LnL 9mm crimping issues, need advice

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George P

George P

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Bought a new LnL and have had it set up for 38s - working GREAT!. Decided it was time to load up 2-3000 9mm. Setting and adjusting and resetting and adjusting. Got the deprime right, got the flare just right, got the powder drop just right; can't get any consistency on the seat and crimp die. For every 1 good one, I am getting 3 where the crimp just isn't right. It comes out LOOKING right - COL matches with the factory sample and caliper, but then the bullet can be spun by hand. These are the older Hornady 3 set dies, not their current fancy ones with multiple parts for seating and crimping.

Reset it, get the depth right, but not the crimp; reset again, get the crimp that seem right and a good depth, run 2-3 through as singles and 2/3 bullets are loose. I'm spending more time trying to get this set than if I had used my old RCBS Jr. single stage, on which I NEVER had an issue with these dies for over 30+ years

In three hours, I have 12 good rounds, 25 bad ones and am at my wits end.

What the you-know-what am I missing or doing wrong? Watched the Hornday taper crimp die video, when his directions weren't working, pulled out the RCBS die instructions from 35 years ago and started to at least get some good ones, but not consistent. And yes, the lock rings are tight.

So folks with LnL, where to turn or what to do? I bought this press because of the sheer volume of 9mm I need to reload, but I AM frustrated at the moment and have stopped, walked away, and opened a tall Heinekin......
 
First die resizes and deprimes; second die flares; then powder drop; finally bullet seating and crimping. The only difference between now and the last 30+ years is doing it on a LnL and not on the RCBS single stage. I haven't had to adjust those dies in all these years and every round came out perfect. BUT when faced with 6 pulls of the handle per round and about 10,000 empties, I opted for the progressive. I have a Dillon years ago, only issue was getting the primers to feed right; I reload shotgun on progressives, so the concept isn't new or alien..............and I get a good one for a few rounds and then I can spin the bullets. Doesn't matter what brand of brass as a good one will come out and then a bad from the same brand...........................
 
Frequently, folks do the case mouth expanding and flaring in the powder drop system. It frees up a station on the progressive press for other tasks. If you are using one of these drop tubes and it is sized for 38 caliber, it will over expand the case mouth for 9mm.

If you wish to use a standard expander die, your press should have come with a drop tube with a reverse cone cut into the bottom. The cone will center the case during the powder drop and not work the case mouth.

I hope this makes sense. Hope it helps.
 
Also bear in mind 9mm brass varies in thickness. You may need a smaller sizing die for the thinner stuff.
 
9mm brass varies in length and wall thickness. Also you really need to adj the crimp with all stations full. I use a separate taper crimp die. This simplfies the setup since the seating is just seating and not crimping. I have never used my seating die to crimp for this reason. You will have to find the middle of the range and set it. This should handle the long thick ones and the rest should fall in line.

Try sorting by head stamp, this will help you identify the ones causing all the issues.
 
George P said:
I am getting 3 where the crimp just isn't right. It comes out LOOKING right - COL matches with the factory sample and caliper, but then the bullet can be spun by hand.
Click to expand...
Neck tension holds the bullet tight on 9MM ammo. The "crimp" on 9MM merely removes the bell on the shortest cases which will give a hair of (Maybe .001) inward movement on the longest cases.
 
ray15 said:
Also bear in mind 9mm brass varies in thickness. You may need a smaller sizing die for the thinner stuff.
Click to expand...
Yep.

Plus the 9MM case is tapered, so be sure the sizer is all the way down with no daylight between it and the shell plate when actually sizing a case.
 
Walkalong said:
Yep.

Plus the 9MM case is tapered, so be sure the sizer is all the way down with no daylight between it and the shell plate when actually sizing a case.
Click to expand...
And yet, both the Hornady video and the RCBS instructions say to have ~ 1/2" between the shell plate and the bottom of the die.........
 
lol....ok. But do check the sizer, just in case. The space between the shell holder and the seater/crimp die isn't real critical as long as you can seat them and adjust the crimp ok.
 
Can you spin a bullet in the case before the crimp die?

If not, you are over crimping, brass will “spring back” lead won’t.

If yes, can you seat an FMJ or JHP in the case before you flare or bell and spin it?

If yes you have a die that won’t size enough or bullets that are too small in diameter.

Pull a bullet on a “spinner” and post a photo, that will help.
 
George P said:
On the LnL, all pistol drop tubes are the same; it merely acts like a funnel for the powder drop.
Click to expand...

Not true if you are using the powder through expander. If you are expanding before you drop powder that may be correct, I don't do it that way because I want to run a powder cop and bullet feeder.
 
