Winchester, Remington, Savage, Weatherby, Sako, or CZ bolt actions?

[Mitchell Gard]

Now I know this comes across as an extremely broad subject, and it is. I'm relatively new to the bolt action rifle world an have been religiously researching and browsing rifles. I intend to buy a new bolt action in the near future but I've been feeling a bit overwhelmed with the seemingly infinite choices. I'll be purchasing a rifle to hunt for white-tail deer primarily, but I don't necessarily want to be tied down to just that. Most shots would most likely be taken at 100-200 yards with optics. But as many know, things can change in any number of ways and I also enjoy range shooting. I'm leaning towards .270 win or .30-06. I also don't want to spend over 2000 on the rifle itself (scope excluded). Back to the topic at hand. How does one decide between the numerous makes available? What kind of experience do you guys have with these popular companies? And lastly, if you own one, what are your thoughts?

 

[CB900F]

Mitchel;

Handle a lot of them, only consider buying what feels good to you. Does it come up to the shoulder & give you a good cheek weld at the same time?

My personal choices, which certainly may not be yours, are either Tikka or CZ. I have multiple examples of each, but in the left handed configuration. Another caliber that I'd urge you to take a look at, particularly in the circumstances you've outlined, is the 6.5 X 55mm Swede. Outstanding accuracy & the ability to kill far better than the bore diameter would lead you to believe. Either brand should be easily available in your budget range.

900F

 

[Mitchell Gard]

I literally know nothing about the 6.5 x 55mm swede do I'll definitely look into that a bit more. Is that a caliber i'd have trouble finding or have to chop a leg off for? I was looking at Tikka earlier today actually, I saw the link on the sako website and looked from there but didn't give it much thought. I'll take another look.

 

[HOOfan_1]

6.5x55 ammo is not available everywhere. Also if you are not a reloader, the US branded ammo is severely underloaded.

 

[jmr40]

Pick the features most important to you. With that budget I'd quickly narrow my choices to either Sako, Winchester or possibly Kimber.

Remington, Savage, Weatherby, and Sako are all pushfeed actions. Each has their strengths and weaknesses. You could argue that any are good enough, for much less money. But I think the Sako is the best of the bunch, and within your budget. With a $1,000 budget we could eliminate the Sako and the choices would be harder.

The Winchester, Ruger, CZ, and Kimber are all controlled round feed actions. For the most part it will probably never matter, but a CRF action is the more reliable, rugged, and foolproof of the 2. Everything else being equal I "prefer" CRF, but I own and trust both types.

Of the CRF rifles the current prodution Winchesters are the best of the bunch, with Kimber being close. In some ways the Kimber is better. If you value a small very lightweight gun Kimber is the only game in town under $3000.

My personal choice is the Winchester. I've never owned a Sako, but there is no denying they are great guns. Maybe the best of the best in production rifles at that price. Winchester or Kimber would be my choices for several reasons. A Winchester set up the way I want it is a little cheaper,(right at $1,000) they are USA made, and CRF is a feature important to me.

A Kimber is a little more expensive, around $1,200-$1,300 But their sythetic stocked rifles can be scoped and still weigh under 6 lbs. Mine is 5 lbs 14 oz with a scope on it. They are putting the best looking piece of wood on their wood/blue rifles of any manufacturers if that is the way you want to go.

Ruger and CZ make good rifles for the money. With a budget of under $1,000 I'd easily recommend either. But they are not in the same class as Kimber or Winchester, both are well under your $2,000 budget. In fact you can get a good rifle and scope for under $2,000.

