I want to want a Smith & Wesson

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WrongHanded

WrongHanded

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Some 10 years ago my first handgun was a Smith & Wesson Model 15 from around 1987, chambered in .38 Special. At the time I thought it was just some old revolver. Now I know what a beautiful example it was and how smoothly it functioned. But at the time, I had no experience with other guns, save for a Springfield XD 40 that was owned by a friend, and (sometimes working) Colt Python owned by another. My Model 15 was simply, a revolver. And it got traded off, as many other guns have since then.

I've owned other Smiths since then. A 9mm Sigma with a horrendous trigger, and that one quickly found other hands. An unremarkable aluminum alloy snubbie J frame in .38 +p was mine for a time, then it too was sold. I later found out that the frame had cracked at some point, either whilst I owned it or just afterwards. I believe it was quickly retired. Lastly I was taken with a lightly used 686+ with a 6" barrel (my first .357). A nice enough gun, but the timing was off to the point the cylinder wouldn't lock before the hammer fell. S&W took it back to address the issue and did so, but I never totally trusted it after that.

Then I decided to give those "ugly looking" Rugers a try, and have owned no other brand of wheel guns since. But I still can't seem to let go of those memories I have of the old Model 15, and wonder if I could find another S&W revolver - hopefully in a 4" .357 - that would feel as smooth as that gun felt, and fill that little hole that it left when I traded it away.

But every time I say to myself "Maybe a Smith this time...." I can't help but think about the internal locks (which I despise), the potential of the ejector rod loosening (which I dealt with more than once), the timing issue I had on the 686+, brass getting caught under the star (which only ever happened to me on Smiths), and the cracked alloy J frame. And it totally turns me off the idea.

I'd love to have a solid, reliable, and smooth service size 6 shot S&W revolver, that can take a steady diet of full house .357 mag loads. But I have trouble believing I can get that. Please convince me. Tell me about that one you have which has been dependable over the years, and a joy to shoot. I want to want a Smith and Wesson.
 
If you go to any kind of competition around here, where there might be a revolver class, those shooting in those classes will be shooting S&W. I know, I know, some IDPA revo shooters use Ruger but outside of that it's all S&W.

If you buy a (for example) 686 that is new or late model then add to the gun counter cost several hundred (say $400.00) to have a pistol smith work it over. Chamfer the charge holes, smooth out and lighten the trigger, true the cylinder, face the forcing cone, crown work, ball detents in the crane, cut for moons and whatever else you need or want. Do that and you will have a gun that you will want to take to the grave with you. The internal lock can be addressed if necessary.
 
My Dad and I both have Smith and Wesson Model 28-2 N frame .357 revolvers. I expect they will take a steady diet of full house loads. I have a Model 19-3 that will probably last a long time with 158 grain .357 but I choose not to stress it with 125 grain. My 28-2 was a "service" revolver for a Deputy Sheriff in Wyoming. No internal lock. No frame cracks. Brass under the star is operator induced and can be prevented with proper ejection technique. See Mas Ayoob video. Edited to add: Mine was bought for $500 and no gunsmithing was necessary for proper functioning.
 
I solved the internal lock problem by purchasing a pre lock 686-5 with a 2.5 inch barrel and 7 shot cylinder. It had the same issue you had, hammer would sometimes fall before being in lock up. I sent it to Smith and am now confident in it. Wish I'd have paid them to give it the combat package (trigger job, chamfered charge holes, etc) while they had it.

I've had to send in Ruger revolvers as well, so I have no more or less confidence in them over a Smith and Wesson. Sometimes they need a trip back to the mothership to get it right.
 
My first "carry" gun was a Model 15 when I was in the Air Force. The one I like the most is a 3" K frame. If you want one that will hold up to a lot of .357 shooting I would seek out a Model 27 or 28. The N frames are very stout, and there is no lock. For something trimmer and lighter, find another Model 15, or a 19, 66 or other K frame when you have the funds. You might really get hooked. :D
 
Kimber K6S I was skeptical but now I am a believer. Awesome trigger,great accuracy,lotsa of sight choices.Was considering the Smith 640 pro,one more shot with the K6,no trigger job needed.:thumbup::thumbup:
 
I'm really loving my 4" 686.

My 686 is a particularly nice example, but even an "average" broken in model will have a great balance of longevity, handling, and accuracy.

My 4" 19-3 is probably my all time favorite gun, barr none but I have some concerns towards its longevity. My 686 is a bit beefier, but not as big as a N frame.
 
I've owned 2 Ruger Security Six revolvers, great guns but they got sold off for one reason or another. I've also owned S&W M10, M19, M31, M28, M60, M64, M65, M49, M638 and M642 and yes I've sent a couple back to the mother ship for timing issues but if you shoot'em enough they need repair once in a while. I've also owned !911's, Glocks and SIGs that needed repair at time also. Never have had the dreaded cracked frame issue, guess i'm lucky there, but if I do I know S&W will re[lace it for free.
 
