Roadwild17
Member
Are WSM round here to stay, or will they go the way of the doo-doo bird?
WSM fad?
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No round ever actually goes extinct.
Some just get exponentially more expensive over time.
You want 8x56 Hungarian? .28-56 Winchester? .401 Winchester Self Loader?
You can buy it all. And you can reload it all.
So that's the real question. My guess is that the answer is that some rounds will be major players, some will be rare but available, and some will be orphaned.
Winchester has a really checkered track record. Their ammo innovations over the past century and a half have led to the most successful rounds and families (.30-30, .308, .300 WM, .22 WMR, .270) but also to a host of rounds you've never heard of unless you collect old oddities.
Some just get exponentially more expensive over time.
You want 8x56 Hungarian? .28-56 Winchester? .401 Winchester Self Loader?
You can buy it all. And you can reload it all.
So that's the real question. My guess is that the answer is that some rounds will be major players, some will be rare but available, and some will be orphaned.
Winchester has a really checkered track record. Their ammo innovations over the past century and a half have led to the most successful rounds and families (.30-30, .308, .300 WM, .22 WMR, .270) but also to a host of rounds you've never heard of unless you collect old oddities.
BrennanKG
Member
Could someone give me a relatively concise definition of the SWM?
Other than Winchester Short Magnum, that is.
B.
Other than Winchester Short Magnum, that is.
B.
Karbon
Member
Do a search under Rifle Country. I've been looking them up for quite some time and have several threads started on them. Lot's of good info.
summary...
Most think they will stay.
Some think they are more accurate.
Some think they are not needed, or overlap.
Some think the .270wsm is the only one worth keeping around.
But all people have their own opinions...so who knows.
But read my threads, great info from the guys and gals here.
summary...
Most think they will stay.
Some think they are more accurate.
Some think they are not needed, or overlap.
Some think the .270wsm is the only one worth keeping around.
But all people have their own opinions...so who knows.
But read my threads, great info from the guys and gals here.
Hardcorehunter
Member
The .270, .300, and .325 wsm's are here to stay. Wssm's; now that is a different story IMO.
Brennan-
WSM (Winchester Short Magnum) is a fat, short rifle cartridge family.
There are several other families, e.g. the .30-06 brass with a resized neck is used for .25-06 Rem, .270 Win, .280 Rem, .338-06, .35 Whelen, etc. The .308 Win case is the basis for the .243 Win, the .260 Rem, the 7mm-08 Rem, etc.
The difference is that Winchester created the family deliberately, whereas the others were the result of amateur and professional experiments with existing cases that had been adopted by the military so they were available cheap.
WSSM is another family Winchester created, even shorter.
In general, they're short, fat rounds so you can have a shorter rifle action (like a .308) but more velocity (like a .300 Win Mag, or even approaching the mighty but bulky Weatherby Magnum family). The .30-06 and its shortened successor the .308 Winchester / 7.62x51 NATO were developed for the steel available at the time. Modern manufacturing allows magnum-power cartridges in shorter cases than 100 years ago when the .30-06 was developed, or 60 years ago when Roy Weatherby began playing with hand cannons.
Remington has their own competitor, the SAUM or Short Action Ultra Magnum. In keeping with Remington's more conservative approach, they make only a few calibers.
A bit of history: Winchester seems to use a "shotgun" approach to cartridge introduction. They put a bunch out there and some of them hit the mark. Remington seems to use a more targeted approach. Both companies have introduced many successful cartridges over the years. I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that while there are some rare but cult-beloved Remingtons like the .280, there are a lot more obsolete, orphaned rounds out there with the suffix "Winchester" than "Remington". That's probably one reason why people ask the question about a newfangled Winchester innovation's future in the marketplace.
The .300 and .270 WSM's seem to have hit critical mass. I don't know about any of the others.
WSM (Winchester Short Magnum) is a fat, short rifle cartridge family.
There are several other families, e.g. the .30-06 brass with a resized neck is used for .25-06 Rem, .270 Win, .280 Rem, .338-06, .35 Whelen, etc. The .308 Win case is the basis for the .243 Win, the .260 Rem, the 7mm-08 Rem, etc.