 

[Mitchell Gard]

I don't do any reloading and I honestly don't know anything about it but it's certainly a future option. The biggest road block with that is the learning curve. I don't personally know anyone that does it so I feel it would be pretty difficult to get started on

 

[lowerunit411]

IMHO...if your new to hunting and bolt actions you wont need to spend any where near 2 grand for a fine deer hunting rifle in almost any calibre you choose. as far as brand...all of the brands you mentioned make great rifles...go handle all of them...today we are blessed to have a great number of great shooting arms for what i consider reasonable prices...its a personal choice

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

I beg to differ. Although I do roll my own, I've never seen 6.5 hard to get. True, it might not be at Elmo's Gas-N-Go on the outskirts of Fugbuck Arkansas, but in anything approaching a sporting goods store that handles firearms, you'll find it. And, with a max range listed by the OP of under 250 yards, the fact that it might not be loaded to the last PSI of pressure doesn't mean much.

And the reason it's a whole lot easier to find these days, rather than 25 years ago, is that the combination of low recoil, outstanding accuracy, and excellent terminal performance is winning over plenty of shooters. It truly is worth a look.

900F

 

[Abel]

How did this become a 6.5 Swede thread? Its a great round, sure. But if it were really any good, you could get a 6.5 Swede in the X-Bolt or M77 Hawkeye. And you can't. So there you have it.

 

[Mitchell Gard]

JMR40, I really appreciate your in depth reply. I honestly hadn't given much thought to Kimber rifles, I've heard pretty consistent negative feedback on their handguns but I understand often time a company can be worlds apart worth itself on both so I'll take a look at them. I've read a great deal about the pre 64 model 70's by Winny. And though I don't have much hands on I feel that I'd agree about the Crf and claw extractor. Unfortunately things get a little disorienting when each company has one or two things I like more than the others. In definitely getting a walnut stock and weight isn't really an issue.

CB900F, what makes the 6.5 such a desirable round? Can you tell me a little about it?

 

[Abel]

You could try and locate a Cooper for under $2000. Here is a 270 Win:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=267375654

 

[GWARGHOUL]

Get yourself a Weatherby Vanguard Deluxe, and spend the rest on a good scope and optics.

 

[Mitchell Gard]

GWAR, that's actually the rifle I wasreferring to in the OP when I said Weatherby, good call. I'm hoping to have a Leupold VX 3L 3.5 x 10 x 50mm soon, unfortunately probably before the rifle.

 

[PowerG]

It would be hard to beat a .30-06 for your first bolt gun, it's very versatile, with many different bullet weights, and ammo is easy to find. Any of the brands you mention would likely be a good choice, go to a large gun store and look and handle them.

 

[Fullboar1]

IMHO The Sako 85's are the BEST factory production rifle on the market bar none.

1. They have the best accuracy guarantee (by a country mile).
2. The best trigger on a factory rifle
3. The best fit and finish of any factory rifle
4. You never hear of a Sako having to go back to the importer/factory for a problem.
5. I dont really know about the states but my guess would be they have great resale value like they do here in Australia.

I would buy a Sako 85 with a Zeiss Conquest scope and you will have one of the best factory rifle/scope combinations you can buy.

http://www.sako.fi/sako85.php

Because you want a hunting rifle have a look at the Sako Finnlight

http://www.sako.fi/sako85models.php?finnlight
http://www.sako.fi/pdf/specs/85Finnlight.pdf

IMHO the Zeiss Conquest is the best value for money higher end scopes on the market.

http://www.zeiss.com/SPORTS

I also think you cant go wrong with the 6.5x55. If you don't want to spend that much on a Sako, have a look at a Tikka T3 (they are made by Sako).

http://www.tikka.fi/t3rifles.php

 

[matt 7mm]

personaly i would go for a savage 14 in short action or 114 in long action or rem 700 those can be had in 600 to 800 dollar range. nothing wrong with winchester m70 or ruger77 i just never cared for the feel of them but that is pure personal preferance.those coopers look realy nice if you are willing to spend that much but thats on my someday list.for a mid range deer rifle like your a considering i would look at a 7mm-08 but your cartridge options are virtualy endless 6.5x55 sounds good as well as 260 rem

 

[Smith357]

