shotguns for home defense pros & cons

bushman _iohn What do you suggest instead?

Kevinq6 said:

I keep my shotgun chambered with 3in buckshot with the safety on. I don't want to rack it if someone breaks in, I want to keep the element of surprise, and to kill them immediately. If I lived in a safer area or had kids I might not chamber it.

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I read talk of cruiser ready condition to make the shotgun drop safe. Curious how many store their shotgun in that condition and why one way over the other.

bushman_john said:

How do you all recommend dealing w the loud blast noise inside the confines of one's home? Silencer? Earmuffs? Seems kinda moronic to be able to defend oneself from intruder, andd lose one's hearing in the process...

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if you rather lose your life instead, you can stop the fight and go look for ear pro. it would probably be more weird, or get old fast walking around everyday with a set of comtac 2's on your head, waiting for the day that may never come.

bushman_john said:

How do you all recommend dealing w the loud blast noise inside the confines of one's home? Silencer? Earmuffs? Seems kinda moronic to be able to defend oneself from intruder, andd lose one's hearing in the process...

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Suppressors are available for shotguns but that quickly negates the cost advantage and gives you a significantly longer weapon. Buy a pair of electronic ear muffs and keep them by the gun. It just takes a moment to put them on. If you don't have time to put them on, then go for the gun first and just deal with the hearing loss. It's is not the end of the world (even though it does suck).

This is advice I'd give for any home defense firearm kept ready but not on you. Even if you're using a rifle or pistol, I'd recommend having ear pro near by. Obviously when we carry concealed, most of us don't have ear pro and that's just a risk that we take. But if you're already stashing a gun, having the option of ear pro is never a bad way to go.

Practice clearing (unloaded dry run)your house with everything available to you - pistol, rifle/carbine, shotgun - and see which is easiest to handle and most efficient. Do it at night with a light and wear ear pro so you know what it's like to lose some of that sense. That's the gun you want for home defense. For me that's a pistol with a handheld flashlight, with an SBR running a close second. If you have the chance to shoot on a range that has any obstacles, windows, doors, etc, try out your home defense guns there. Even if its going through a door and getting your gun up - that says a lot about efficiency.

If you can't efficiently move through your home with a long gun, it's not a great choice. It would be fine if you plan to call the police and stay hunkered down, but if your living situation requires you to check things out yourself, be sure you've got the best tool for the task.

If you live rural like some of us, going outside to take care of animals and get rid of predators, the pistol is then my last choice and the shotgun is very useful for the short ranges near buildings. If there's an unwanted human presence in my yard or driveway at night, I call the sheriff and stay inside. I'm not getting shot to death in my own yard when I pay taxes for someone else to take that risk.

bushman_john said:

How do you all recommend dealing w the loud blast noise inside the confines of one's home? Silencer? Earmuffs? Seems kinda moronic to be able to defend oneself from intruder, andd lose one's hearing in the process...

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A set of electronic hearing pro on the nightstand. It will improve your hearing while protecting it. If you don't get a chance to throw it on, so be it. A shotgun with an 18" barrel probably won't be as loud at the ear as a handgun.

To get past the usual cliches, it is a good idea to take some significant training with various firearms to see what works best for you in a defensive situation.

A good handgun, carbine or shotgun works in the hands of a well-trained person. Of course, all of them have worked in the hands of novices. However, if you asked for a reasoned choice - you need to try them all.

For example, when we see someone say (as several did) it is difficult to miss at close range (with the caveat if you know what you are doing), I suspect shotgun naivete. When we get the good ol' racking for intimidation, it is naive.

A well trained person with a Glock 17, a pump 870/1300 etc, or an 223 carbine is ahead of the game of someone just looking for a gun selection answer without training.

To cut to the chase, since I've trained with all - my first go to gun is a Glock (could be any quality semi - not starting a Glock fanboy club argument) - handguns are easy to handle in the home dealing with myriad items and people. The safe room artillery, so to speak, is an AR. Easy to shoot, lots of ammo. If a bear gets into the house (kidding, where I live) or if I were in the country outside in a hunting paradigm (depending on creature) - then a pump gun with slugs. However, if circumstances just left me with the shotgun, I can run it.

BTW, I keep a pair of electronic muffs by home first use handgun. Should I put on pants or muffs? That's for another thread.

If they were side by side on a table and something bad is about to happen, the shotgun is staying on the table and the AR15 is coming with me. The shotgun is all yours.

Creature said:

If they were side by side on a table and something bad is about to happen, the shotgun is staying on the table and the AR15 is coming with me. The shotgun is all yours.

