they were the rage.
<Didn't like the crappy sights><didn't like the stock built for a small boy><didn't like the goofy safety><didn't like not being able to scope it without a hassle><didn't like it's chi-com looks>
Wouldn't trade my 336 for a wheelbarrow full of SKS's
I do not understand why people keep saying over and over that the 30-30 is almost ballistically equivalent to the 7,62x39...it is not
According to the Hodgdon reload data center, a 150 gr. pill can be pushed up to 2150 fps with the 7,62x39 while the 30-30 can throw the same bullet weight up to 2400 fps (using a 24" test barrel for both rounds)
250 fps of MV difference is not being almost equivalent in my book.....that is almost 30% more muzzle energy for the 30-30 (~1500 ft/lb vs. ~1900 ft/lb)......saying that they are almost equivalent is like saying that the 30-06 and the 300 Magnums are ballistically similar...obviously they are not.
If we say that when the 30-30 use round or flat nosed bullets (as it usually happens) it loses velocity more quickly compared to the Russian round and, at some point downrange, the two rounds would be almost equivalent is a different story....it has to do with bullet style rather than round capability.
When loaded with spitzer bullets (traditional spitzers in a 2 round combination for lever rifles or the Hornady leverevolution) the 30-30 smokes out the 7,62x39 at long ranges too.
Both rounds kill deer very dead but they are not "almost equivalent" ballistically by any stretch of imagination.
According to the Hodgdon reload data center, a 150 gr. pill can be pushed up to 2150 fps with the 7,62x39 while the 30-30 can throw the same bullet weight up to 2400 fps (using a 24" test barrel for both rounds)
250 fps of MV difference is not being almost equivalent in my book.....that is almost 30% more muzzle energy for the 30-30 (~1500 ft/lb vs. ~1900 ft/lb)......saying that they are almost equivalent is like saying that the 30-06 and the 300 Magnums are ballistically similar...obviously they are not.
If we say that when the 30-30 use round or flat nosed bullets (as it usually happens) it loses velocity more quickly compared to the Russian round and, at some point downrange, the two rounds would be almost equivalent is a different story....it has to do with bullet style rather than round capability.
When loaded with spitzer bullets (traditional spitzers in a 2 round combination for lever rifles or the Hornady leverevolution) the 30-30 smokes out the 7,62x39 at long ranges too.
Both rounds kill deer very dead but they are not "almost equivalent" ballistically by any stretch of imagination.
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Ignition Override
Member
I have no idea about 30-30s, but here is another real situation.
A guy who ran the fishing pond shack at Shelby Farms a year ago lives near Hickory Hill, in s.e. Memphis.
He did not want to leave his area because his rent is so cheap. Here is a possible reason why it is so low...
He was in his driveway as some gang members walked towards him one day with unfriendly looks, and he lifted his AK clone from the back of his truck.
His upstanding neighbors seem to have changed their minds about something, then turned around.
If looks create the stronger impression, some might impress people more than others.
Does home defense require anything that will shoot past fifty feet?
Go Arizona!
A guy who ran the fishing pond shack at Shelby Farms a year ago lives near Hickory Hill, in s.e. Memphis.
He did not want to leave his area because his rent is so cheap. Here is a possible reason why it is so low...
He was in his driveway as some gang members walked towards him one day with unfriendly looks, and he lifted his AK clone from the back of his truck.
His upstanding neighbors seem to have changed their minds about something, then turned around.
If looks create the stronger impression, some might impress people more than others.
Does home defense require anything that will shoot past fifty feet?
Go Arizona!
Bill_Rights
Member
Al LaVodka,
Could you substantiate your statement about the .30-30 round: (?)
Could you substantiate your statement about the .30-30 round: (?)
AStone
Member
And they wouldn't have turned around had he lifted a .30-30 out of the truck?
Furthermore, let's review the OP's criteria.
Now I can't say for sure what the OP means by "boonies" - maybe s/he can clarify that.
But I can say this because I grew up in Memphis. I know Hickory Hill well.
It may have been "rural", er, the "boonies" in the 1950's, but it is no longer "rural", but suburban.
Apples and oranges.
coloradokevin
Member
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Agreed.
Unless you are planning to fend off an army of invading zombies (on the internet, anything is possible), you'll be very well-armed with a .30-30 lever gun. It has more than enough ummpff for the two-legged varmints, and is probably one of the most historically significant deer-slayers in the lower 48 states.
For those who can see past the black rifle mystique (don't get me wrong, I love my black rifles), a lever gun is definitely something I'd call a quality "ranch gun" (and I don't even currently own a lever-gun).
Well, if you're getting shot at someone at distances longer than fifty feet...
To diverge a bit here:
Intentionally limiting your capabilities, skills, weapons choice or embracing ideas such as "it'll never happen past 50 feet", "you'll never need more than 2-3 shots" etc, is stupid, yet an idea I often see on this board. Saying you'll never need anything past 100 feet or you'll never need to fight outside is just something that has always struck me as fairly odd.
On this board, especially in this thread, I don't think anyone has said the .30-30 levergun will leave you grossly under-armed. Yet all the posters are replying to that notion for some reason? Weird.
I will say the levergun is not ideal for the role of SD, although it will suffice (and suffice pretty decently) in a pinch if you have one or if it is the rifle your budget can afford, or if it is the most effective weapon you can own because of the laws in your area. . It has it's drawbacks, and the shooter needs to be aware of them. I think it compares pretty well to the SKS...a similarly affordable, usable and yet limited rifle. (I'd also rather have the .30-30 than the SKS...unless we are talking about an SKS-D)
Like any fighting rifle, better sights, a well matched optic and a mounted light will definitely help the rifle in it's HD/SD role.
Okay, it seems as if there is general approval of the .30-30 for defense, though it might not be ideal. What about ammo selection? This discussion recommends Federal 125 grain hollowpoints. Anyone else with an opinion?
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