IMAG1313[1].jpg
The Powder Through Expander (PTX) is on the left. The three other items are the non-expanding funnels. If you are using the PTX, make sure it's the .355 one and that it's adjusted correctly.
If you are not using the PTX, then check your sizing first. Then the expanding, then the seating/crimping.
Maybe back up the seater so it doesn't crimp at all.
On my 9MM I had to adjust the sizing die down very far down to get enough of the case sized to fit into my Lone Wolf Glock barrels.
 
Yep. Hornady Powder through expander (PTX) and powder drop dies are 2 different animals.
My LNL AP came with the latter.

The powder through expander dies are size specific, and I believe one came with each bullet feeder die I purchased at a later date.

I have a rather crap-tastic but fast way to set my 'ballpark' beginning taper crimp on 9 and 45. (I taper crimp and seat at the same time)
Back off the crimp. Get your OAL where you want it. Back off the seater. Raise ram/cartridge full up and hand turn the 'taper crimp' down till it gets ~firm~.
Usually gets me pretty close,,,,
 
I had to put my rcbs seat die down pretty far to get good crimps.
As suggested above set for length, back off stem adjust for crimp and run stem back down.
IMG_20180920_222224.jpg
 
This is how I load on a progressive Hornady L-N-L press. Many think that I am being in inefficient, but it works for me. It may not work for you but that is the beauty of our hobby.

I resize the cases then expand the case mouths in one operation. The cases are decapped in the process.

I clean the cases at this point. If necessary for certain cases, I check the case length and trim them.

I prefer to prime off the press. The on press systems have not been reliable enough for me (100% reliable is the only acceptable level of reliability at this point in the process). So, I prime off the press.

Since my cases are already expanded, my powder drop system just drops powders. I do not plan for it to expand the case mouth, just get the powder into the case.

If you put the processes all together to get a reloaded round at the end of an unloaded case, a of a bit of a more care must be be exercised.

Handgun cases generally do not need to be trimmed at this point of the process. If the cases are variable lengths, it is best to be able to trim the cases to the same length before releasing the fish back to the "wild".

Handgun plinking is grand. Just be careful out there.,
 
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I had an issue with my Hornady sizer die not sizing the brass tight enough.
If the sizer does not do it's job correctly more crimp won't really help IMO.
Drove me bleeping nuts trying to set up my new LNL with the Hornady dies. Messed with it for a while.....and a while longer....and a bit more....
Finally a thought to try the other sizer entered my brain. (this happens on rare occasions, and the thoughts usually escape before I can grasp them:))
Changed to my Lee sizer problem went away.
Sent the Hornady Die back to Hornady and they "fixed" / (maybe replaced it) now either one will work but the Lee still sizes tighter.
Dia of the unexpanded neck of some sized cases might be interesting.
 
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George P said:
NOT the sizer, the seating/crimping die..............sorry if I wasn't clear
Click to expand...
It is more likely that your issue is with your Sizing die than your Seat/Crimp die. This is because your bullet should be held in place by neck tension, not the amount of crimp you're using.

Your Sizing die has to be all the way down until it touches the Shell plate. I would also recommend, when setting up your press, you use brass with all identical headstamps...I personally don't load R-P 9mm cases at all; too thin.

It is also possible that you are over crimping your loaded rounds. When you overcrimp, you are compressing the bullet and the case mouth. The brass of the case springs back; the bullet, not so much. This often allows the bullets to spin in the case.

It is also likely that your "older Hornady 3 set dies" are roll crimping your cases. Older Hornady 9mm die sets had a Seat/Crimp die that roll crimped rather than taper crimped. This would provide an excellent opportunity to get a separate Taper Crimp die and separate your seating and crimping. I've never crimped with my Seating die, except when starting out with my original RCBS 9mm set

As already mentioned, you need to set your seating depth with all the die stations filled with cases
 
9mmepiphany said:
It is also likely that your "older Hornady 3 set dies" are roll crimping your cases. Older Hornady 9mm die sets had a Seat/Crimp die that roll crimped rather than taper crimped.
Click to expand...
If they have changed this, great! They did reloaders a disservice using an insert that halfway did a "roll" and a "taper" crimp. It's a lousy setup for proper taper crimps. The same insert was used for 9MM and .38 Spl. Cheap do it all cost savings.

Look at the insert that crimps, if it has a pronounced ledge vs a very shallow angled long taper for a proper taper crimp, get a proper taper crimp die or a new seater with a proper one built in.

The sizer needs to be tight enough to work with the thinnest brass. The expander needs to open up the case enough to accept a bullet, but still have adequate neck tension. You need to adjust the taper "crimp" so it just removes the bell. People who are adjusting it to try to make it "hold" the bullet or make it feed are doing it wrong.

If your sizer is not tight enough to work with the thinnest brass you need a new one or you will have to sort brass. If your expander is to little you need a new one, if it is too big you can polish it down, or get a new one. Only you can adjust the crimp die properly in your setup.

When running a seated ready to crimp round up into the taper crimp die with nothing else in the press you should feel very light resistance, nothing more.
 
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