Some Smiths work better than others. Being that human beings look for patterns to define problems (among other things), gun owners look for a pattern or formula that will give them a good chance of getting a problem free gun. With S&W it's "Pre Lock," "case hardened hammer and trigger," "pinned barrel," " pre Punta," "five screw," etc.

So why was the great condition 1949 S&W Military and Police .38 revolver I owned not that great? It met ALL the criteria.

Or why is the modern lock era 586 I have now such a great gun? Answer: Some Smiths are better than others. When I had old motorcycles I learned that you keep buying them till you find some you like, then don't sell them. Not as long as you're into motorcycles, anyway.

If the OP wants to stay away from problems, he may stick to .38 Special if he likes the K Frame feel of a model 15. K frames aren't thought to handle hot .357 loads indefinitely, and if he's buying a used gun, who knows what's been through it.
 
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I have a Smith Model 15-3 that resides in a desk drawer in the living room. I take it out and shoot it once in a while. It’s smooth, accurate, and of course dependable. I almost always take it along when I’m going shooting with friends because everyone I’ve let shoot it, loves it.

I also have a dandy little Model 63 that’s been on my hip on every fishing trip I’ve ever went on in probably the last 40 years. It’s dispatched everything from cans (when the fish aren’t biting) to rattlesnakes, to jack rabbits, to blue grouse.

WrongHanded said:
Tell me about that one you have which has been dependable over the years, and a joy to shoot.
Click to expand...

I don’t know how my telling you about how much I love my Smiths helps – Smith doesn’t make ones like mine anymore, and I’m not about to sell either of them.:D

Seriously though – my EDC gun is a Smith 637-2. I keep telling myself that I should switch to one of those new-fangled semi-autos, and I’ve actually bought and re-sold a few of them. But after brief flings with this little 9mm, or that little 9mm, I always come back to my Smith .38 snubby. I'm used to it, it goes bang every time I pull the trigger, and though I'm not real good with it, I'm okay - I'm at least as good with it as I am with any small, easily concealable, DAO 9mm I've ever tried to like.:)

Edited to include the Smith Model 10 M&P I keep around for nostalgia. It works great too, but that's not why I have it. The Navy used to issue Model 10s to us when I was going through helicopter aircrew school in 1969, so I bought one of my own 10 or 12 years back. I even have a shoulder holster for it that's almost identical to the one I wore way back then.:)
 
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WrongHanded said:
I'd love to have a solid, reliable, and smooth service size 6 shot S&W revolver, that can take a steady diet of full house .357 mag loads. But I have trouble believing I can get that. Please convince me. Tell me about that one you have which has been dependable over the years, and a joy to shoot. I want to want a Smith and Wesson.
Click to expand...

Howdy

When you say 'service size' I assume you are referring to a K frame, such as your late lamented Model 15.

I bought my Model 19-3 brand-spanky new in 1975. But it has mostly seen a diet of 38 Specials, not 'full house 357 mag loads'. Call me cautious, that is what it has seen over the years.

Model_19-2_zpsdc8c8de7.jpg




The second 357 Mag revolver I bought was this Model 65-3 that I got used about ten years ago for a very good price. But it too has mostly seen 38 Specials, not 357 Mag loads.

model%2065-3%2001_zpsyyoetw70.jpg




Just a couple of years ago I came across this Model 13-2. Again, mostly 38 Specials.

model%2013-2%2001_zpsslse63t5.jpg




For full house 357 Mag loads, I prefer a Model 28. I actually have two Model 28-2s, another one just like this one. I prefer the way the N frame eats up recoil of a standard 357 Mag round.

Model%2028_01_zpszm3omzpa.jpg




Another 28-2 with a four inch barrel. I really like shooting this one.

Model%2028-2%2001_zpsyxvgth0g.jpg




L frame? Not so much. I bought this Model 686-6 a couple of years ago, pretty much as a lark because I did not have any L frame Smiths. First brand-spanky new S&W I have bought in the 40 or so years since I bought my Model 19-3. It's OK, but I'm really not impressed with the quality. I doubt I will be buying any more brand new S&W revolvers.

model%20686-6%20grip%2002_zpshxallncm.jpg




I don't have a big problem with the locks, I have a problem with the current lack of quality.

I have no problem finding nice used Smiths from the 1970s,1980s and 1990s. I will buy one of them any day of the week over what S&W is producing today.

P.S. Regarding the thing about the extractor rod unscrewing: I have dozens of Smiths. Can't recall the last time that happened. If it does, it is simple to turn the rod to free up the cylinder.
 
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Driftwood Johnson said:
Howdy

When you say 'service size' I assume you are referring to a K frame, such as your late lamented Model 15.

I bought my Model 19-3 brand-spanky new in 1975. But it has mostly seen a diet of 38 Specials, not 'full house 357 mag loads'. Call me cautious, that is what it has seen over the years.

View attachment 759593




The second 357 Mag revolver I bought was this Model 65-3 that I got used about ten years ago for a very good price. But it too has mostly seen 38 Specials, not 357 Mag loads.

