Assuming that you are a decent marksman and you own decent factory rifles and you handload (all of which I fancy myself), where does the dramatic difference in cost show up with a custom (as in accuracy or “bling”) rifle? 300 yards? 500 yards? 700 yards (etc)? I own factory stuff that are legitimate 1/2” to 3/4” rifles, fit/ finish is excellent. As a gun guy, I always want a new toy and have always wanted a true custom; I am retired so I have plenty of time to play with it and at my older age, I have the funds to purchase a nice package. I just cannot get my mind right to spend that kind of money for (what I perceive as) a very small incremental difference - grandiose diminishing returns. Do these custom builds have that much more accuracy or does it still simply boil down to the skill of the shooter. Is it just holding, caressing and shooting that level of quality - the wow factor? I am torn and I am drawn to a purchase but I just cannot get there - looking for experienced wisdom. Thanks. Ps, the amount of component and builder choice is overwhelming - ridiculously confusing (at least to me).
Custom Rifles
- Thread starter Steve S.
- Start date
- Status
The custom market, to me represents a few things
First, undeniable quality control and craftsmanship. A good Smith, with top shelf components can put together a rifle that is “built” versus assembled so the small details of quality and aesthetics are perfect
Second, you can get the rifle built to the exact specifications you desire, including selecting the bullet you want to use
Third, you can get features that you want and only what you want
Fourth, top shelf barrels, actions, stocks and triggers that will be consistently reliable during hard use and adverse conditions, professionally bedded stocks or chassis using barrels chambered “perfectly” with no rough spots and a Cnc machined chamber for perfect headspace, and a hand lapped, cut rifled barrel make for accuracy and precision over hundreds of rounds without a need for break in routine cleaning
If you have a factory rifle(s) that shoot 1/2 moa groups consistently (10 shot groups or 5, 5 shot groups) you are lucky and a skilled marksman, many do not get factory guns to do that with any consistency
With custom rifles, this level of accuracy is to be expected
First, undeniable quality control and craftsmanship. A good Smith, with top shelf components can put together a rifle that is “built” versus assembled so the small details of quality and aesthetics are perfect
Second, you can get the rifle built to the exact specifications you desire, including selecting the bullet you want to use
Third, you can get features that you want and only what you want
Fourth, top shelf barrels, actions, stocks and triggers that will be consistently reliable during hard use and adverse conditions, professionally bedded stocks or chassis using barrels chambered “perfectly” with no rough spots and a Cnc machined chamber for perfect headspace, and a hand lapped, cut rifled barrel make for accuracy and precision over hundreds of rounds without a need for break in routine cleaning
If you have a factory rifle(s) that shoot 1/2 moa groups consistently (10 shot groups or 5, 5 shot groups) you are lucky and a skilled marksman, many do not get factory guns to do that with any consistency
With custom rifles, this level of accuracy is to be expected
someguy2800
Member
The accuracy on a lot of factory rifles is simply amazing these days. I've never had a custom rifle built for me but I've built some of my own by changing barrels and cutting and glass and pillar bedding stocks. The benefit to me is getting a rifle that fits you the way you like in length of pull and comb height and getting unusual chambering or twist rates or having chambers cut to fit exactly what you want to load, a barrel in the weight and length you want, and a trigger with the action you want. The most accurate rifles I've ever shot were good barrels like CBI and shilen, but the margin between them and what you can get in some factory rifles is pretty slim. Its entirely possible you could have a $2000 rifle built that will be outshot by a tikka t3, though that's not necessarily the norm. My dad's factory savage barrel shot every bit as good as my $350 CBI barrel. My $100 AR15 barrel shoots every bit as good and with worse ammo as my other $300 AR15 barrel. Many people say their custom barrels stay cleaner and are easier to clean but I guess that hasn't been my experience with the few custom barrels I've owned. However I've never had a high end barrel that shot really bad, but I have had factory barrels that shot anywhere from terrible to great.
Two quick examples of getting what you want. I had a barrel made for my contender with a custom length throat specifically for the bullet I wanted to shoot. I told them exactly what I wanted and they made it. When I put a barrel on a savage I head space the barrel to my brass sized in my dies so that when I size a piece of fired brass it sets the shoulder back .001" with no die adjustment. You don't get that kind of thing from factory rifles, but if that kind of thing isn't important to you then perhaps you don't need a custom rifle.
