"40 is a dead caliber"

RX-79G said:

I really have nothing to prove, especially to you. That photo was attached to information about .40 Glock wear I found. If you have information to prove it is a 9mm frame, please post that. If you have information that it is from a failure, post that information.

You asked a question and I attempted to answer it. In return you've been rude and utterly in character with the kind of people I constantly run into when something so emotional as a caliber is on the line.

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Look at the image I posted, everything is there for you to find it yourself on the web. If you choose to feel offended, that's your choice. The conversation was supposed to be about if 40s do or don't wear out faster. Not throwing around the "now I know you're the one who is emotional" accusation. You haven't even gone as far to answer how competitive shooters aren't wearing out their 40s. I've been shooting for several years and have never seen it. Instead, you grabbed some random picture off the WWW which wouldn't have even made your point if it was from a Glock chambered in 40, which it wasn't.

So, answer me this; why don't competitive shooters, many who use Glock 22s and 35s, don't run into the problem of frame battering?

http://handgunplanet.com/review/speer-gold-dot-g2-ballistic-test/
funny thing is the new fbi speer g2 round fails ballistic tests

I don't think the 40 will be dead for quite some time. I think that was a useless assessment made by the salesman. I agree with a prior post that it has lost some of its luster.

I find it interesting that Ruger came out with their American Pistol, chambered in 9mm & 45. No 40 as of yet. Was that because of the American was to possibly compete for a military contract? Or do they feel that the SR40 is enough offering in the 40?

Another observance, the local Walmarts around here usually have a better selection of 9s and 45s that 40s. Too, except for a time the Coast Guard did their annual qualifications. I have never came across a trove of 40 brass like I have with 9 and sometimes 45.

As with so many markets, what's cool at the time. But who knows, the 40 popularity may surge again.

One thing to keep in mind that during ammo shortage the only calibers readily available were: .40S&W, .44Mag, .454,..... The advantage of 9 Luger over .40S&W is that pistols for former can be made smaller and still be usable. I one wants to own large pistol I would pick .40 or .45ACP.

Gtscotty said:

It's pretty clear that expanded .40's will generally have a larger expanded diameter than 9mm of similar construction. Given there larger expanded frontal area, there will be a larger cylinder of crushed tissue. As ATLDave stated, what the decision maker does with that information at that point will be somewhat subjective, a balancing of tradeoffs. The tradeoffs that the FBI elected to make aren't necessarily the same that any other group or individual should elect to make. There FBI's moves are a data point, but don't necessarily close the case on the subject.

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Precisely this. Well said, Gtscotty.

Note: I own, and have owned, exactly ZERO 40 S&W-chambered firearms. My bedside safe gun is a 9mm. I am not a .40 fanboy, loyalist, groupie, etc. Not that any of that should matter, but it seems like there's an assumption that if you make any statement that acknowledges any advantages of .40 over 9, you must be some sort of kool-aid drinking cult member. Which is silly.

H&K is moving away from it.

They are discounting their new 40's by a few hundred dollars.

Probably because agencies are moving away from it and new sales are slumping.

Might be time to buy one.

But they just introduced the VP40 ?

I emailed H&k and asked :

Is it true you discounting weapons in 40 S&W ?
And discounting the ones already out ?
Response :

No...not true.

Thank you


HK Customer Service Team
5675 Transport Blvd.
Columbus, GA 31907
Tel: (706) 568-1906 ext 6551
Fax: (706) 568-9151
Hours: M-F 8:30 - 4:30 EST

more internet rumors, I never understood the 40 HATE from the 9mm fanboys ?
The 40 is alive and well and in service in many many Agencies , every gun store I go in has equal shelf space of 9mm and 40 sw ammo and equal amounts
of 40 and 9mm handguns and I have asked the gun counter guys are you still selling 40sw they reply tons of them ,
The internet hype is really a bunch of untrue pumped up BS in my opinion, if you prefer 9mm shoot that , or 40sw shoot that, 45 acp thats good too !!

Here is the second part of my email to
HK,

From HK :

John,

HK is not moving away from the 40 cal!!! Rumor, Rumor, Rumor!!!!

Thank you


HK Customer Service Team
5675 Transport Blvd.
Columbus, GA 31907
Tel: (706) 568-1906 ext 6551
Fax: (706) 568-9151
Hours: M-F 8:30 - 4:30 EST

Caliber wars are such a waste of time and energy. I wasted a good couple of hours arguing with a 45 acp maniac a couple of days ago, and I even told him I carry 45acp and that wasn't good enough. 45 was the end all be all caliber in his eyes and everyone carrying anything else was stupid lol. 9, 40, 45 all are capable calibers of putting someone down. 9 is the most popular world wide, while 40 and 45 are more popular in America for whatever reason (probably because it was born here). 40 ain't going nowhere guys. Guns designed around 9mm and then made into a 40 do seem to take more punishment, look at 40 cal CZ's that break slide lock pins more so than 9mm. Guns made from the ground up as 40 caliber last as long as any gun without problems. I have no proof of this statement, just what I've seen over the years

Whether HK is thinking about dumping .40 or not, they aren't going to damage the sales of all their unsold .40 products by saying so.

What is likely happening is that distributors and vendors are the ones marking guns down that aren't selling. No one marks anything down out of kindness - if .40s happen to be discounted it is to move them - probably before another large PD dumps theirs on the market.