View attachment 759594




Just a couple of years ago I came across this Model 13-2. Again, mostly 38 Specials.

View attachment 759595




For full house 357 Mag loads, I prefer a Model 28. I actually have two Model 28-2s, another one just like this one. I prefer the way the N frame eats up recoil of a standard 357 Mag round.

View attachment 759596




Another 28-2 with a four inch barrel. I really like shooting this one.

View attachment 759597




L frame? Not so much. I bought this Model 686-6 a couple of years ago, pretty much as a lark because I did not have any L frame Smiths. First brand-spanky new S&W I have bought in the 40 or so years since I bought my Model 19-3. It's OK, but I'm really not impressed with the quality. I doubt I will be buying any more brand new S&W revolvers.

View attachment 759598




I don't have a big problem with the locks, I have a problem with the current lack of quality.

I have no problem finding nice used Smiths from the 1970s,1980s and 1990s. I will buy one of them any day of the week over what S&W is producing today.
Click to expand...

That's a very nice collection!

By "service size" I meant K or L frame, and a 4" barrel. That may not be exactly what "service size" means, but it's what I think of. Sorry for any confusion.
 
I guess what it comes down to is I've just had some really bad luck with S&Ws since that first Model 15. The truth is, I really like the feel of the K and L frames in comparison to say a GP100, and do want to get another. But I'm slightly concerned about quality of the new guns and I really dislike that lock (mostly but not solely on principle). So maybe I'll have to keep my eyes on the local in-store used market, and very carefully look over anything I want to buy.
 
Keep looking for good used ones... they're out there if you keep your eyes peeled. Over the past three years I have stumbled upon some great buys, including an M-13 3" .357 with hardly a turn-ring on the cylinder, a K-22 6-inch that was owned by an elderly target shooter as a practice gun (The double action is SMOOOOTH!), and a nickel M-49 Bodyguard that has fired maybe 15-20 rounds since it was first bought.

While I own more Ruger firearms than any other brand, in my eyes there is nothing like a S&W revolver.
 
If you keep hounding Gunbroker something will turn up eventually.

In the past year I've scored a 686-0 for $650 and a 64-5 for under $300. Both had phenomial triggers for a S&W breaking somewhere in the mid 9lbs range.
 
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Ain't nothing wrong with the new 686's. I bought a 7 inch 7 shooter about 3 years ago. My buddy did a kitchen table trigger job that is nothing short of amazing. I have put 3500+ rounds thru it and haven't even bothered to clean it. It is one of my favorite range guns.
 
Would have to say after owning countless S&W revolvers over the years, my "Goldilocks" gun (as in this one is just right), would have to be my Model 686-No Dash with it's 4" barrel. When I had to thin the herd many years ago (to pay for school), I kept the Model 686 over a Ruger GP100 (no great love lost there), and a very fine shooting Colt Trooper Mk.V (believe me it was that close).

Extremely well made, best DA/SA trigger right out of the box I have ever encountered, and has the perfect combination of size and balance for a .357 Magnum.

Fv9irZd.jpg
 
remember, if you buy new there's always the factory warranty.

One member on here recently had to return one and as a courtesy, they performed a Performance Center action job on it. They've got great customer service.

The "lock" is a whole other issue. I personally would rather not have it, but it's not an issue. Mostly just cosmetic for me. It can be disabled and hidden if you're so inclined.

Edited to add: Bannockburn, I'm still keeping an eye out for one of those older S&W knifes.
 
My first big revolver was Smith and Wesson 686. It was a factory trade in from police department. I don't know which because it wasn't marked on the gun. I got it for two hundred and fifty dollars. Even in the early two thousands that was prolly a steal. I wanted a forty five so I sold it to a friend for what I had in it. Made him promise to sell it back to me if he sold it. Guess what happened. He sold it to someone else. I wish I had it back all the time.
 
OP I know how you feel. I recently looked at a new 8 shot 627 . IF I could get past that idiot lock, the ugly redesign of the frame around the hammer that it caused and the stupid flag alongside the hammer - and I cannot get past those things - there would still be all the other deficiencies of a current production "s&w" revolver.

The ugly MIM trigger with the trough in the back. The poorly finished crown on the barrel with visible burrs. The gritty stacking trigger - "Performance Center" my butt! - the misaligned barrel. The uneven poor finish. The tool marks around the forcing cone. The exhorbitant price tag for whatvyou are getting.

I too purchased a Kimber K6 instead. And I am well pleased!! :) Nice finish, GREAT trigger, well done crown on the barrel, nice polished stainless finish and it cost me less out the door than what that alleged Performance Center Smith would have cost.

I could care less what becomes of the current company posing as s&w. They have not made a gun I would purchase in over a decade. They no longer honor their socalled "lifetime warranty" on their 3rd gen semi autos. So I have no use for them any longer.

I do hope Kimber will produce a 4 inch K-frame sized 357. If they do it as nice as they have done the K6 it will be a peach!! :)
 
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