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You can Mail C&R handguns now (between FFL's)

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Shadow 7D, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Well-Known Member

    Just got off the phone with Classifications and Mailablity for my local PO, he said that he checked and it seems that a C&R (FFL III) can now mail C&R's and receive them.

    Cool, here is the link

  2. browneu

    browneu Well-Known Member


    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
  3. smalls

    smalls Well-Known Member

    Haven't FFL's always been able to ship guns?
  4. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Well-Known Member


    Dealers, Importers, and Manufactures...
    every class except FFL III, Collector of Curio's and Relics
  5. smalls

    smalls Well-Known Member

    You're right, I was thinking of recieving. They could receive C&R guns at they'd address.
  6. mgmorden

    mgmorden Well-Known Member

    This is darned awesome news. Paying for the 2 day shipping was always what made picking up C&R handguns a hassle for me. That and the fact that guns require a signature (and I'm at work on weekdays), and the local UPS office is closed on Saturdays and doesn't open until 10am.

    Post office is open at 8am which I can get to before work, and its open until noon on Saturday. All around, just a lot simpler for me.
  7. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Well-Known Member

    NO, smalls, you couldn't receive them EITHER (language was BETWEEN)
    now you can, now you can get it express or priority registered, no leaving it on your door step, no fudged sig, it's kept in a safe at the post office (registered mail that is, priory, express, well, those rules apply...)
  8. hAkron

    hAkron Well-Known Member

    I have my C&R (though, I must admit I've only used it once or twice). I'm a little confused on this topic. Before this new ruling, the only way I could receive a shipment was 2 day UPS, but now it is legal to have it sent via the cheaper express mail? Is that what you are saying? If so, that's great news!
  9. DMK

    DMK Well-Known Member

    That's interesting. I've had many C&R guns mailed to me by FFLs.
  10. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Well-Known Member

    Read the emphasized section again:

    That doesn't say C&R handguns can be shipped to other C&R holders. It speaks of C&R handguns that are of MUSEUM INTEREST being sent, in effect, to a museum. The paragraph RIGHT BEFORE IT, including the part I BOLDED, below, says:

    The paragraph/section BEFORE the one shown in bold disputes the original claim that started this discussion. Just because it's C&R doesn't mean that it's a firearm "certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum that exhibits firearms to be curios or relics." The citation above say only the C&R weapons that are also ANTIQUE can be mailed.

    Nothing has changed for those of us with a C&R FFL...

    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  11. TonyT

    TonyT Well-Known Member

    Section 12.1.5 is confusing as it states that shipments can be made between C&R's PROVIDING THEY MEET SECTION 12.1.1g AS ANTIQUE FIREARMS. 12.1.1g refers to definition of C&R. 12.1.1h refers to definition of antique guns.
    I beleive this explicitly only permits mailing of ANTIQUE HANDGUNS between C&R holders.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  12. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Well-Known Member

    And the reason for that, I think, is that ANTIQUE firearms are NOT considered firearms by the USPS or the ATF. That's why some businesses can sell antique weapons without an FFL, and pawnshop without FFLs can handle the older stuff. (I think Sportsman's Guide, which sells many different sports-related things, sometimes offers Antique guns at really premium prices...)

    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  13. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Well-Known Member

    2 things
    Major C&R houses are using mail now
    The classifications guy, contacted the ATF and the ATF said it's all good now (between all classes of FFL's)

    the question on the language has been taken by some to mean that: ONLY those guns on the C&R list, not those C&R by virtue of age are allowed...
  14. CZguy

    CZguy Well-Known Member

    Forgive me for being slow, but are you saying that a C&R holder can use USPS to ship a fifty year old gun to another C&R holder?
  15. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Well-Known Member

  16. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Well-Known Member

    I'm glad someone checked with ATF, as the following, straight from the cited regs, says otherwise -- which was my reason for disputing the original claim. (I will check with the ATF myself, to be sure -- as I'd hate to get in hot water over someone else's misreading or misinterpretation of the regulations.)

    a. Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 12.1.1b, and the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 may be mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm under 12.1.1g.

    I don't have any C&R handguns at present, but if I go that route in the future, and the seller is an 03-FFL holder, that'll be a real money saver. (Priority Mail, Insured is BIG TIME cheaper than UPS or FedEx priority air.
  17. mgmorden

    mgmorden Well-Known Member

    They really need to clean up their wording. They mention referencing 12.1.1g for the definition of antique firearm but that's actually 12.1.1h.

    12.1.2a as pointed out by Walt seems to imply that only antiques can be mailed between C&R holders.

    12.1.2b then points out that C&R's of museum interest may be accepted as well.

    To my understanding though that is how C&R firearms get on the actual list of named firearms. The CZ-82 for example isn't 50 years old but a museum curator had it added as it was manufactured in (and marked as such) a country that no longer existed - Czechoslovakia.

    I'm personally going to hold off for a bit before I go USPS for any C&R handguns, but it is actually sounding like C&R's actually named on the C&R list may be mailable but guns that are C&R simply by virtue of being more than 50 years old are not.
  18. TonyT

    TonyT Well-Known Member

    It would be prudent to have the ATF interpretation in writing.
  19. jonnyc

    jonnyc Well-Known Member

    Not sure if it really matters what the ATF says, we need to understand USPS definitions and rules.
  20. stolivar

    stolivar Well-Known Member

    under the Post office

    Nothing has changed. You can not mail between C&R's. What the ATF says is not true. They are talking about mailing between museums.

    Better get that in writing bud.

    steve the mailman

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