Two quick examples of getting what you want. I had a barrel made for my contender with a custom length throat specifically for the bullet I wanted to shoot. I told them exactly what I wanted and they made it. When I put a barrel on a savage I head space the barrel to my brass sized in my dies so that when I size a piece of fired brass it sets the shoulder back .001" with no die adjustment. You don't get that kind of thing from factory rifles, but if that kind of thing isn't important to you then perhaps you don't need a custom rifle.
Kendal Black
Member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2011
- Messages
- 1,647
I have been wondering where the point of diminishing returns kicks in. I've owned rifles from Winchester, Remington, Howa, Savage and Ruger. Of those, the Howa impressed me most, for it shot at least as well as the rest and cost the least. Ah, so.
I am thinking of getting a custom rifle built, but the reason is I want something that is not in the catalogs. I want a .243 no heavier nor any longer than an M1 Carbine, AI magazines (the .308's should work) and capable of a minute of angle. 1 MOA is much better than I can hold unless I have a bench and bags, but it's the benchmark for "really shoots good."
I may never care enough about my vision of the ideal rifle to have it implemented, but I can't see why anyone would fool with commissioning a custom job unless you can't get the parameters you want in a gun that comes off the rack. What I have already is better than I can shoot, if we factor in field conditions and dang it, left my bench rest at home.
I am thinking of getting a custom rifle built, but the reason is I want something that is not in the catalogs. I want a .243 no heavier nor any longer than an M1 Carbine, AI magazines (the .308's should work) and capable of a minute of angle. 1 MOA is much better than I can hold unless I have a bench and bags, but it's the benchmark for "really shoots good."
I may never care enough about my vision of the ideal rifle to have it implemented, but I can't see why anyone would fool with commissioning a custom job unless you can't get the parameters you want in a gun that comes off the rack. What I have already is better than I can shoot, if we factor in field conditions and dang it, left my bench rest at home.
.308 Norma
Member
Using my one and only custom rifle, my .308 Norma Magnum, I can put 3 shots in under an inch at 100 yards. "So what?" you might ask. "I can do that with my off the shelf Model 70, or old Ruger 77." you might say. Well guess what - so can I.
Before I had my .308 Norma, I was shooting an off the shelf Winchester 70, 300 Win Mag that I could put 3 shots in under an inch at 100 with. And before that, I was using a regular Ruger 77, 30-06, that with judicious handloading, I could (still can) put 3 shots in under an inch at 100 with.
What I'm trying to get at is this: I don't know if custom builds have that much more accuracy, or if it boils down to the skill of the shooter. And I really don't care - three shots in an inch at 100 is plenty good enough for my big game rifles. I didn't order my custom .308 Norma Magnum because I was looking for a more accurate rifle anyway.
Now you're talking Steve.
I've told this story so many times some people here on THR might be tired of hearing it. But here it goes again: When I was 16, I had a girlfriend whose dad had a custom .308 Norma Magnum. That was back in the days when the magnum big game rifle craze was in full swing, and a lot of hunters were having their 30-06s and such turned into .308 Norma Magnums. At any rate, as a rifle crazy, 16 year old kid, I loved my girlfriend's dad's rifle (I even got to shoot it once) and when that girlfriend broke up with me, it broke my heart because I knew I'd never see her dad's rifle again.So, a year before I retired in 2010, with my wife's full approval and understanding, I ordered a custom built .308 Norma Magnum from Montana Rifle Company. I paid for it with my first two Social Security payments.
BTW, my lovely wife and I have been married for 47 years now. And before she retired, she had a Model 70, 7mm Rem Mag customized for herself. So I look at it this way: My custom retirement rifle might be my way of trying to reclaim my youth. But my wife had never even fired a gun of any kind before she met me. So her custom retirement rifle might be her way of saying, "If you get one, I get one too."
It really doesn't matter. Like you, my wife and I are retired and have plenty of time to play. And while we are not rich, we have sufficient funds to buy the guns we want. Fortunately, none of the guns we've ever wanted were really high dollar guns. Like I said, my first two Social Security payments covered the cost of my custom .308 Norma.
