Y'all remember Ernie Chambers, right? (NE)

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SomeKid

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Quick recap for those who may have forgotten him - E.C. has pretty much single-handedly kept Nebraska from being a carry concealed state. Here is more proof he is just a complete nutjob.

http://www.wowt.com/news/headlines/2223346.html

In case anyone doesn't get the point of the thread, it not about religion or prayer. This is just a great chance to see the true colors of one of our foes.

'Omaha Senator Ernie Chambers, who makes it a point not to be present during the daily prayer, rushed from his first-floor office up the stairs to the chamber in time to criticize the remarks shortly after they were completed.

"I have not been as enraged and furious in the Legislature as I am this morning," said an obviously upset Chambers.'
 
For once he might be right.

I don't care about the other stuff but the idea that they'd need 'forgiveness' to aid/abet teaching of evolution & natural selection concepts in schools should have that prayer guy run out of town on a rail...

I don't give a damn about 'under god' in Pledge or 'in god we trust' on coins and paper money - but this creationism/intelligent design stuff needs to be quashed.

We're fighting a battle for education in this country. Aside from the 3Rs, kids need to know how life and biological processes really work. Religionists throwing up their hands and saying "oh, it's too complex, we'll never understand..." is to go back to Dark Ages and magic, which is what creationism is all about. (Intelligent design just moves the marker back a bit further but still it's the same cr*p.)

With their limited thought processes, the Rev's kids won't ever be able to have a tech job that requires thought processes - esp one in the growing biotech industry. They might be well-qualified for WalMart greeter jobs, however.

If religionists want their kids to learn BS, they can send them to private church school.

It'd bad enough to have liberal BS tossed around in the school, but that's more readily filterable as opinion. This is creationism/ID stuff is being couched in scientific terms which makes it more dangerous: kids are accepting of what is presented to them as fact, esp if it comes out of a textbook.

We're prob around 10-15 years away from creating living cells from non-living processes - we've already made the first completely synthetic/man-made virus a year or so ago. I'd like to hear the Rev's backpedaling when that happens...

China must love to see these people control our science education.


Bill Wiese
San Jose
 
Bill, you must not know very many religionist/creationist/whatever you want to call. I am one. (Southern Baptist) I have no problems at all with Biology, or A&P, or all the other fun science classes. Niether do any others. The spew of attacks upon us (only suitable for greeter jobs?) only shows how little you know. Grow up sir.

The whole evolution thing is about the values you teach kids, but to keep from this becoming a religion thread (against what the THR mods like to see), PM me if you'd like to hear more. Just be polite, I won't respond if your message is a diatribe against my percieved simpleness.

The point of posting this was so you could see Ernies mentality. He won't be there for prayer, but if you say something he disapproves of, his righteous indignation sprays out like a jihad. Switch to the gun issue, and you can see the pattern of his insanity. He is a Daley type person, just in Nebraska.
 
The person who invited the speaker of the prayer had this to say; "You don't bring that kind of subject," Cudaback said of Swartley's prayer. "You're here to make us feel good."

That is the real problem in society. People are no longer interested in what God has to say about anything; they just want to feel good, and camoflage their actions by having liars, disguised as preachers and pastors, tell them that God approves of what they are doing and saying. The politically correct religious belief in this nation is Christian, so people call themselves Christian even though they do not believe or practice the doctrines given by Christ. This results in sham prayers at governmental functions and (to a lessor extent) school events, where people pray to God for favor against their rivals in non-religious matters.

This speaker prayed about real matters affecting true Christians; he prayed about issues of morality and glorifying God the creator. Naturally the Fake Christians got upset because he did what a man of God is required to do; remind sinners that they are wrong in the sight of God.
 
BryanP said:
Last time I checked it was about teaching science.
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Evolution is not about teaching science. Science is about facts, and evolution (as taught in government education facilities - you came from a monkey, we have no proof but evolution is real and you came from a monkey) is not a fact.

