You think your school policy is bad?

[RaggedClaws]

This is from an actual university Code of Conduct that all students must agree to and sign before attending classes. I won't say which University it is, but I will say that this is a State university (I am not attending, but someone I know is and is quite upset by this policy).

I am wondering, is this legal? Maybe they meant to say "on school property"?

---------------------------------

E. Standards Relative To The Welfare, Safety and Environmental Health Of The College Community

An offense related to welfare, safety and environmental health of the College community is committed when a person;

1. Uses, possesses or manufactures firearms, explosives, and/or weapons.
Minimum: Suspension Maximum: Expulsion

---------------------------------

This is stating that any student that legally owns (or even uses!) a firearm off campus can be suspended and/or expelled if they are seen and reported. Not to mention that "weapon" is never defined anywhere. Pepper spray? Club? Fencing implement? Kitchen knife? Stick? Stone?

Ridiculous.

 

[Chupacabra]

The college I work at has a similar policy...

(f) Possession or use of firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals or other dangerous weapons or instrumentalities on the University campus, except for authorized University purposes, unless prior written approval has been obtained from the Vice President for Student Affairs, or any other person designated by the President of the University (see WAC 478-124-020 (2)(e)) (legal defense sprays are not covered by this section);

...but is limited to on campus only.

There was a push a little while ago to have the student code of conduct applied off campus but it hasn't gone anywhere. I guess the reasoning behind it was to crack down on off campus drinking, as all the fraternities and sororities are off campus.

 

[Kamicosmos]

Should ask for clarification before getting all worked up. It probably is relating to dorm rooms or on campus. They have ZERO rights to do anything about you do off-campus.

If they say so, then there are other colleges to attend. Make sure to tell them that, and have your friend transfer schools.

 

[RaggedClaws]

If they say so, then there are other colleges to attend. Make sure to tell them that, and have your friend transfer schools.

Yeah, I doubt she will sign it without clarification and/or modification, but transfering schools at this stage will be a big PITA for her (she did ask for clarification already and has not yet signed it).

Sheesh, it's just so crazy. I wonder if she is the first student to actually read that policy before signing it. I mean, how can they ban the use of all weapons off campus? What exactly is a weapon?

 

[2nd Amendment]

...Of The College Community...

They will cite the above as "adequate clarification", meaning on-campus only...for now. If a method ever presents itself to extend something off-campus, and the then controlling interests of the school are sufficiently leftist, they'll cite the same passage to justify that as well.

 

[SteveS]

They have ZERO rights to do anything about you do off-campus.

I disagree. As much as I disagree with these types of rules, especially in this situation, I don't see a barrier to them punishing students for off campus behavior. My school kicked out several students that had participated in a riot off campus. I also worked at a school that had sanctions for students that had off campus alcohol violations. Additionally, if you sign a code of conduct that says you can't do _____ and you do ______, you violated the agreement.

Personally, If I were "caught" with a gun off campus and it was legal and they tried to kick me out, I would claim that my second amendment rights were being violated. Unfortunately, I don't know of many courts that would share this opinion.

 

[Barbara]

Being a state school, I'm not sure they can tell you not to own a gun off campus.

The private university I went to was a Christian school and you could theoretically be expelled for drinking or such.

 

[SteveS]

Being a state school, I'm not sure they can tell you not to own a gun off campus.

Barb, both examples I gave happened at state schools and dealt with off campus behavior. Telling students they can't own guns off campus kind of reminds me of Weyco firing employees for smoking at home.

 

[Standing Wolf]

It's never too soon to start turning young minds into socialist cesspools.

 

[heisler]

My university is just as bad. They don't allow firearms anywhere on campus. That means no Olympic shooting and no Biathlon.

Additionally, they have heavy restrictions on free speech. You're not allowed to say or publish anything that offends (or MAY offend ) another person. I'm not making this up. They can expel you for hurting somebody's feelings.

But hey, what do you expect from Canada? :banghead:

 

[uvakat]

Here's the policy on mine...
The possession, storage, or use of any kind of ammunition, firearms, fireworks, explosives, air rifles, and air pistols on University owned or operated property, without the expressed written permission of the University Police, is prohibited.

and nobody I know of has every gotten premission... I was told it is pretty cut and dry that you would be denied even with a concealed carry permit.

 

[jefnvk]

Well, too bad for you. My college provides me a place to store my weapons in, and a range to shoot at. Not the perfect setup, I'd like a gun cabinet in my room, but better than any other college I looked at.

 

[zahc]

wow, that original post is the worst I've seen, just because of the ambiguity regarding where and when it applies.

My school has a policy about no 'weapons' of any kind anywhere on campus. INCLUDING locked in a car in a parking lot. When I inquired as to what a 'weapon' is I was told 'knives or blades of any description, paintball guns, firearms, air guns, water guns if they resemble real guns...'

Since the majority of male students on campus are shaved, I can only conclude that the rules are not enforced as written.

I live off campus, obviously.

 

[Aggie1]

Barb, both examples I gave happened at state schools and dealt with off campus behavior. Telling students they can't own guns off campus kind of reminds me of Weyco firing employees for smoking at home.