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Prior to the rpr custom rifles were important because you really couldn’t get a box detachable magazine and a decent stock or an EFR or a decent trigger etc on a factory rifle. The handling and balance and was all wrong on most of them. They lacked seemingly obvious features like a decent bolt release. Many had pretty sketchy extractors and ejectors. And of course bolt handles held on with hopes and dreams.
These days it’s more about quality, durability etc. a lot of it is having a stock that’s conducive to the type of shooting you want. Whether it’s benchrest or prs. And things like a smoother action which disrupts your aim less and thus lets you fire a hair faster with less effort. Less effort also means you’re not jerking the bolt around as much which means fewer user induced malfunctions.
The interfaces between parts provide a lot more durability. Longer tenons integral rails bedding etc means if your rifle rolls down a mountain it’s more likely to survive.
These days it’s more about quality, durability etc. a lot of it is having a stock that’s conducive to the type of shooting you want. Whether it’s benchrest or prs. And things like a smoother action which disrupts your aim less and thus lets you fire a hair faster with less effort. Less effort also means you’re not jerking the bolt around as much which means fewer user induced malfunctions.
The interfaces between parts provide a lot more durability. Longer tenons integral rails bedding etc means if your rifle rolls down a mountain it’s more likely to survive.
sage5907
Member
I purchased a Custom rifle many years ago built by a gunsmith named Paul Jaeger and even today it is a magnificent rifle. It doesn't group any better than my other rifles all of which are top of the line. I wouldn't recommend building a true custom rifle because you probably already own rifles that you can shoot better than one you have custom built. I doubt if you can have a custom rifle built that will ever be your favorite rifle. That has been my experience. You may say it is but when you go hunting you will take a rifle that has been effective for you. Today's custom rifles are really "component" rifles. You can select the barrel from many good barrel makers, you can select the cartridge, you can select the stock, you can select the type of magazine box, and you can select the scope and sling. Any quality rifle built in the past 60 years can be upgraded into a semi-custom rifle just by a change or two. Changing the stock, changing the barrel, etc. The barrel is the heart of a rifle and every accurate rifle must start with a good barrel. The bullets, powders and online knowledge from others can change a good rifle into an excellent rifle, even for long range shooting.
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In the past 10 years, the ACCURACY attainable with a $400 rifle has risen phenomenally.
However- the QUALITY and the DURABILITY also enter into the picture.
I am, coincidentally, working with two Remingtons that overlapped.
A semi-custom 700SPS build, and a stock 783.
Both 16.5 factory heavy barrels, free floated.
Both synthetic stocks.
Both shooting exact same five loads with varying bullet weights, same state range, concrete shooting tables, black bulls, 100 yards, same rest system.
700SPS build uses a McMillan fiberglass stock, pillar & glass bedded, three steel sling points, Pachmayer pad.
783 uses an injection molded stock, pillar bedded, molded trigger guard & sling points, SuperCell pad.
700SPS fitted with 3-pound Timney trigger.
783 uses factory trigger, adjustable, very clean, 4.5 pounds as shipped.
700SPS internal mag, hinged floorplate.
783 flush-fit detach steel mag.
No sights either rifle.
700SPS uses their standard pushfeed action, with standard extractor. Not all that strong extraction.
783 uses different pushfeed action, M-16 style extractor. Stronger extraction.
Both same safety, two position.
700SPS bolt release inside triggerguard.
783 bolt release up on leftside receiver, opposite safety.
700SPS fit with Warne steel Maxima QD rings on steel two-piece bases.
783 fit with a one-piece alloy Pic rail at the factory.
700SPS mounted with Trijicon 3-9x40 AccuPoint fiber-optic/tritium illuminated reticle.
783 mounted with Primary Arms 4-16x44 electrically-illuminated reticle.
700SPS standard checkered bolt handle.
783 big smooth bulb bolt handle.
Both gun fired with scopes on lowest settings.
700SPS build roughly $2000.
783 out of box, roughly $400, add $150 for the glass.
Range results?
700 outshot the 783 in four out of five loads, for best 3-shot groups.
Difference in best-group 100-yard spreads, in my hands, was maybe half an inch on average, between the two guns.
Was the cheaper package THAT inferior?
Was the more expensive package THAT much better?
Will the plastic 783 stock be as strong in banging around as the McMillan fiberglass stock used by the Marine Corps on their M40 sniper rifles?
