XD Thoughts

[Desertscout]

There are a few reasons that I don't like the XD.

1. I despise grip safeties.

2. The axis of the bore on the XD is way too high for me, resulting in more muzzle-flip than the Glock.

3. The XD is truly a single action pistol and is cocked and in battery when you chamber a round. The Glock is not.

4. The general consensus among most shooters that we have encountered was that the HS 2000 was a POS when it came out. Springfield Armory brought it back as the XD-9 and made it a hit. It is still made in Croatia and is still the same gun that the HS 2000 was but, since it now has SA's name on it, it somehow became good.

5. The XD's trigger reset is way too long. The Glock is much faster.

6. It feels good in my hand but I don't like the XD.

 

[PCRit]

Desertscout, come on...really, tell us how you feel

Different strokes, as they say, enjoy your Glocks

 

[Lennyjoe]

The XD's trigger reset is way too long. The Glock is much faster

This I agree with.

 

[Bama61]

[3. The XD is truly a single action pistol and is cocked and in battery when you chamber a round. The Glock is not./QUOTE]

Does this make the XD any less safe than the Glock? Please explain why it does or doesn't.

Bama61

 

[Marshall]

The general consensus among most shooters that we have encountered was that the HS 2000 was a POS when it came out.

Either something has changed with the gun or you all were wrong. Has to be one or the other. There's way too many people shooting thousands and thousands of rounds of ammo with no gun failures and, in addition, there are little to none in the way of negative reports and reviews on the XD here on THR. In a recent poll here on THR the XD received more votes than the Glock for "which do you like" or something to that effect. So evidently the general concensus has changed.


Bama,

I find the XD-40 service model a joy to shoot. The gun is accurate and controllable. It has less flip than the sub compact. The grip safety is nice to have along with the tell tale cocked indicator on the rear of the slide. Easily visible and, if needed, you can feel it with your thumb in the dark. The stainless mags are nice. The ease of stripping and cleaning is one of it's nicest features, it literally takes just seconds.

Good luck whatever you choose.

 

[Desertscout]

Does this make the XD any less safe than the Glock? Please explain why it does or doesn't.

I don't know that it necessarily makes it any less safe but personally, I don't want something cocked that can't be uncocked. Even a 1911 has the capability of being uncocked. Becasue the XD is a single-action, it has to have a grip safety which I don't like at all.

So evidently the general concensus has changed.

Please note this part of MY quote: ...THAT WE HAVE ENCOUNTERED.

The grip safety is nice to have along with the tell tale cocked indicator on the rear of the slide. Easily visible and, if needed, you can feel it with your thumb in the dark.

Grip safeties are fine as long as there are no injuries that prevent you from establishing your grip properly. Some folks also cannot disengage the grip safety with their off-hand in a stressful situation.
Also, we teach people to never trust loaded chamber indicators so that is really a non-issue for us. We advocate visually (or physically in low-light) checking the chamber. Glocks have LCI's too but it is not the cocked firing pin sticking out through a hole in the back of the slide.

 

[distra]

Desertscout, just to clearify, the LCI is on the TOP of the slide, not the cocked fire pin indicator. As for the other issues you mentioned, 1 & 2 seem to be personal preference. 3 I'm not sure I agree with. As you know Blocks...er...Glocks are striker fired and "half cocked" all the time. I don't see the difference between a "half cocked" with really no safety and a "fully cocked" with a grip safety 4 having lerked on the HS2000 forum and posted recently, it seems that IM did some design changes and enhancements to the HS before Springer brought it back. Why would being made in Croatia have anything to do with quality? Former Soviet block countries have not had a problem making reliable weapons. Their weapons tend to eat all ammo fed to them and fire every time. 5 I agree the trigger reset is longer, but more important to me is the pre-travel. I think I'm sending mine to Canyon-Creek for the trigger job. As for decocking a loaded 1911, yes you can do it, but it's certainly not recommended. I carry my 1911's cocked and lock, but would not THINK of decocking it with a round in the chamber. What would you gain from doing this, except for a possible ND?

 

[Marshall]

Grip safeties are fine as long as there are no injuries that prevent you from establishing your grip properly. Some folks also cannot disengage the grip safety with their off-hand in a stressful situation.

Triggers are fine too as long as an ingury doesn't prevent you from pulling it. Doesn't mean I don't want a trigger.

Actually, I am wondering how you can hold a pistol, aim at your target and pull the trigger without actually holding the gun which engages the grip safety and allows you to point and pull?

 

[Desertscout]

the LCI is on the TOP of the slide, not the cocked fire pin indicator.

As I said, the LCI is a non-issue for me and you are right, the LCI on the XD is on top. They just have the FP poking out the rear of the slide for no good reason I guess.

As for the other issues you mentioned, 1 & 2 seem to be personal preference.

