Sorry, but no! You're comparing very mild 30-06 loads to some pretty extreme 358 loads that may or may not be possible to achieve. But assuming 2550 fps from a 358/225 is possible lets compare it to other cartridges. A 180 gr Accubond in 30-06 can be loaded to nearer 2900 fps, not 2700 fps. Assuming 2850 fps ( about where mine are loaded) the 30-06 trails 358 by only 40 ft. lbs. energy at the muzzle. At 100 yards the 30-06 load will have almost 600 ft lbs more energy than 358 has at 200 yards. The 30-06 will lead by about 200 ft. lbs if both are impacting at 200 yards and the gap widens as range increases.
The best 308 factory loads will push 178-180 gr bullets over 2750 fps and pass the 358 at some point inside of 200 yards. The 358 has an edge at the muzzle, but a 30-30 will kill any animal in NA at the muzzle.
http://www.hornady.com/store/308-Win-178-gr-BTHP-Superformance-Match/
Wanna compare 358 to 300 mag. My 300 WSM shoots 200 gr ELDX or Accubonds to 2800 fps for almost 3500 ft. lbs. at the muzzle. At 200 yards it beats 358 by about 500 ft. lbs.
And it does it with less recoil than 358. These are real numbers from real rifles, not potential numbers made up by looking at loading manuals. Start shooting 180 or 200 gr bullets from 300WM and the difference is even more substantial. A 300 WM firing 200 gr bullets at 2950 fps. has about the same energy at 200 yards that the 358 has at the muzzle.
Plus the 200-220 gr 30 caliber bullets have proven they will out penetrate anything in 33 or 35 calibers on large game.
Will a 358 kill any animal in NA? You bet it will. But so will every other cartridge that has been developed since the 1890's. The 358 is an interesting cartridge, but there is a reason it never caught on and will always be a niche cartridge. In the real world it fills a very narrow gap between 308 and 30-06 at close to medium range, but with near 300 WM recoil. Beyond 200 yards it can't hang with even 308; 30-06 and 300 mag beat it at all ranges. Most hunters they have decided that if they are going to deal with recoil greater than 30-06, then they want more performance than 30-06.
Hi jmr40,
Please let me further explain.
The buffalo bore loads for both calibers were taken from high performance grizzly loads that like other high performance are well known to be true and tested and great killers no matter what choice of caliber.
Unlike other ammunition manufacturers they even advertise the actual firearms used for testing and more can be obtained with careful reload and testing.
I compared to the same full power loads and type of bullet from the same manufacturer, buffalo bore in this case.
Please notice the 225gr 358win is mislabeled and based on their tests and our own experience can produce more speed with soft points than the solid bullets.
If you look at the speeds from hornady superformance those are projected from 24" barrels and of course this is relative because many people end up with
a more popular 20 to 22" barrel yet, of course one can achieve more with either caliber, with longer barrels, and with careful reloading.
Also I am referring to killing power that is directly proportional to momentum, SD and frontal section, not energy alone. Energy might be higher with both the WM and 30-06 but not momentum and killing power, all complete different things.
Energy says something of course but it doesn't define the killing power as other vectors need to be introduced like speed, grain, sd, frontal section and of course the proper terminal design.
The kinetic energy is also source for a lot of talk and confusion and never understood well why companies advertise it including muzzle values.
Don't get me wrong the 30-06 and 300 WM are both excellent killers and need no introduction but this is just to say that there is more about the 35 winchester that meets the eye and
why it is a popular fast killer, just like the whelen that is another huge powerhouse even with 250gr bullets.
The 35 winchester is not for long range or to be matched to certain magnums or other calibers at a distance but it provides some distinctive advantages and in great part due to the
amazing capability for the 35 caliber bullets to provide fast kills including the larger game.
Regarding recoil there is no way around. One wants power (momentum), one gets recoil. That is the trade-off as dictated by physics.
In a nut shell we can summarize its characteristics like this:
- It shoots with the trajectories of a 308 Winchester to 300 yards bringing more momentum and killing power.
- It uses 308 cases that can be easily reloaded, one quick run through the die and presto.
- It brings mangum-like killing power (not simply energy) to the average ranges most people hunt within 100-200 yards.
- Loaded mildly makes a great white tail and hog round and it can use inexpensive 357 pistol rounds for practice and these or other smaller game.
- It is very efficient with 20" barrels loosing the least amount of potential in the absence of longer barrels like 24" inches.
- That coupled with being a short action and standard bolt face makes an easy alternative for a huge number of actions and magazines including the AR10.
- This cartridge can be included a decent brush hunting round where the 338, 30 and smaller faster calibers will face huge deflection.
- With the right twist will deliver 310-320gr cast boolits what will put some substantial energy and can be very quiet with supressor like any subsonic round.
Look at my previous posts and run the math with power factors and hits ranking, some I posted.
The ones who use it never give it up. It is a true hunters cartridge that puts huge deep holes including in the largest game one will find. It is an extra insurance policy.
I hope this helps understanding the 358 winchester a bit better .