Does it need to be?
Will the 783's trigger hold up like the Timney trigger will?
Does it have to?
Are the steel sling studs stronger on the McMillan stock?
Is the alloy triggerguard stronger on the 700SPS than the plastic triggerguard on the 783?
Are the Warne steel mounts on the 700SPS stronger than the alloy rings and alloy rail on the 783?
Which mounting system will hold up better if the rifle gets dropped down a mountainside?
Does it matter?
Both scopes may do fine at 100 yards, but will the $150 Primary Arms glass show the same picture quality at 400 yards as the $800 Trijicon glass?
Does it need to?
Are there any electronics to die suddenly in the Trijicon scope?
Are there any in the Primary Arms?
Does it matter?
These are some of the differences between two examples I happen to have here.
The 700SPS was built to my specs & preferences, with me selecting specific components of the build and working through it with my gunsmith to get exactly what I wanted.
The 783 came as it came.
Could I live with it?
Sure.
Would I prefer the 700SPS?
You betcha. That's MY gun.
It was put together specifically for me.
I used components I KNOW will hold up over the long run, because the gun was not built to a price point.
It wasn't built to be cheap, it was built to be GOOD!
Not that the 783 isn't necessarily good.....
You have to decide whether the expense of a custom project is worth it.
Nobody can make that decision for you.
Denis
However- the QUALITY and the DURABILITY also enter into the picture.
I am, coincidentally, working with two Remingtons that overlapped.
A semi-custom 700SPS build, and a stock 783.
Both 16.5 factory heavy barrels, free floated.
Both synthetic stocks.
Both shooting exact same five loads with varying bullet weights, same state range, concrete shooting tables, black bulls, 100 yards, same rest system.
700SPS build uses a McMillan fiberglass stock, pillar & glass bedded, three steel sling points, Pachmayer pad.
783 uses an injection molded stock, pillar bedded, molded trigger guard & sling points, SuperCell pad.
700SPS fitted with 3-pound Timney trigger.
783 uses factory trigger, adjustable, very clean, 4.5 pounds as shipped.
700SPS internal mag, hinged floorplate.
783 flush-fit detach steel mag.
No sights either rifle.
700SPS uses their standard pushfeed action, with standard extractor. Not all that strong extraction.
783 uses different pushfeed action, M-16 style extractor. Stronger extraction.
Both same safety, two position.
700SPS bolt release inside triggerguard.
783 bolt release up on leftside receiver, opposite safety.
700SPS fit with Warne steel Maxima QD rings on steel two-piece bases.
783 fit with a one-piece alloy Pic rail at the factory.
700SPS mounted with Trijicon 3-9x40 AccuPoint fiber-optic/tritium illuminated reticle.
783 mounted with Primary Arms 4-16x44 electrically-illuminated reticle.
700SPS standard checkered bolt handle.
783 big smooth bulb bolt handle.
Both gun fired with scopes on lowest settings.
700SPS build roughly $2000.
783 out of box, roughly $400, add $150 for the glass.
Range results?
700 outshot the 783 in four out of five loads, for best 3-shot groups.
Difference in best-group 100-yard spreads, in my hands, was maybe half an inch on average, between the two guns.
Was the cheaper package THAT inferior?
Was the more expensive package THAT much better?
Will the plastic 783 stock be as strong in banging around as the McMillan fiberglass stock used by the Marine Corps on their M40 sniper rifles?
Does it need to be?
Will the 783's trigger hold up like the Timney trigger will?
Does it have to?
Are the steel sling studs stronger on the McMillan stock?
Is the alloy triggerguard stronger on the 700SPS than the plastic triggerguard on the 783?
Are the Warne steel mounts on the 700SPS stronger than the alloy rings and alloy rail on the 783?
Which mounting system will hold up better if the rifle gets dropped down a mountainside?
Does it matter?
Both scopes may do fine at 100 yards, but will the $150 Primary Arms glass show the same picture quality at 400 yards as the $800 Trijicon glass?
Does it need to?
Are there any electronics to die suddenly in the Trijicon scope?
Are there any in the Primary Arms?
Does it matter?
These are some of the differences between two examples I happen to have here.