ALL of my thoughts listed in my original post are personal preference.

3 I'm not sure I agree with.

Agree or not, the XD is a single action, just like a 1911 and the Glock is a DAO. Glocks are never "half-cocked" since there is no such thing as "cocked" on one. The striker on the Glock is fully at rest against the FP safety after chambering a round and not under spring tension at any time. The only time the FP is under spring tension is while pulling the trigger.

Why would being made in Croatia have anything to do with quality?

I didn't say it did.

5 I agree the trigger reset is longer, but more important to me is the pre-travel.

I think both are important and both should be useable. The reset on the XD is not useable to me.

I think I'm sending mine to Canyon-Creek for the trigger job.

I certainly don't blame you for that.

As for decocking a loaded 1911, yes you can do it, but it's certainly not recommended. I carry my 1911's cocked and lock, but would not THINK of decocking it with a round in the chamber. What would you gain from doing this, except for a possible ND?

The 1911 also has a positive external safety.

Triggers are fine too as long as an ingury doesn't prevent you from pulling it. Doesn't mean I don't want a trigger.

Actually, I am wondering how you can hold a pistol, aim at your target and pull the trigger without actually holding the gun which engages the grip safety and allows you to point and pull?

It's not difficult at all. If you need shown, please feel free to drop by our range and I will demonstrate.

 

[crazed_ss]

It takes minimal effort to engage the XD grip safety.
If you're injured so much that you cant engage the grip safety, you're probably missing that hand so you wouldnt be pulling the trigger anyway.

 

[Desertscout]

It takes minimal effort to engage the XD grip safety.
If you're injured so much that you cant engage the grip safety, you're probably missing that hand so you wouldnt be pulling the trigger anyway.

Yeah, sounds good in theory.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

If grip safeties are so good, then how come to my understanding, JMB himself didn't even want to put one on the 1911, and in fact left one the grip safety off of his pet High Power?

Desert Scout, as can be seen here:

http://www.sniperworld.com/glock/

The striker of the Glock is placed under tension to about the half cocked position as the slide returns to battery. Pulling the trigger finishes the motion and releases the striker. Because of this, I think by technical definition, the Glock fails to qualify as DA.

 

[Marshall]

Quote:
Actually, I am wondering how you can hold a pistol, aim at your target and pull the trigger without actually holding the gun which engages the grip safety and allows you to point and pull?

It's not difficult at all. If you need shown, please feel free to drop by our range and I will demonstrate.

No please, go ahead and explain. I'm all ears.

Desertscout
http://www.rosssportinggoods.com

I guess if I was selling Glock at my range and even based my website around them with the "Glocksmith" I would bad mouth the XD too. Wait, no I wouldn't. But it does explain why you do.

 

[Jim_M]

I've owned both and trust both (Glock and XD's). I shoot and carry the XD more because I prefer it's grip angle. I have competed with my XD40 Tactical (5") weekly for many years and it does fine. What's really nice is the conversion barrel. It is a 9mm drop in from 'Fire Dragon'. So I shoot live fire practice with tons of cheap 9mm using my same mags. To many choices today. Springfield, Glock and CZ produce extraordinary pistols. You can trust them all. Buy the one thats fits.

 

[XDKingslayer]

As I said, the LCI is a non-issue for me and you are right, the LCI on the XD is on top. They just have the FP poking out the rear of the slide for no good reason I guess.

I have no problem when you don't like a certain weapon, but please educate yourself on said weapon if you wish to pass on your opinion so you aren't passing cow flop on to others.

The "pin" sticking out of the rear is NOT the firing pin. It is simply an indicator. If you ever take an XD slide apart you will see this. I can see where you are getting at, but feel free to take my XD, cock it, and smack that pin with a hammer. It won't trigger the firing pin.

And the pin is there for good reason. Simply be feeling the back of the slide with your offhand or your thumb you can see if the pistol is indeed cocked.

 

[springerman05]

I really do not have much to go by since i have not shot the 40 yet. The 40 was the original caliber i was to purchase, but when factoring in that i will be carring this gun concealed i wanted something a little more accurate with less recoil. Comparing my springfield milspec .45 to the xd9 my groups significantly changed for the better mainly because of the drop in the recoil. I would recommend testing an xd9 and the new .45 to see which one fits you the best.

 

[Desertscout]

http://www.sniperworld.com/glock/

The striker of the Glock is placed under tension to about the half cocked position as the slide returns to battery. Pulling the trigger finishes the motion and releases the striker. Because of this, I think by technical definition, the Glock fails to qualify as DA.