OoM, not just fake Christians, but good ole gun grabbin Ernie too. These people hate America, and anything involving it.
 
I thought this wasn't going to be about religion?


one of many said:
That is the real problem in society. People are no longer interested in what God has to say about anything; they just want to feel good, and camoflage their actions by having liars, disguised as preachers and pastors, tell them that God approves of what they are doing and saying. The politically correct religious belief in this nation is Christian, so people call themselves Christian even though they do not believe or practice the doctrines given by Christ. This results in sham prayers at governmental functions and (to a lessor extent) school events, where people pray to God for favor against their rivals in non-religious matters.
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Nah, the real problem is that folks are starting to step up and say "I don't go to your church" (or any church at all) without fear of being ostracized by the entire community. The church no longer has a monopoly on religious thought, and that makes the control freaks and our would-be redeemers upset.


somekid said:
Evolution is not about teaching science. Science is about facts, and evolution (as taught in government education facilities - you came from a monkey, we have no proof but evolution is real and you came from a monkey) is not a fact.
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Heh, you might want to do some reading on that subject, recent reading helps.

Prepare for the lock.
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Science is about facts, and evolution (as taught in government education facilities - you came from a monkey, we have no proof but evolution is real and you came from a monkey) is not a fact.
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Funny, in all the years I spent in public schools on the science track, not ONCE was the idea that humans come from monkeys ever presented to me. The theories of natural selection and evolution were presented in classes across the years, AFTER we had learned just what a theory is. The idea the current mankind arose to look the way we do as a result of natural selection from an ape-like ancestor was presented at the best fit theory for the evidence available at the time. That evidence then (1980s) was the fossil record of hominids stretching back roughly 2-3 million years. Additional fossils found, and analysis of DNA from humans and other apes bears this out.

Oh, and science is NOT about facts. Science is about discovery of the way the material world works.
 
SomeKid said:
Evolution is not about teaching science. Science is about facts, and evolution (as taught in government education facilities - you came from a monkey, we have no proof but evolution is real and you came from a monkey) is not a fact.
Click to expand...

There's never 100% proof of anything, esp something we can't see. We do science by examining things and hypothesizing, seeing how reality fits our theory/model, and trying to predict from these hypotheses. We adjust our model as we get more information and discard aspects of it that aren't confirmed thru further observations.

Your standard of proof is so high for this that it can never be 'proven' to you.

Do we know if our model of the nucleus of an atom is correct? Not directly. Can we actually see high-speed neutrons breaking up a nucleus? Nope, but we can measure heat/radiation produced and surmise from this. It's still just a theory - but ask the folks at Hiroshima and Nagasaki how well these theories work.

We DO descend from monkeys.

We're learning more about evolution every day. One of the things we are learning is that it's not just all natural selection with minor accidental genetic changes happening over time and "the best animals win" and breed further. Sometimes major genetic changes occur due to viral (and possibly bacterial) infection - infection appears to allow horizontal (cross-population) genetic transmission, as well as cross-species transmission of genes.

Humanity may well have been caused by diseased monkeys - offspring of whom had capacity for better thought processing and communcation abilities and who interbred and used/improved those capacities to their success.

There is nothing special about humanity other than our capabilities. We're a rather lousy animal in some aspects, with far less native survivability than the great apes, and we just lucked out that the right organ - our brain - evolved and changed and improved over time instead of some other organ or appendage.



OoM, not just fake Christians, but good ole gun grabbin Ernie too. These people hate America, and anything involving it.
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Please don't lump rational people (i.e., nonreligious, thinking) in with 'hate America' and gun-grabbing.

We are NOT a Christian country. Many of our founders were in fact atheists or deists.
 
