Lyman GPR Flint: Fantasy Piece?

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Panzerschwein

Panzerschwein

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Hey guys! As some of you may know I am looking at all my options for a flintlock rifle, actually my first black powder rifle ever. I have been firing the pistols for a long time and love it and want to get into the rifles this spring/summer.

So I have heard a lot good about the Lyman Great Plains Rifles for an affordable yet very good quality rifle. Now I know these are based on the J&S Hawken rifles that were made as percussion guns. So that makes me wonder... is something like the Lyman GPR with a flintlock a "fantasy" gun?

FR0106.jpg


To all you experts out there, do you know of any flintlock rifles that were made in this general pattern, that being a half-stocked "plains" type rifle? Or were all the guns produced like this made in percussion only? Not necessarily by just the Hawken bros., but by the other makers of plains rifles as well.

Just a question for you rifle gurus out there. It's not a deal killer if this would be an inauthentic design, I really like the rustic straightforward look and apparently these are a step above the Traditions guns but don't cost as much as a Pedersoli.

Thanks! :)
 
The Great Plains style rifles were made individually according to the taste and purse. Caliber, barrel length, length of pull and drop of stock (as well as cap or flint) can vary. Generally though the Great Plains is closer to the rifles of that era than the T/C Hawkins. During the Civil War Dimick supplied sporting rifles to the 14th Missouri Volunteer Infantry (aka 66th Illinois Volunteer Infantry/Brige's Western Sharp Shooters). Dimick did not make all these rifles himself and bought other rifles with which he supplied that regiment. They were similar to the Lyman Great Plains. The National Firearms Museum has one in its collection.

BTW, add a cap/patchbox. It'll improve it immensely.
 
Plenty were built and moved out west during the plains years. I have an article by Dr. Shumway that shows one by Jacob Kuntz in his Longrifle Articles, Volume 1 on page 12 & 13. Half-stock flintlocks were also made in Georgia with examples surviving built by Wiley Higgins and Templeton Reid. There are also many built in North Carolina, builder such as Henry Ledford, Jabez Stephens and William Lamb.

Lots of them. Their names may not be as famous as Hawken but they built beautiful rifles. Here is one built by John Moll in PA,

http://www.kahnfineantiques.com/index.cfm?page=7&Id=3043
 
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I'm saying if they are building them in Pennsylvania, Georgia and North Carolina, just to name a few, they're building them out west also.
 
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The Lyman rifle is a Generic style of rifle. If you want a historically correct rifle you will have to buy a custom build.
The Lyman is an economically priced rifle. In my opinion they are reliable and accurate production rifles. ;)
 
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The John Browning Mtn. Rifle was close to the Hawken Rifle. The JBM had the double wedges and the lines were acceptable. The early models were serviceable and were made in Ogden, Ut.
They failed in the market place and the later models were of poor quality. The JBM barrels varied in dimensions. There is a perfect original Hawken on display at the Fur Trade Museum in Chadron, Neb. It is worth viewing when comparing the originals to today's offerings.:thumbup:
 
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I've always heard that no one has ever found any percussion caps, spent or unspent, at the Alamo site. Has that statement been updated or unchanged?

If it is and that is the going theory then you have to consider that was in 1836 and have to conclude that there were still many people on the frontier were still heavily dependent upon their flintlock rifles.
 
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The Lyman GPR is widely respected as a fine, accurate rifle. While not a replica of a Hawken, it does have similar lines and is a fairly close representation. Hawkens were not prevalent on the frontier; they were costly, heavy and not commonly encountered. There's still some debate whether any of the half stock Hawkens were flintlocks. "Fantasy" rifle is nonsensical and without any logical definition. I'd snap it up in a flash; no pun intended.
 
Hanshi said:
The Lyman GPR is widely respected as a fine, accurate rifle. While not a replica of a Hawken, it does have similar lines and is a fairly close representation. Hawkens were not prevalent on the frontier; they were costly, heavy and not commonly encountered. There's still some debate whether any of the half stock Hawkens were flintlocks. "Fantasy" rifle is nonsensical and without any logical definition. I'd snap it up in a flash; no pun intended.
Click to expand...
Hi Hanshi, You have shared your knowledge regarding BP arms on ML.Com for many years:thumbup:. There were likely more smooth guns during the Fur Trade than rifles. Company Trappers rented their smooth bores from the company.o_O
 
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If you want something a bit more authentic, the Euroarms 1803 Harpers Ferry rifle is available for $795. This is a half stock rifle, in .54 cal., with a steel ramrod and reinforced cock. (It's actually closer to the 1814 second model than to the original 1803, and it needs some work, for example to the front sight, to make it more authentic.)
 
AlexanderA said:
If you want something a bit more authentic, the Euroarms 1803 Harpers Ferry rifle is available for $795. This is a half stock rifle, in .54 cal., with a steel ramrod and reinforced cock. (It's actually closer to the 1814 second model than to the original 1803, and it needs some work, for example to the front sight, to make it more authentic.)
Click to expand...
That's real close to the rifle the corp of discovery had issued.(Lewis and clark)
 
Crawdad1 said:
I've always heard that no one has ever found any percussion caps, spent or unspent, at the Alamo site. Has that statement been updated or unchanged?

If it is and that is the going theory then you have to consider that was in 1836 and have to conclude that there were still many people on the frontier were still heavily dependent upon their flintlock rifles.
Click to expand...

Flints don't last forever either. If anyone was looking for signs of the styles of firearms used at the Alamo by searching for evidence of primers then they should also have found some short used up flints. Likely brushed them aside while being focused on their quest for the cap shards? :)

My own Lyman has been a superb black powder gun. It took me a while to learn the tricks of the trade about handling a flint lock but the others in the Flint Family at my club were extremely helpful.

It may be a sort of "updated antique" what with the coil spring being used as a main spring and the washer on the left instead of a brass screw plate. But that's OK with me. It still stands on its own as a nicely made and highly reliable gun with a strong dose of the old days to it.
 
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Back in the 19th century there were a lot of gun builders (more than any of us can surely name) and many of them built several one time only examples, so claiming "Fantasy" status in this case would be a bit presumptuous, and more than likely based on ignorance more than anything.
 
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