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Thank you kindly, for the shotgun would be my first choice. I can run either one, but I reason that short-range problems are the norm. There is something I find very reassuring about a shotgun if the "something bad" is about to happen near me. If, instead, it is happening a block away, perhaps I should hide behind something.

https://www.defensiveshotgunwny.com/shotgun-resources-defensive-shotgun

This was a really good eval and example of how any weapon should be looked for a given role at be it handgun, carbine, or shotgun.

They all have strengths and weaknesses. Their is no right or wrong answer, it all comes down to how much weight/priority you give to each criteria.

So, if portability and being able to use it single-handed are a priority to you, you would choose a handgun and downplay/put up with its lack of power relative to shotgun/carbine. (I chose an AR for HD, but mitigated the portability issue with a 2pt sling, SBR'd it, and training) If capacity matters a lot to you, you won't be getting a shotgun or a revolver!

Develop list of pros and cons, weight each criteria according to your personal situation, then take steps to minimize the weaknesses of your chosen platform via a combo of accessories and training.

tkroenlein said:

Home defense choice of last resort. They're plenty effective. But, the blast is so severe in a confined space that I'd question my own ability to follow up in an appropriate amount of time.

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Ever fire a shotgun indoors? Either open a window, or put in some ear plugs.

Kendal Black said:

There is something I find very reassuring about a shotgun if the "something bad" is about to happen near me.

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And what precisely would that be?

Kendal Black said:

There is something I find very reassuring about a shotgun if the "something bad" is about to happen near me.

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Creature said:

And what precisely would that be?

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To expand on what I said previously,

Within its range limitations, the shotgun has twice the hit probability of the weapon you took instead. (Source: JSSAP)

It's a good 'stopper.'

It's intimidating.

Actually the hit probability advantage may be more than 2:1, since the gummint fellows estimated that figure in comparison against select-fire rifles. The evaluation appears to be based on heat of combat, fog of war, rough and tumble conditions, people ducking and running around and shooting both ways. That is why the disparity seems at first bigger than it should, based on what you can do with either weapon on a target range.

While the various supposed measures of 'stopping power' may, all of them, be assailed for problems of methodology or data or both, something interesting happens when you look at them in the aggregate. All of them have the 12 gauge somewhere right up near the tippy-top.

The shotgun has a fearsome reputation that may even exceed its capabilities, but reputation is what is important in scare factor.

Kendal Black said:

Within its range limitations, the shotgun has twice the hit probability of the weapon you took instead. (Source: JSSAP)

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I noticed that you have a penchant for citing the JSSAP in this regard. Please, for the uninitiated, expand upon what the JSSAP uses for their data and how they came to their conclusion regarding shotgun hit probability.

Kendal Black said:

The shotgun has a fearsome reputation that may even exceed its capabilities, but reputation is what is important in scare factor.

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Oh please. This "factor" should never seriously be considered when faced with a serious threat.

Creature said:

I noticed that you have a penchant for citing the JSSAP in this regard. Please, for the uninitiated, expand upon what the JSSAP uses for their data and how they came to their conclusion regarding shotgun hit probability.

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That rather seems to be their job, not mine.

Creature said:

Oh please. This "factor" should never seriously be considered when faced with a serious threat.

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I get what you are saying, but there is a place to consider any "factor" that may bear upon the outcome. I am not a cop, but more than one cop has spoken of the calming influence on a tense situation of fishing out the riot gun and showing one's self not only armed but well armed. (See Sun Tzu on subduing the enemy without fighting.) Of course, I suppose that could also escalate a situation instead, but the effect is not zero either way.

Kendal Black said:

but the effect is not zero either way.

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The effect of "show of force" against a determined foe is nil. Relying on that effect will not get you the results you desire.

As for hit probability, have you considered that hit probability can also work against you? Especially in relation to civilian use of 00 Buck and the fact that a civilian is responsible for every projectile (and resultant hits they score) that is sent down range. Care to take a shot against a hostage taker who is standing behind your family member at 10 yards with your shotgun? I wouldn't consider taking that shot with a shotgun loaded with anything other than a slug. But I might if I had an AR15.

MachIVshooter said:

The same is true of a rifle or handgun. Shotguns offer no advantage with respect to aiming at home defense distances. Not even cylinder bore critters with non-flight control loads will have any real spread at across the room or down the hallway range

Shotguns aren't aimed unless they're set up for slugs Shotguns are pointed.


Anyone with a functioning brain is not gonna want to be on the business end of any firearm. Staring down the bore of a 9mm pistol or AR-15 will have the same effect as the larger bore of a "gauge"

True that, but a shotgun, being larger, is easier to comprehend. All bets off with meth heads, however.