The 700SPS was built to my specs & preferences, with me selecting specific components of the build and working through it with my gunsmith to get exactly what I wanted.
The 783 came as it came.
Could I live with it?
Sure.
Would I prefer the 700SPS?
You betcha. That's MY gun.
It was put together specifically for me.
I used components I KNOW will hold up over the long run, because the gun was not built to a price point.
It wasn't built to be cheap, it was built to be GOOD!
Not that the 783 isn't necessarily good.....
You have to decide whether the expense of a custom project is worth it.
Nobody can make that decision for you.
Denis
.308 Norma
Member
Sorry sage5907, but my custom .308 Norma Mag is my favorite rifle. That has been my experience since I got it in 2010. Plus, it has been "effective" for me since I got it, and I have no doubt it will be effective for me when I take it hunting again this year. That will be 8 years running.
My beloved old Ruger 77, 30-06 has just sat in the safe for the last 8 years. In years past, I killed many a head of big game with that rifle, and it still holds a lot of sentimental value. But I like my custom .308 Norma more.
.308 Norma
Member
I'll second that.
Nature Boy
Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2015
- Messages
- 8,258
I’ll say that generally speaking, you can expect to see better accuracy and consistency with a custom rifle vs factory
I have a factory FN SPR .308 that was usually 0.500 to 0.600 MOA 5 shot groups with developed hand loads.
Like you, I got the hankering for a custom rifle a while back with the goal of shooting some F Class matches. I stuck with .308 and spared little in regards to expense, including the scope. I originally set a $5k budget and ended up spending $7.4k. It’s not hard to do.
The first thing I noticed was how difficult it was to find an optimal load because everything I tried shot so well. After time spent tuning its a legitimate 0.250-0.350 shooter.
That rifle made me a NRA High Master in my first 4 matches. My daughter starting shooting it this summer and she’s out shooting me with it.
I now have a 2nd custom rifle in 6BRA and my FN SPR is at the gunsmith getting reworked into a no comprise hunting rig.
Custom makes a difference.
I have a factory FN SPR .308 that was usually 0.500 to 0.600 MOA 5 shot groups with developed hand loads.
Like you, I got the hankering for a custom rifle a while back with the goal of shooting some F Class matches. I stuck with .308 and spared little in regards to expense, including the scope. I originally set a $5k budget and ended up spending $7.4k. It’s not hard to do.
The first thing I noticed was how difficult it was to find an optimal load because everything I tried shot so well. After time spent tuning its a legitimate 0.250-0.350 shooter.
That rifle made me a NRA High Master in my first 4 matches. My daughter starting shooting it this summer and she’s out shooting me with it.
I now have a 2nd custom rifle in 6BRA and my FN SPR is at the gunsmith getting reworked into a no comprise hunting rig.
Custom makes a difference.
Coal Dragger
member
The merits of some custom rifles are debatable.
Custom hunting rifle vs a high quality factory hunting rifle? Maybe worth it for peace of mind, cosmetics, or a very slight edge in precision potential. Factor in high end semi-custom rifles or high end factory rifles and the custom makes less sense if accuracy is your only consideration.
For target rifles of any discipline for an experienced shooter and someone who is competitive a custom rifle or very high end factory rifle (Anschutz, Accuracy International, SAKO TRG etc) is going to probably blow the doors off of an off the rack normal production rifle. An experienced shooter will be able to use the extra performance, even when actual mechanical accuracy differences between a good factory rifle and a custom or high end factory gun would appear small. Plus the task driven design of the stock, trigger, magazines and other components of a custom or high end factory rig will make getting maximum performance easier for the shooter.
If your competitive shooting is high volume, involves getting off the bench rest, inclement conditions, rough handling, or all of the above a rifle custom made or factory made for that kind of use is going to be expensive... and probably worth every penny.
Custom hunting rifle vs a high quality factory hunting rifle? Maybe worth it for peace of mind, cosmetics, or a very slight edge in precision potential. Factor in high end semi-custom rifles or high end factory rifles and the custom makes less sense if accuracy is your only consideration.
