Picked Uo A Couple 870's Today

Well, I'm willing to bet you shot Wingmasters in your youth, and IMO these are not even close.

Good luck in your endeavors, sir, but those new guns aren't like yesteryear.

I shot skeet for years with a 12 ga Wingmaster 26" IC VR barrel back in the late 60's. Best shotgun I ever owned.

Regards,

Jim

You did fine and since there is only one 870 and they differ only by finish and furniture and only one or two small parts that are mostly for Marketing, you have two great guns. They have all the same parts the myth about the Wingmaster being better is just that, a myth. Yours will be just as smooth as any 870 once you break them in.

Great price on two great guns and they will last your life time and that of whomever you pass them down to.

@AI&P Tactical

You did fine and since there is only one 870 and they differ only by finish and furniture and only one or two small parts that are mostly for Marketing, you have two great guns. They have all the same parts the myth about the Wingmaster being better is just that, a myth. Yours will be just as smooth as any 870 once you break them in.

Great price on two great guns and they will last your life time and that of whomever you pass them down to.

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Well, sir, I must disagree in part.

While the 870 as marketed today is still a solid dependable shotgun, Remingtons produced in the last decade cannot hold a candle to the Wingmasters produced in the 50's and 60's. It is merely a matter of economics and changes in the Remington corporation. Bean counters still hold sway, and there is no way that the currently produced 870's are on a par with the Wingmasters of days past.

Your sig says you are an 870 armorer. How many times do you have to tweak the new guns? The old ones, brand new, ran right out of the box, no tweaking. Fit and finish back then was not a matter of pricing as it is these days, it was about Remington quality and their reputation as being better than Winchester or Mossberg. Been there, done that, and I am not talking tacticool about anything.

@red rick

They are not bad , I bought one a year ago for myself and have been happy with it , thus the reason I bought 2 more.

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Having said all of the above, you have two or more dependable guns, much more so than Mossbergs or Winchesters, but IMO, not as smooth and slick as I know the Wingmasters from 50+ years ago.

Just my $.02 worth. And you can take or leave my opinions as you wish.

Regards,

Jim

Much more so than mossbergs eh? My sample size of 2 mossbergs and 3 late model 870s is quite the contrary. The 870s I have tried jam on occasion and fail to extract. I have polished the chambers with steel wool on a bronze brush chucked in a drill. No help. My mossberg 590 and the 500s I've shot have had no issues. /$.02

I purchased an 870 Express a few years back for $265. I use it for grouse and as an extra implement to lend to others at the trap range.

At the low price point I find the Express a good value.

Also, I know several others with 870 Express or Mossberg 500. I have seen little difference in function.

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Do you seriously think that I want to spend Wingmaster money for a gun that I am going to let novice use , get real.

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Well, sir, I didn't think you were going to spend real $ just to give them away. I figured you would just let them borrow the guns and then you would still have them in your inventory. Not my choice.

If not, why not let a novice try out an old Wingmaster vs a new 870 Express or whatever new 870 you purchase for comparison? At last glance one can purchase a used (slick) 870 Wingmaster for less than new cost. But then, I am just an old fart that appreciates old shotguns.

I will guarantee that the old Wingmasters will run rings around a NIB 21st century run-of-the-mill 870 insofar as slide action. They don't wear out. The manufacturing of the newer 870's are not nearly on par as the classics. You might get the new ones to equal the old ones with a lot of massaging, but that equals either $ or sweat equity.

Your choice.

Sorry if I offended you.

Jim

Much more so than mossbergs eh? My sample size of 2 mossbergs and 3 late model 870s is quite the contrary. The 870s I have tried jam on occasion and fail to extract. I have polished the chambers with steel wool on a bronze brush chucked in a drill. No help. My mossberg 590 and the 500s I've shot have had no issues. /$.02

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See the bold. You just hit the nail squarely on the head.

3 late Model 870s.

I can't make it any more plain than that.

My context is the OLD model Wingmasters, and you fail to designate which "late" 870's of which you speak. Wow. You have 2 Mossbergs you like, and have 3 870's you don't like.

Why do you still have the 870's?

Sell or trade them for more aluminum Mossbergs. If you like alloy, great. I like old solid steel receivers.