Depending on what type of deer you are hunting you might want to consider a .243, it's a dandy whitetail cartridge that can double as a varmint round and it's available at any wally world or backwater bait store. The .243 may be a bit small for large mule deer but is softer recoiling than the 06. But if you want to hunt larger game like Elk or Moose the 06 will easily kill every game animal in North America. If you get into handloading you can tailor 06 loads to do pretty much what a .243 can do, or any other round for that matter. Which ever cartridge you choose make sure your first rifle is chambered in a common caliber that can be found anywhere ammo is sold. Basically go to wally world and if they don't have the ammo on the shelf don't buy the rifle. Unless of course it's a minty pre-64 Winchester in .257 Roberts for $400.


As for rifles I'm a die hard Winchester Model 70 man for two reasons, I like the Mauser styled extractor, not because I hang upside down while hunting but I don't have to chamber a round to capture it in the bolt and extract it. Second is the 3 position positive wing safety that actually blocks the sear, and not just disables the trigger.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?mid=535109

 

[Sav .250]

Take a step back. Your selection is to narrow and your price ($2000) is to high. Asking for opinions is fine but not all have tested/used all available bolt
actions.
Go to Gun Shows(if you have any) where you can handle just about everything. Plus, Gander Mountain,Bass Pro Shot,etc as well.
Beside cal, fit/finish comes into play. Some time your "eye" will tell you,"that`s the one."
There is a wide range of calibers that you missed that are equal to and some times better than your two choices.
Good luck.

 

[eldon519]

I would just get a Thompson Center Icon for less than $500. Guaranteed to shoot 3-shot, 100yd MOA groups. That is more accuracy than you need at immense savings, and then when it gets rained on and dinged up, you won't feel bad that you have messed up a $2000 gun.

I think it's also a good practice to get into the game cheap, and then once you know more about what you like, dislike, etc, that is when you spend the big bucks to get just what you want.

 

[Fullboar1]

This is the same information I used to make my decision on what rifles to buy. Have a look at this web page and then see if you can find anything remotely comparable with any other production rifle. Then we'll talk again about who makes the best production rifles. I don't think it's even close personally.

Wake Up!!!
Do you really think they were shooting factory rifles that they just got out of the box??? I can just about Guarantee the only part that is Savage on those rifles was more then likely the action (target action). The reason Savage won that was because they paid the most money for the best shooters.

Sorry I OWN both Savage and Sako and Savages are a good rifle but they don't hold a candle to a Sako. and I can guarantee 99% of people that own both would go for the Sako as well. So tell me what is better on the Savage then the Sako? Not the barrel (have a look down a Savage barrel, then a Sako barrel with a borescope). The Sako (and Tikka's) triggers are by far the best on the market (the easiest to adjust too). The Sako's 60 degree (and Tikka's 72 degree) bolt throw are twice as smooth as any Savages 90 degree bolt throw and I would bet the tolerances on the Sako's are about the best you will find on any rifle. Now the Fit and Finish on the Sako is as good and even better then many high dollar custom rifles. Lastly What is the Accuracy Guarantee again on a Savage (oh thats right 1.5 MOA at 100 yards with 3 shots with Match Grade ammo), Sako put there money where there mouth is with the best (by far) Accuracy Guarantee of any Factory production rifle on the market. 1" (Sub MOA) at 100 yards with 5 shots with any HUNTING ammo (not Match Grade), even there lightweight sporter barrelled rifles carry this guarantee. Also the Sako TRG is probably one of the most used Sniper rifles in the world, how many countries military are using Savage? Over here Sako's and Tikka have been around in this country along time and just about every quality hunting guide use Sako's (that says something). Like I said I do own a Savage 12 with the DBM with a heavy barrel in 243 that use to copper foul really badly (until it had a couple of hundred shots through it) and it does shoot well but it took me a number of range trips and a truckfull of handloads to find one it really liked (never had that problem with my 5 Tikkas, 2 Sako's and a Brno/CZ). I also own a Savage model 93 in 22mag and it has been a great little gun and to be far I have had issues with a Remington and Howa I own. My father uses my Savage now as I have a Tikka Varmint in 260 and the Savage doesn't shoot anywhere as good as that.