I've seen this site before and it's good explanation of how the Glock works. It shows the spring being compressed but it still is NOT putting any spring tension on the FP. It is resting against the FP safety. The FP is only retracted enough so that it doesn't stick out of the bolt face. The definition of DA is that the trigger performs 2 functions; cocking the hammer AND releasing it. The Glock, although it doesn't have a hammer, falls into the DA category. The trigger withdraws the striker and releases it. Glock calls it a Safe-Action and that's OK with me. Like so many rebates that happen involving guns, it's just semantics.

No please, go ahead and explain. I'm all ears.

No, actually, you're all mouth.

I guess if I was selling Glock at my range and even based my website around them with the "Glocksmith" I would bad mouth the XD too. Wait, no I wouldn't. But it does explain why you do.

My range and my store are 2 seperate entities. I also sell XD's and 1911's but I also have a peresonal opinion which I can see is not welcome on this board. You have a smart mouth and have no clue what you are talking about. My site is far from being "based" on Glocks. There is one button that leads a viewer to one page that has anything to with Glocks. Big deal. And I haven't "bad mouthed" the XD. The original poster asked for thoughts and I gave him mine. Just because I don't like something doesn't mean that I have badmouthed it.

The "pin" sticking out of the rear is NOT the firing pin. It is simply an indicator. If you ever take an XD slide apart you will see this.

Yes, I realize that and I know what it's called. It's another case if semantics. My point was the extra hole in the back of the slide, not the proper nomenclature for what was sticking out of it. If you feel the need for TWO LCI's, that's fine with me.

You folks are quite the group. The man asked for thoughts and from what I see so far, only certain thoughts are welcome. I never ran the gun dow, just stated why I didn't like it and believe it or not, I still don't

 

[XDKingslayer]

Yes, I realize that and I know what it's called. It's another case if semantics. My point was the extra hole in the back of the slide, not the proper nomenclature for what was sticking out of it. If you feel the need for TWO LCI's, that's fine with me.

If you'd like to refer to it as semantics, so be it, but the more you cut down the XD the more your lack of knowledge of the firearm shows.

There aren't two LCI's. The one on top is an LCI, the one on the back is a cocking indicator. Play it off as semantics if you wish, but the cocking indicator on the rear will still show if the pistol is cocked WITHOUT a round in the chamber. It works independantly of the top LCI.

Again, one is a loaded round indicator, one is a cocking indicator. There are different levels of readiness with this pistol and the combination of these indicators showing or not showing will show you it's level at a glance/feel if working properly. That is the point of the system. You can quickly look/feel and see if you have a round in the chamber and the pistol is cocked or if the pistol is cocked on an empty chamber, say if you're dry firing.

Now that you understand the pistol a little better, please go back to bashing it. At least now you will sound like you have half an idea of what you are talking about while doing so.

 

[Desertscout]

You're a comical little feller, I'll give you that.
I never have "bashed" the gun. I simply said why I didn't like it and why. My opinion doesn't agree with yours and now your panties are all wadded up.
This thread has become completely non-productive. Time to move on.

 

[Marshall]

I'm still waiting to hear how you can hold a pistol, aim at your target and pull the trigger without actually holding the gun which engages the grip safety and allows you to point and pull?

 

[Desertscout]

Keep waitin' and please, hold your breath while you do. It's really not too hard to figure out.......for most folks.

 

[strangebrew]

Even in a stressful situation where you may not have the best grip/stance I highly doubt anyone would hold the gun so ackwardly that it would not engage the grip safety. If that person does infact fail to depress the safety then he/she needs to practice because they aint going to hit ???? if they are holding the gun any other way.

 

[Marshall]

I figured there would still be no answer.

 

[XDKingslayer]

My opinion doesn't agree with yours and now your panties are all wadded up.

Your opinion not agreeing with mine is not what wads my panties up. What wads them up is someone who has no clue as to what they are talking about, offering their opinion.

If you construct an opinion of something based on your knowledge of it and can actually reflect that opinion and knowledge, good or bad, then you've accomplished something.

But when you simply offer an opinion on something you clearly don't have a full understanding of will lead people down a wrong trail. And leading those people down that wrong trail is neither responsible nor healthy.

If you would have projected your opinion and shown that you had a clear understanding of the pistol, instead of playing it off as semantics, I wouldn't have interviened. But after numerous clarifications from myself and others, it's clear that you don't have an understanding of the pistol.

 

[Desertscout]

strangebrew,
I think you may have missed the part where I said that certain injuries to the hand can preclude properly establishing your grip. Especially true for the less experienced. This why many 1911 shooters block out the grip safety on their guns. In this liability conscious world, that is not as popular as it used to be.
We demonstrate in our classes a couple of different possibilities where someone can be injured in the thumb joint of the firing hand and may not be able to disengage a grip safety. Also, those with very short fingers may have trouble gripping the gun properly, especially in a high-stress situation. Add the possibility of injury or shooting with the support hand to this and grip safeties can become a liability to SOME people.