That is not the same thing. Both of your examples involve illegal activity off-campus. Owning firearms is not illegal and therefore none of the school's business.

 

[DelayedReaction]

Here's the code at the University of Maryland:

9. The following misconduct is subject to disciplinary action:
(b) Unauthorized use, possession or storage of any weapon on university premises or at university-sponsored activities.

And the relevant definitions:

(h) the term "university premises" means buildings or grounds owned, leased, operated, controlled or supervised by the university.

(i) the term "weapon" means any object or substance designed to inflict a wound, cause injury, or incapacitate, including, but not limited to, all firearms, pellet guns, switchblade knives, knives with blades five or more inches in length, and chemicals such as "Mace" or tear gas.

(j) the term "university-sponsored activity" means any activity on or off campus which is initiated, aided, authorized or supervised by the university.

The University has no formal declaration on who authorizes the weapons, and furthermore the descriptions about "university premises" and "university-sponsored activity" could feasibly be applied to almost anything.

It's not a very gun-friendly campus.

 

[Scottmkiv]

My college's weapons policy prohibited just about anything remotely weapon-like.

It also prohibited "infernal devices" and that sure had me scratching my head.

in·fer·nal ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-fûrnl)
adj.

Of or relating to a lower world of the dead.
Of or relating to hell: infernal punishments; infernal powers.
Fiendish; diabolical: infernal instruments of war.
Abominable; awful: the infernal racket of the jackhammers.

 

[CAS700850]

RaggedClaws,

Do they have ROTC on campus? Bet there are a few firearms there. Anyone at school in the military reserves? Bet they possess firearms on occassion. Anyone a part-time student that might be a law enforcement officer? Kick them out.

The policy is badly written and overbroad. What would happen if the student refuses to sign? Will they refuse to admit them? If you sign, you have enterred into a contract of sorts, and you are bound by the terms. Violate those terms and they may respond as indicated in the contract.

 

[SteveS]

That is not the same thing. Both of your examples involve illegal activity off-campus. Owning firearms is not illegal and therefore none of the school's business.

I agree that it is none of their business, but I still don't see a barrier to a school doing this. In a similar situation, Weyco fired several employees for smoking at home, a legal activity. Even the ACLU said there was nothing in the law to prevent their firing. I don't see anything in the law that said they couldn't kick out a student for violating something that they signed, even if it is moronic and intrusive.

My advice would be to shop around and pick a school that has a more favorable policy.

 

[Evil_Ed]

Steve,
The difference is that Weyco was a private company and can make employment dependent upon any restrictions they wish as long as it isn't in the form of government prohibited discrimination (although the argument can be made that the government has no right to interfere with a businesses decisions to hire/fire anyone or sell to whomever they choose). The universities and colleges that are state institutions and recieve federal and state money to operate are by definition an extension of the government and therefore can not legally restrict your constitutional freedoms. Technically all the no guns on campus rules are unconstitutional but good luck getting that changed any time soon.

 

[Bear Gulch]

These rules have been brought up out of fear of Columbine like behavior. Ask you school Public Safety office how may rapes or attempted rapes, assaults, robberies etc were reported last year. What the schools all fail to look at is they import tons of kids, deprive them of meaningful self defense (btw how many girls openly carry pepper spray on campus?), and put up signs inviting the predators to the feast.

My Alma Mater had numerous scandals where assaults were covered up to protect enrollment numbers. I believe that their thinking is fairly representative of Universities everywhere.

 

[SteveS]

Ed, I understand the distinction and I also agree that you are not likely to get any backing from the gov't in regards to a challenge of a deprivation of your Constitutional rights. When was the last time you saw a law regulating the use of firearms to be unconstitutional? I realize that it happens occasionally, but most courts would likely see this as "reasonable."

Has anyone ever been disciplined for having a gun off campus? Maybe we are just worrying about nothing and the policy is there to discipline students that are arrested and convicted of some type of weapons violation. As a side note, my employer has a similar policy.

 

[Bear Gulch]

I would assume that it appies to dorms and school campus, not your off campus residence. I frankly lived in a crappy neighborhood as an undergrad (and even in grad school) as it was affordable. I had either a security six or a Hi Power on me all ove the time. I knew I'd get in dutch if caught but felt that risk was less that the risk of being unarmed.

 

[mr.trooper]

The policy at the private college i attend is much lighter than average.

Students are not allowed to be in posession of firearms, but dormitory students may posses them by turning their firearms and all ammunition over to campus police in a locked container, and they will "hold" it for you untill you need to take it to the range, go hunting, ect.

We also have many dormitory AND day students that are either current military (a lot of marines ) or are in the reservs, and we have a fairly active Criminal Justice Program, so im assuming that there are at least a few non-student owned firearms on campus?

We have never had a poblem in the 80 years it has been established.

 

[Thrash1982]

I guess I'm lucky. My University provides members of the Rifle/Pistol club a locker to store personal guns. Storing guns in a locked car is also acceptable. I live off campus this year so I don't have to worry about it and can keep all my guns with me.

 

[scout26]

How about just striking out the offending language and then signing ???