For target rifles of any discipline for an experienced shooter and someone who is competitive a custom rifle or very high end factory rifle (Anschutz, Accuracy International, SAKO TRG etc) is going to probably blow the doors off of an off the rack normal production rifle. An experienced shooter will be able to use the extra performance, even when actual mechanical accuracy differences between a good factory rifle and a custom or high end factory gun would appear small. Plus the task driven design of the stock, trigger, magazines and other components of a custom or high end factory rig will make getting maximum performance easier for the shooter.
If your competitive shooting is high volume, involves getting off the bench rest, inclement conditions, rough handling, or all of the above a rifle custom made or factory made for that kind of use is going to be expensive... and probably worth every penny.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
It is a mistake to use accuracy as the only metric by which a custom rifle is measured. I've never had a custom rifle built but I've had several custom revolvers built. The concept is similar enough to be relevant. Accuracy was never the most important aspect of any given build, it was a given. The most important thing was getting what I wanted, not what the major manufacturers thought would sell. Premium barrels, installed by a skilled gunsmith are going to be more consistent. They might not be be measurably more accurate with the rifle's favorite load than a good factory barrel but they will shoot better with all loads. The real meat of a custom is getting features, chamberings, configurations and details that you want that are not available on a factory gun. Things like barrel contour, barrel profile, barrel length, special sights, special mounts; added details like swivel mounts, barrel bands, bolt knob modification, checkering; virtually any finish you want whether it's fancy bluing, color case hardening, high tech coatings, platings or any combination thereof. Stocks aren't made to fit every shooter that might walk into a gun shop and buy one. They're made for YOU. Your height, wingspan, etc.. Want an ebony forend tip? Grisel type steel grip cap? Fancy checkering? Exhibition grade wood? You want the gunsmith to machine one-off parts from your own drawings? You want that special cartridge you've always had a hankering for but isn't offered in factory rifles? Engraving? All things are possible in a custom gun. Accuracy is the easy part.
troy fairweather
Member
here is my custom by john van patten in 2003 for me it fits like a glove
i just stated using this gun lately this is just 53 grains random load no work up. this is from me sighting it in from 100m i used the turrets then the base then went to far that enplanes the one t the right. the last 3 are .390 all these shots were shot in one barrel heat no cool down. its a 1909 Argentine mauser in 7x57 ai. customs keep tight groups and the stay rugged at the same timeWell articulated, well formulated and experienced responses; lots of class on this forum. What was solidified was what I already knew with a light slap of reality. Perfectly astute clearity and kindness, on the internet mind you. Great reading, thanks for taking the time.
LocoGringo
Member
I built a custom rifle for my son. The purpose was to start a tradition. With a custom rifle, I was able to think about him and what would work for a new shooter. His rifle is a bit confused, but gives him options to change in the future to further customize it to his liking. The heart of his rifle is the action. It is a Defiance Rebel short action with a scope base that has a 20 MOA cant. The serial number is his initials and birthday. From this action, he can do a lot of things in the future and it will always be "his" rifle. Currently, it has a 22" heavy hunting contour fluted Krieger barrel chambered in 7mm-08. It's a round that is capable of doing a lot while hand loading can manage recoil for a young shooter. It's got the crispest trigger (tweaked Timney) I have ever experienced...including Jewell. The stock is a hunting sporter HS Precision that is bedded and it wears a Leopold VX III with a basic duplex reticle. I've had a custom leather sling made for it and a semi custom knife and custom leather sheath to go with it. The rifle is a bit confused because it's on the heavy side to be a pure hunting rifle and it's not a precision/long range rifle, but it will be able to do both and if you have a certain amount of strength, it balances very nicely for offhand shooting. As he grows and is better able to decide what he wants, the action will allow him to do whatever he wants.
A major factor in my decision was the fun involved researching many of the options and deciding what I wanted for him. It was a lot of fun planning the build and going through the components to make the decision. It took a couple of months to decide and I still would have made changes knowing what I know now (mainly changed the caliber to 6.5 Creedmoor), but I started and decided on the project in late 2010. I just received the sheath and sling this year. The only thing left is a Pelican case to present it to him in about 4 or 5 years when he turns 13 or 14.
I understand my project is probably very different than yours, but there is a lot of fun (for me at least) in planning and deciding on the build. You first have to start with the purpose of the rifle and then build around it knowing your personal preferences. No factory rifle will ever be able to do that. A poster above was absolutely right...it's not just about accuracy. It's (at least partly) about getting EXACTLY what you want.