The difference is that Winchester created the family deliberately, whereas the others were the result of amateur and professional experiments with existing cases that had been adopted by the military so they were available cheap.
WSSM is another family Winchester created, even shorter.
In general, they're short, fat rounds so you can have a shorter rifle action (like a .308) but more velocity (like a .300 Win Mag, or even approaching the mighty but bulky Weatherby Magnum family). The .30-06 and its shortened successor the .308 Winchester / 7.62x51 NATO were developed for the steel available at the time. Modern manufacturing allows magnum-power cartridges in shorter cases than 100 years ago when the .30-06 was developed, or 60 years ago when Roy Weatherby began playing with hand cannons.
Remington has their own competitor, the SAUM or Short Action Ultra Magnum. In keeping with Remington's more conservative approach, they make only a few calibers.
A bit of history: Winchester seems to use a "shotgun" approach to cartridge introduction. They put a bunch out there and some of them hit the mark. Remington seems to use a more targeted approach. Both companies have introduced many successful cartridges over the years. I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that while there are some rare but cult-beloved Remingtons like the .280, there are a lot more obsolete, orphaned rounds out there with the suffix "Winchester" than "Remington". That's probably one reason why people ask the question about a newfangled Winchester innovation's future in the marketplace.
The .300 and .270 WSM's seem to have hit critical mass. I don't know about any of the others.
Roadwild17
Member
So basically I could get .30-06 performance (probably more) out of a .308 size action and I shouldn’t have "a great deal" of problem getting ammo? Sure I may have to order off the internet, but the rounds won’t become so obscure that your paying $5 a pop?
Karbon
Member
Most .270wsm rounds I've seen are 22-32 a box. Federal, Winchester, Remington.
Some of the highest end can reach close to 50/box (Midway is a great online site to buy from)
Most wsm rounds can be found at Gander and the like, and even the
Wal-**** by be have the wsm's.
Some of the highest end can reach close to 50/box (Midway is a great online site to buy from)
Most wsm rounds can be found at Gander and the like, and even the
Wal-**** by be have the wsm's.
one-shot-one
Member
Deer Hunter
Member
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I never understood the concept of short magnums. What will they do that a real magnum wont? Will you ever need anything more than a .308 or a 30-06? Sure, shorter actions. I never understood that concept either. What's so great about short action vs. long action?
Most WSM or WSSM have nominal performance over smaller cartridges, and are lagging behind the magnum rounds (if the ballistic tables are correct). I wont pay extra money for performance I can find elsewhere.
Most WSM or WSSM have nominal performance over smaller cartridges, and are lagging behind the magnum rounds (if the ballistic tables are correct). I wont pay extra money for performance I can find elsewhere.
That would be a .308.
The idea is a round that performs like a .300 Win Mag or even a .300 Weatherby, in a .308-size action. That's the big deal, and it is a significant innovation. (The rather unhyped Remington 7mm and .300 SAUM are in the same class, so Winchester is not exactly the only company in this game.)
Sounds like some serious shoulder punishment to me. Even the hefty Weatherby Mark V kicks like a pissed-off rhinoceros in .300 Weatherby Magnum! So I'm not really excited about having a little 6 lb. rifle that shoots a round that approaches its velocity and energy. On the other hand, if I were hunting for a week on foot in Alaska, where even the birds weigh 800 lb., I could see that it could be a cool thing.
Rob62
Member
I thought the WSM and WSSM cartridges were niche cartridges at best when they first came out and still do.
I believe they will eventually die off. But I have been wrong before
Rob
I believe they will eventually die off. But I have been wrong before
Rob
mljdeckard
Member
^^ I agree. Most people who are already used to a long action won't go out of their way for a short action. BUT, those (like myself) seeking to use AR pattern rifles to hunt as much as possible like the option of magnum calibers in an AR-10 frame.
It's interesting to note that the original 458, 338, 264 and 300 Winchester Magnums were considered "Short Magnums" at that time....standard 30-06 action length in a Magnum case (shortened 375 H&H Magnum).
The WSM concept (short and fat) is nothing new....the 7,62X54mmR was introduced in 1891....
The WSM concept (short and fat) is nothing new....the 7,62X54mmR was introduced in 1891....
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