Kind of like alloy frame 1911 pistols.

Jim

@red rick- that's awesome that you did that. You'll have to write back once the season starts and let us know how it goes. All about passing it forward

First you can't just run out and buy 2 decent old wingmasters for $226 anymore
Nothing still made today is made the same as the 50's and 60's just a fact

1Kperday what ammo you using nothing made is 100% reliable with the cheap 100 packs sold at big box store

If you have ever worked in manufacturing you would know a bad one gets by once in a while you can not check every part on every gun with out a dramatic increase in price

I know what kind of work Mr McGuire (AI&P tactical) does on 870's so I will go with his opinion

expat_alaska said:

My context is the OLD model Wingmasters, and you fail to designate which "late" 870's of which you speak. Wow.

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Don't get too excited there...

plumberroy said:

1Kperday what ammo you using nothing made is 100% reliable with the cheap 100 packs sold at big box store

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Federal bulk which IME is the best of the cheaper stuff and runs flawlessly in all my other shotguns (except the 870s).

I am aware that Winchester Universals are universally crap.

I agree on the Federal bulk. It cycles well in the Beretta auto loader while the Winchester gets the occasional stovepipe.

Good job on giving those kids the opportunity to enjoy a shooting sport. Too few kids get that opportunity these days. My daughters love shooting a rifle. I haven't got them into shotguns yet but I was just looking at them the other day at Sportsmans. Nice deal on yours.

I'm 24 and have gotten several of my buddies into hunting over the years. I shoot a bps for all my birds. Told them to buy 870s when they were ready for their own guns. 4/4 now shoot 870s of some flavor. And they
All work as intended if you don't shoot the crap Winchester steel based dove loads.

They do seem to rust easily but this year I'll see if I can get one guy to heat the gun and apply motor oil and another guy to use paste wax on them.
HB

Good on you for getting extra shotguns to introduce new folks to shooting and hunting.

expat Alaska.....Bean counters still hold sway, and there is no way that the currently produced 870's are on a par with the Wingmasters of days past.

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Hate to hurt your feeling but accounting departments don't make executive decisions.

Congrats red rick, it always helps to have new hunters.

I don't understand why some people are beating up the OP for his choice in shotguns. He never made any claims about the new being better than the old. He wants to introduce new hunters to the sport and picked up a couple of affordable shotguns that will do the job just fine. I say good for him, I hope his little friends have a lot of fun out there.

My context is the OLD model Wingmasters, and you fail to designate which "late" 870's of which you speak. Wow.

Don't get too excited there...

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Please explain.

I know the OP is just wanting a run-of-the mill pair of modern 870's that Remington has produced in the last decade or so, to introduce a couple of novice shooters into whatever sport he wants.

These days, Remington is not close to what Remington was in the first two decades of 870 production, and I don't think anyone with knowledge will deny that.

My point was to introduce these folks into a slick, well used Wingmaster that functions flawlessly. IMO, the Remington Express guns are not even close unless a bit of gunsmithing has been done to them.

If the OP is satisfied with the non-Wingmaster guns, great.

Yeah, I hope his little friends have fun. It could be that they may have better fun. And that the owner could put better guns in his safe.

I am done here.

Jim

I would like it explained how a Wingmaster could be smoother when the only parts that make any contact are the same. If you simply look at the parts list you see that they only make one forend tube assembly in Black Oxide which is on every 870 except of course the Marine. The Police, Wingmaster and Express have the same forend tube assembly and the same slide.

The parts making any contact are the same and in the same receiver. Nothing else is going on to cause any friction that would make one model not as smooth as another.

I guess responding to this will require a little knowledge of the parts list and how an 870 operates but I sure would like to hear the an explaination.

Of course I can give you the answer now. Round count smooths out a pump shotgun. Maybe that is what is confusing people about the differenet models. They shoot an old Wingmaster that is slicker then eel snot then go buy a new Express and go shoot it then get on a forum complaining the Express is not as smooth as the Wingmaster.

The Exception to this is the Marine. The finishing process is of course on the exact same parts as any 870 but material is added and the Marine needs thousands of rounds to catch up to other 870, if it can even be smoothed out.

red rick

Never mind the naysayers; good job introducing new shooters and hunters to the fold. Keep up the good work.