A major factor in my decision was the fun involved researching many of the options and deciding what I wanted for him. It was a lot of fun planning the build and going through the components to make the decision. It took a couple of months to decide and I still would have made changes knowing what I know now (mainly changed the caliber to 6.5 Creedmoor), but I started and decided on the project in late 2010. I just received the sheath and sling this year. The only thing left is a Pelican case to present it to him in about 4 or 5 years when he turns 13 or 14.
I understand my project is probably very different than yours, but there is a lot of fun (for me at least) in planning and deciding on the build. You first have to start with the purpose of the rifle and then build around it knowing your personal preferences. No factory rifle will ever be able to do that. A poster above was absolutely right...it's not just about accuracy. It's (at least partly) about getting EXACTLY what you want.
Nature Boy
Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2015
- Messages
- 8,258
I’m sure I speak for many here when I say we are ready and willing to help you spend your money
243winxb
Member
Savage Custom Rifle Shop: (413) 568-7001 ext. 4299
Remington/Dakota arms Custom shop. 605-347-4686
https://www.remington.com/news/2009/remington-acquires-dakota-arms
Fancy wood- search Google Images "remington custom shop rifles"
Remington/Dakota arms Custom shop. 605-347-4686
https://www.remington.com/news/2009/remington-acquires-dakota-arms
Fancy wood- search Google Images "remington custom shop rifles"
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For hunting or casual shooting .5 MOA is more than acceptable and possible with lots of off the shelf rifles. But a .5 MOA rifle won't win most serious competitions. Those guys are looking for rifles shooting in the .2's and it isn't unusual to see groups in the .1's. But even with a .2 MOA rifle, you have to have .2 MOA ammo and a .2 MOA trigger puller to make it happen. And at "normal" ranges that most of us shoot the difference between a .5 MOA rifle and a .2 MOA rifle is negligible.
sage5907
Member
One thing needs to be clarified in this discussion. There are at least 3 different types of custom rifles and this doesn't include target rifles. The original version of yester year had a mirror finished blued barrel, a wood stock with steel grip cap, and all kinds of special items added. They were usually high quality control feed action with high quality blue, high quality closely inleted wood with steel grip cap, and many special features. There are pleasing to the eye like fine furniture. The long range rifles of today don't fit into this category. They have trued high quality push feed actions, special barrels many with muzzle brakes or cans, non-wood free floated stocks that have things sticking out all over them, and many of them weigh too much to carry in the mountains. The mountain rifles of today are a cross between the other two versions. They have composite stocks, lightweight barrels and usually shoot high velocity cartridges. Some people in this discussion have discussed the accuracy of target rifles and the one version of the custom rifle that fits this accuracy are the long range rifles.
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i wish i could share the pics i have of rifles guys are carrying in the mountains... they're not light.
also, while i don't personally recommend them, there are many custom actions that offer control feed. e.g. defiance (optional), bighorn, mausingfield. you can also get your choice of extractor. e.g. rem700 style, savage style, or mini-m16. your choice of things like a straight or swept bolt handle, choice of how long you want the bolt handle, choice of dimensions on feed and ejection ports, etc. if you don't know enough to have an opinion on these things, just spec'ing out what you think looks cool is probably a bad idea. i'd suggest sticking with one of the standard "custom" models, like the stuteville precision one i linked because at least you know they work. it's pretty easy to spec out a custom gun that won't work that well.
also, while i don't personally recommend them, there are many custom actions that offer control feed. e.g. defiance (optional), bighorn, mausingfield. you can also get your choice of extractor. e.g. rem700 style, savage style, or mini-m16. your choice of things like a straight or swept bolt handle, choice of how long you want the bolt handle, choice of dimensions on feed and ejection ports, etc. if you don't know enough to have an opinion on these things, just spec'ing out what you think looks cool is probably a bad idea. i'd suggest sticking with one of the standard "custom" models, like the stuteville precision one i linked because at least you know they work. it's pretty easy to spec out a custom gun that won't work that well.
Nature Boy
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Another thing to consider regarding a true custom action vs. a factory option is the service you get.
Case in point. My 6BRA is built around a Kelbly’s Stolle Panda action. I had 2 sets of scope rings. Didn’t like the high rings (bottom pic) so I switch to the medium rings (top pic).