Here is a few threads that you might want to look at (never hear of those problems with a Sako or Tikka)

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php/topic,3771526.0.html
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php/topic,3755642.0.html
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php/topic,3765457.msg35954771.html#msg35954771
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php/topic,3760490.msg35927856.html#msg35927856

 

[riader13]

I have similar questions as Mitchell, but a $1,000 total budget (gun & scope). I want to go west for muley, antelope and elk.
Also concerned about recoil. Have read a lot. My experience is I can shoot 20ga sabots all day through my 870. My son's Mossburg 12ga shooting 1oz slugs is too much if more than a couple. My questions:
- Will dropping to a 308 from a 30-06 make a big difference?
- Would a gun with a 26" [email protected] be better than a 22" barrel/7.5lb with a integral muzzle brake at managing recoil?
Hard for me to find a shop to shoot options...

 

[jmr40]

Consider having a custom rifle built. With that budget, you can pick the action that comes closest to the features you want. Have a gunsmith install a barrel in the caliber you want. With the barrel contour and length you want. And then have a nice stock put on it customized to fit you. I think you should be able to do this for around $2K if you don't get too fancy with the wood.

Like I said in my previous post. First decide which features you want. You've already said you want walnut/blue. That narrows the choices. Is CRF important? Two position Safety or 3 position? 60 degree bolt lift or 90 degree? Is USA made important to you? Do you value rugged and reliable over accurate? Which stock design feels best in your hands?

Once you start sorting out which features are "important to you", then it will be a lot easier making your choice. All of the guns discussed can be a good choice. But some of the features offered on some very good guns, are not important to me.

Everyone has to make their own choices. I've owned all of the guns suggested so far except the Sako. All are good in their own way, but the Kimber or Winchester have the design features that are most important to me. That does not mean everyone will come to the same conclusion. That is why they make so many different guns with so many different features.

 

[Fullboar1]

I have similar questions as Mitchell, but a $1,000 total budget (gun & scope). I want to go west for muley, antelope and elk.
Also concerned about recoil. Have read a lot. My experience is I can shoot 20ga sabots all day through my 870. My son's Mossburg 12ga shooting 1oz slugs is too much if more than a couple. My questions:
- Will dropping to a 308 from a 30-06 make a big difference?
- Would a gun with a 26" [email protected] be better than a 22" barrel/7.5lb with a integral muzzle brake at managing recoil?
Hard for me to find a shop to shoot options...

Dropping down from a 30-06 to a 308 will make a difference. A heavier gun with a muzzle brake will also make a difference some stock shapes also reduce felt recoil. IMHO maybe you should look at getting a brake on your 30-06 and a good recoil pad is probably the go as well (I would go the pad first). The problem is humping around a heavy rifle on foot all day gets old very quickly and a 26" barrel IMO is to long for a foot hunting rifle.

 

[HKGuns]

I also agree Sako makes the best production rifle on the market today from a features and accuracy perspective and they have been producing top notch quality rifles for a considerable time.

If you want a custom rifle the Cooper suggested above is a really well respected alternative.

You can't go wrong with 30-06, but if this is your first, I'd recommend looking at .308 as a lighter recoiling, short action alternative. I own both and prefer the .308 to the 30-06, primarily for shorter action. -That is personal preference.

You really need to handle the rifles before making a decision. Fit of a rifle is very important to shooting it accurately. Comb, LOP and the actions can all be very different and make a difference in how you shoot and handle the rifle.

 

[Mitchell Gard]

Sakos are certainly nice and offer a wide variety of effective calibers, the only issue is they're at the very top of my price range, even used. Can anyone attest for the ruggedness of a Sako? Their accuracy and quality is without question but how long will one last with appropriate care and maitenance.