Depends entirely on the weapons, game, ranges and other factors. I'd no sooner use a scattergun for elk than I would my .454 Casull for pheasant. Different tools for different jobs, and a good bird or trap gun is less than ideal for HD. Likewise, you're gonna have one heck of a time effectively busting clays or bringing down game birds with an 18" cylinder bore or improved shotgun.

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Generality. You can swap barrels on a pump gun for different activities. Successfully hunting with a defensive handgun takes a great deal of skill. Don't try bringing down an elk or boar with a snub .38 or PPK

OP

Please also make sure to let us know what you got

I'm in the yes camp. I know a 12 gauge inside would be deafening. But I'm not likely to miss and it will end the fight. Not sure if I would grab my beretta first or the 12 gauge. Might even get a handful of the fn 5.7. But I don't think the shotgun can be ruled out. Especially cause you can get a basic pumper cheap.

Like I said, you can miss with a shotgun even close up. Go to a shotgun oriented course or match before you opine that they are so much more like to hit. I'd like to see those actual figures.

I like the point of the shotgun hostage shot. Have the shotgun fans tried that with something other than slugs at various distances. It's a touch of a challenge. I've done it in class and matches. You might also note that the wad goes off in various directions and close up will give your loved one quite a whack.

If you only face opponents and no others in the direction of the gun, not a problem. In your house and neighborhood, expanding shot is a problem at distance. If close up, then pattern it - it doesn't fill the room - that's horsepoop.

Another fun nuance is recoil. You may be an expert shotgunner in sports or the range. In extremis, it might not be that much fun. I know a friend who didn't get a good shouldering of the gun making a tight shot around a barricade and dislocated his clavicle. Ouch!

Also, intimidation - TV horsecrap also. Police might face a nut in the street and make a show of force against someone who is acting out. In your house, you don't want to be making a show of it. If you want to challenge the person, you'd better be behind some kind of cover. Standing there and posing - you get shot down. If you are behind cover:

"Yoohoo - I have a shotgun, Go away, you bad man". Silly now. Best to say: I have a gun, the police are called.

A shotgun is a fine weapon to fight with, if you know its pros and cons. It's not a COS play accouterment.

I read a piece where a gun writer says: Well, if you have to use the phone and cover the bad guy, tuck the shotgun under your arm or carry it forward of the trigger guard to balance it.

Critique that plan, class. That does go for other long arms also.

A Brown Bess musket could be used successfully. You could escape in the cloud of smoke, like a ninja.

GEM said:

Like I said, you can miss with a shotgun even close up. Go to a shotgun oriented course or match before you opine that they are so much more like to hit. I'd like to see those actual figures.

I like the point of the shotgun hostage shot. Have the shotgun fans tried that with something other than slugs at various distances. It's a touch of a challenge. I've done it in class and matches. You might also note that the wad goes off in various directions and close up will give your loved one quite a whack.

If you only face opponents and no others in the direction of the gun, not a problem. In your house and neighborhood, expanding shot is a problem at distance. If close up, then pattern it - it doesn't fill the room - that's horsepoop.

Another fun nuance is recoil. You may be an expert shotgunner in sports or the range. In extremis, it might not be that much fun. I know a friend who didn't get a good shouldering of the gun making a tight shot around a barricade and dislocated his clavicle. Ouch!

Also, intimidation - TV horsecrap also. Police might face a nut in the street and make a show of force against someone who is acting out. In your house, you don't want to be making a show of it. If you want to challenge the person, you'd better be behind some kind of cover. Standing there and posing - you get shot down. If you are behind cover:

"Yoohoo - I have a shotgun, Go away, you bad man". Silly now. Best to say: I have a gun, the police are called.

A shotgun is a fine weapon to fight with, if you know its pros and cons. It's not a COS play accouterment.

I read a piece where a gun writer says: Well, if you have to use the phone and cover the bad guy, tuck the shotgun under your arm or carry it forward of the trigger guard to balance it.

Critique that plan, class. That does go for other long arms also.

A Brown Bess musket could be used successfully. You could escape in the cloud of smoke, like a ninja.

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Good point. For hostage shots Federal Flight Control #1 buck would be excellent for a head/hostage shot I think. Inside a house, the pattern would basically be 1 to 1.5in but the backstop would be much safer.

Now that said, if you had an AR already chambered I suppose the advantage would go to the AR there. I'm just pointing out a good load if you did choose a shotgun.

MachIVshooter said:

Shotguns aren't aimed unless they're set up for slugs Shotguns are pointed.

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I am very glad that this gem was edited out of that post.