It doesn't really matter what anyone personally believes - the influence makers have spoken and .40 has gone from the perfect compromise to a cartridge that offers less than it demands. It doesn't matter if that is academically, mathematically true - it is the way the wind is blowing.

Some new development may blow back the other way, but that isn't happening right now.


I don't think anyone is against the idea of the 10mm caliber medium class neckless pistol cartridge. I just think it has yet to be done to the best effect. One of the reasons we have 9mm Luger is because there were so many 9mm/.38 auto cartridges fielded in the 20th century, and 9mm Luger was really one of the very best designs. I think we can do better than 10mm, .40 and .41AE, so maybe it will take a few more tries to get right.

A couple years ago I bought a G26 for $350 and they wanted $425 for a G27.
I found a G27 last year for $400 and bought it. Now we are to believe that the gun companies are on the verge of discontinuing the 40? More false news

There's a serious lack of nuance among auto handgun calibers. Clearly we need a .39 ACP and a .43 ACP to fill the gaps.

X-Rap, beat the rumormongers by getting a 40-9 conversion barrel and shoot 9mm.

I remember going to the Masters competition in Barry Ill. back when the .40 was first introduced and S&W had a booth set up where you could shoot a mag through it for a couple of bucks. Of course I had to get in line. I was not impressed and never had any interest in it after that. But I guess if a manufacturer wants to hot rod an existing 9mm platform they are already tooled to produce it was a great idea. In a High Power it would make a good "shoot it a little and carry it a lot" type of gun. Heavy use of warm .40 loads might beat a High Power up some after a while.

Face reality, untold thousands of pistols are in use in this country not counting the infastructure that has products to support the caliber, it (.40) is not going to fade away.
Who comes up with goofy ideas like this anyway? We all know the FBI is too busy with Hillary to have time to properly test any weapon they will change to this week, or probably again next week.
In my thirty years with a PD the FBI swore by:
38 special +P+
9mm
10mm
.40
9mm
I would not gurantee they will be satisfied with the 9mm again and probably settle on a bow and arrow to satisfy the recoil challenged cry babies.

Sad but almost certainly true. Sometimes I amuse myself by imagining some of the kids of today going into Basic and suddenly meeting my old Drill Instructor. (1971) It would make a great reality show.

JO JO said:

Here is the second part of my email to
HK,

From HK :

John,

HK is not moving away from the 40 cal!!! Rumor, Rumor, Rumor!!!!

Thank you


HK Customer Service Team
5675 Transport Blvd.
Columbus, GA 31907
Tel: (706) 568-1906 ext 6551
Fax: (706) 568-9151
Hours: M-F 8:30 - 4:30 EST

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The Choice Of Experts Everywhere.
(Check out the Magazine)

As said above, caliber wars are a waste of time.
Of course, if you want a real man stopper, try one of these:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/825_magnum.htm

I've been known to twist the tails of zealots from both sides to prove this point.

The 40 has a strong following and will prevail.

A lot of counter clerks are no better than Mall Ninjas when it comes to actual firearm knowledge.
This whole thread is based on the comments of one of these "experts"

Steve

Opinions are free of charge. That is why we hear about so many w/o any evidence nor logic to support it.

While .40 S&W is far from my favorite caliber to shoot, it's not bad and if I can score some really sweet deals on these "relic" guns chambered in it, I would be all over that. People are sheep. The FBI changes and all of the sheep followed and now, ".40 S&W is dead". Not really though, I know a lot of people who shoot them, reload for them and have a lot of ammo for them.

Steve Cover said:

Of course, if you want a real man stopper, try one of these:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/825_magnum.htm

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Thanks for the link; good and funny stuff. "This is because big game has, undeniably, become progressively harder to kill during the last century." "(Today, of course, we all know that even the smallest deer have become completely immune to .357 Magnum bullets.)"

I don't know that I would say the .40 is dead per se, but it's popularity and frequency of use is certainly declining as of recent times. My thinking is the reason for this is people and agencies are finally realizing that with the right bullet choice and proper shooting technique there really isn't much difference at all between the standard service calibers. 9mm, .40,.357,.45 can all be decent threat stoppers and can also all be abismal stoppers. The key elements are bullet choice and the skill of the user. With 9mm being cheaper, it allows more practice in theory providing for better shooters. With 9mm being popular, there are a ton of great, street proven rounds on the market that perform well in a variety of situations. With the 9mm being smaller, you get a wide range of small carry pistols that can still be very effective, as well as the benefit of more round capacity in a given platform in general. With 9mm being not quite as snappy as some others, even smaller or more recoil sensitive shooters can shoot it fairly well, and well skilled seasoned shooters can shoot 9mm great on almost all accounts.
(With full power loads, you may group better using a Glock 23 in .40 than I can with a Glock 19 in 9mm, but I doubt you will group better yourself with a 23 in .40 than a 19 in 9mm)
All of these points make the 9mm, once seen as a weakling, as a great choice for duty or personal defense carry. Because of that more people are gravitating back toward 9mm and away from .40, leaving the popularity of 40 in decline.

I can not believe that the 9mm is now equal to a 357 mag ?
I do agree with some of what you say but the 9mm is just a 9mm I can't see how due to internet hype its now equal to the 357 mag ,
I bet next month we could use the mighty 9mm as a sniper round , ship deck gun or field artillery round I just do not believe its equal to a
357 mag or a 45 acp or a 40, it has been said that the 9mm is comparable to a 38 spl but you have more rounds carried
this is just getting silly now !!