California Dreamin'

Science is a method of inquiry. It can't rise to the level of religion. Those who make the attempt to place Christian faith in antagonism to science are making an effort to place the work of science as the equal of faith. Likewise, those who attempt to force the study of Christian theories of creation into science curricula are similarly in error. To a Christian, science and atheism and even California are elements of a physical world that can only be explained through faith in God.

Those who assume that people of faith bear offspring incapable of becoming employable as high tech "drones" such as those unfortunates who find a cubbyhole in northern California and other tech centers are feeding their own religion-that they are superior because of their reasoning capacities. It takes both reason and faith to become a Christian, so most elitists who mock people of faith are only half way there...

When all the scientific questions have been answered, we still need to know why it all exists and what design preceded all of our knowledge.

Buddy
 
Sigh,
You know growing up and up until a few years ago I was under the mistaken impression that ALL Christians were Conservative, gun owning, republicans.

I am sad that is not true, but I sure wish it was.

I feel that much of the fabric of our country including the RTKABA has deep roots with the Christian culture. And one of the tenants of Christianity is creation, along with Christ, the Bible and the Ten Commandments. The morals that we as Christians hold dear are tied to the Bible which puts forth as a continual undercurrent the creation of the world by God. Morals such as don't murder, don't steal, don't rape, and the Right to own arms (in Luke Jesus says to His Apostles "he who does not have a sword go sell his coat and buy one"). The undermining of our morals and ethics in our country can I believe be traced straight back to the preaching of the new religion in the class room. After if I am a monkey and your a monkey what does it matter if I hurt you or kill you etc... and why should we grant all these apes the right to defend themselves or own guns?

You see if the Bible isn't true then nothing really matters.

We are NOT a Christian country. Many of our founders were in fact atheists or deists.
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:what: :fire: :fire:

Out of the 70 odd people who are considered founding fathers I believe 63 are on record as saying they are Bible believing Christians Thomas Jefferson was the closest thing we have to an outspoken atheist and he was a Unitarian. And he would probably have shot any one of these creeps who tried to take creation and the use of the BIBLE as a text book out of the public schools.

Our nation was founded as a Christian nation, I care on a personal level about your beliefs but I ain't going to force mine onto you. However this is a nation under God (the true Christian God not some nebulous being) that was the founders intent if you don't believe that check out what they wrote for their individual states constitutions. Most of them had requirements of being professing Christians Bible believers etc... would that they had put that in the Federal constitution. If you don't like it I would ask you to see the door I am happy to have fellow Americans who don't believe what I do as long as they don't change the country to fit their way of life.

You know, evolution can't even win a court case without a biased judge or a slant that Creation some how infringes on the so called separation of church and state (which isn't in the Constitution btw)


-DR
 
Religionists throwing up their hands and saying "oh, it's too complex, we'll never understand..." is to go back to Dark Ages and magic, which is what creationism is all about.
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I'll be sure to pass that along to the creationist MDs, science PhDs, pharmaceutical researchers and others I've known over the years. They're clearly illogical, unrational people that need you to tell them what it's all about.

Their lives will be much less stressful working at Walmart.


Now, evolution debate aside, I think Chambers is a whacko, but I can't fault him for speaking his mind. The real problem is that they want to have a prayer, but they want it for purely political, non-religious reasons. Their goal is to appease the religious demographic while not saying anything that could possibly offend anyone. Either have an honest-to-goodness, first amendment protected prayer, or don't have any prayer at all.

I guess that would offend too many people. So instead we have a compromise. A compromise that offends those same people anyway.
 
Per the Forum Rules:

We have learned from bitter experience that discussions of abortion, religion and sexual orientation often degenerate into less-than-polite arguments or claims that "my God is better than your God". For this reason, we do not discuss such subjects on THR, and any threads dealing primarily with these subjects will be closed or deleted immediately. Threads which deal with other subjects, but which mention abortion, religion or sexual orientation as a side issue, may be allowed to continue, but will be closely scrutinized, and closed or deleted if they "cross the line".
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Closed.

pax
 
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