Problem is when I did that the bolt interfered with the ocular end of my scope.
I called Kelbly’s to get advice on how to address it as there was a match I wanted to shoot the upcoming weekend. Ian Kelbly answered my call and said to send the bolt to him FedEx and he would bend the handle and get it turned around to me in one day. And that’s exactly what he did.
There was no invoice in the box when it arrived so I called back to ask how much I owed him. His answer: “nothing, this is what we do”
Try to get that level of service from any factory rifle. Sure, you’re paying for it, but only you can answer the question, “is it worth it”
Case in point. My 6BRA is built around a Kelbly’s Stolle Panda action. I had 2 sets of scope rings. Didn’t like the high rings (bottom pic) so I switch to the medium rings (top pic).
Problem is when I did that the bolt interfered with the ocular end of my scope.
I called Kelbly’s to get advice on how to address it as there was a match I wanted to shoot the upcoming weekend. Ian Kelbly answered my call and said to send the bolt to him FedEx and he would bend the handle and get it turned around to me in one day. And that’s exactly what he did.
There was no invoice in the box when it arrived so I called back to ask how much I owed him. His answer: “nothing, this is what we do”
Try to get that level of service from any factory rifle. Sure, you’re paying for it, but only you can answer the question, “is it worth it”
$1,500 for an action, $1,000 barrel, $1,000 stock, $500 bottom metal, $2,250 glass/ base/ rings is my ballpark estimate of build components that would satisfy my wants. What should I allow for a decent smith? I am trying to decide between going the piece build route or a package from one of the gazzillion custom builders available.
IMO I would look at what I want the rifle to do. what is the purpose of the rifle? that will determine stock/bottom metal choices. I wanted a target rifle that could serve as a heavy hunting rifle. I also wanted to get maximum accuracy and didn't want to pay for inletting and bedding on a stock. I went with a chassis. Kenetic Research Group makes high quality chassis that will hold up very well and don't weight a ton.
My barreled action with a jewel trigger installed and tuned to 2lbs, muzzle brake installed and timed, cerekote on the barrel and action and a set of american rifle company scope rings was $3500 (approx) after taxes and shipping. (american rifle company mausingfield action, K&P cut rifling barrel, work done by LongRifles Inc out of south dakota)
from giving LRI the "go ahead" on the build to receiving the barreled action it took 10 days
I added a $550 KRG X-Ray chassis (3lbs) and a vortex razor gen II 3x18 scope, and a harris bipod
if you want a rifle more oriented to hunting, you might not want the "cheaper" chassis option. you might want a manners or mcmillan stock which will add cost.
Many smiths have priced their services to be transparent enough that you are not paying for too many "smithing" fees. my advice, continue the discussion here, then call a few smiths. popular/reputable smiths include Short Action Customs, LongRifles Inc, Patriot Valley Arms, GA Precision, and this list goes on.
for example, you can play with the features on this link and have a barreled action ready to bolt into a stock/chassis for $2400. all you need is a stock, rings and a scope.you can obviously add features as you desire.
http://patriotvalleyarms.com/minuteman-barreled-action/
My barreled action with a jewel trigger installed and tuned to 2lbs, muzzle brake installed and timed, cerekote on the barrel and action and a set of american rifle company scope rings was $3500 (approx) after taxes and shipping. (american rifle company mausingfield action, K&P cut rifling barrel, work done by LongRifles Inc out of south dakota)
from giving LRI the "go ahead" on the build to receiving the barreled action it took 10 days
I added a $550 KRG X-Ray chassis (3lbs) and a vortex razor gen II 3x18 scope, and a harris bipod
if you want a rifle more oriented to hunting, you might not want the "cheaper" chassis option. you might want a manners or mcmillan stock which will add cost.
Many smiths have priced their services to be transparent enough that you are not paying for too many "smithing" fees. my advice, continue the discussion here, then call a few smiths. popular/reputable smiths include Short Action Customs, LongRifles Inc, Patriot Valley Arms, GA Precision, and this list goes on.
for example, you can play with the features on this link and have a barreled action ready to bolt into a stock/chassis for $2400. all you need is a stock, rings and a scope.you can obviously add features as you desire.
http://patriotvalleyarms.com/minuteman-barreled-action/
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