40 Caliber S&W: What's Your Opinion?

The 40 S&W is a fine and effective round for SD. Is it better than 9mm or 45 acp? It's debatable as many of the answers here illustrate.

To me it's a moot point. I had the be 40 S&W years ago that I got rid of because it wasn't the right gun for me or the right cartridge at the time.

I'm with ATLDave. 10mm is what I prefer in a 40 caliber semiauto round.

Please note as well, I am not saying a 9mm Parabellum can't do the job, I am saying that other rounds, the .40 included, do the job better.

Pistol does not have to be all-steel. .40 S&W is very easy and pleasant to shoot from a SIG P229 with and alloy frame.

I started moving toward the 40 at about the time others started moving back to 9mm. Cheap used guns (and even new ones) are one factor. Another factor is that the same advances in bulllet design that have impacted 9mm have also been applied to 40.

I recently bought a brand new Kahr PM40 with night sights for $357 including sales tax. The same gun in 9mm is still priced at over $500 with regular sights. You get one less round in the magazine. That’s something of an incentive to buy a 40 as a carry gun.

I have my eye on a used 40 at a local shop that has been in the case since before Christmas. That gun simply refuses to move, and this is a shop that moves a lot of guns. and in a couple of months I’m going to make them a quite low offer and see what happens. If it were a 9mm it would have sold in February.

Ammo availability is another plus. Even at the peak of the banic there was 40 defensive ammo available at Walmart when even the most pricy 9mm rounds were nowhere to be found.

The .40 shoe-horns subsonic .45 ACP performance into a high capacity 9mm pistol.

The only other GLOCKs I own are the slimline .45 ACP G36.





GR

In my younger and cheaper days I had no reason to shoot 40. Handguns are just range toys for me, beyond the nightstand revolver, so 9mm is great and cost effective. Even though the gun press of the late '80s and '90s pushed the 40 so hard one almost felt the need to apologize for preferring 9mm arms, I stayed with 9. For years my 'collection' consisted of one 9 and one 22. Later in life, I can buy what I want and have acquired more guns. I also reload now, so most handgun calibers are within a few cents per round. But I still like a deal, and wanted to build a P80 Glock just for fun - and have plenty of nines. So I bought a police trade-in G22 and had at it. Trying to resist buying a trade-in P226 in 40 now..

To its ballistics, I like the cartridge. It does have plenty of virtues. Power is certainly there. With light bullets it does a fair .357 mag impression, capable of pushing 155gr. bullets nearly as fast as a 158gr. 357. And the duty load of a 180gr. bullet at 990fps is plenty effective. Being a fairly recent cartridge, its design is informed by the lessens taught by the success of 9mm. I think of it as a scaled-up 9, with the same sort of excellent efficiency and accuracy potential over a useful range of bullet weights.

I also bought several boxes of police trade-in Ranger Bonded 165JHP for cheap. Drastic expansion combined with deep penetration and barrier performance beyond 9mm's envelope, and in a full size gun like my G22 it's as easy to shoot. And you get 15 chances. But mainly it's plated and FMJ reloads for range fun.

Although I haven't yet, I also like that most .40 guns are convertible to .357 Sig with just a barrel. If I buy that trade-in 226 it will get a .357 barrel for sure. More pure fun - like I said I have plenty of nines. And then reload cost is just barely above 9mm.

If I carried it would be a 16 ounce 38 +p or 9mm revolver or a single-stack 9. Even though I know the 40 is a bigger stick, I'd only try to take advantage of that in an open-carry situation where I could use a full size gun. But for fun, I see 40 as having just as much or more going for it than other more-powerful-than-9 cartridges, and the economy produced by range brass and the police trade-in guns and even ammo makes it pretty cheap to play. I like to practice with somewhat powerful guns for fun and to develop recoil tolerance, with 40 and 357 mag being my favorite supplements to a main course of 9mm and 38 special.

I just recently traded my FNS 9mm longslide for a full-sized S&W M&P 2.0 in .40 with a manual safety. I was going to get the 9mm version, but the .40 only gives up 2 rounds capacity (15+1 rather than 17+1), is certainly at least as effective as the best 9mm JHP, and 200gr Buffalo Bore hardcast loads in .40 are probably more effective vs. bear than the comparable load in 9mm (I know that’s a cliche, but I like camping so the thought crossed my mind). Ammo for .40 is relatively cheap and plentiful, it’s accurate and fun to shoot (a major criteria), and it scores better in USPSA.

If I were a police armored issuing guns for a bunch of officers of varying skill and stature, I could see 9mm as the better choice from a utilitarian standpoint (arguably just as effective with the right loads and easier to learn to shoot well). And in a compact gun, I think .40’s extra recoil might be more of a detriment. But for me, and my uses and interests, .40 is an excellent all-around cartridge.

Prior to 1994 our local city PD were issued Smith 65's loaded with 38+P+ ammo which came very close to 357 mag performance. Sheriff's deputies and county PD officers could carry anything they paid for and could qualify with. And just about everything from BHP's, 1911's and even a few Smith 29's were carried. But the Smith 686 was most common.

In 1994 the city adopted Smith 5906's which have recently replaced with Glock 17's. The county and Sheriff's office issued Glock 22's which they still carry. The GSP has had 45 ACP, 40 S&W, 45GAP and currently 9mm. Since 1994 there have been 13 officer involved shootings. Seven with 9mm, six with 40 S&W. No more than 2 shots have been fired and there have been no survivors. The results have been exactly the same. And quite good.

Our sheriff's dept is discussing changing to 9mm and after the election this fall will probably do so. Their have done a lot of research and talked to other departments. Their research has shown no difference in effectiveness. But practice ammo for 9mm is significantly cheaper. And the guns seem to hold up longer.

If you compare the best 9mm and 40 loads to real world 357 mag loads you'll find that 9mm comes VERY close, and sometimes beats 357 mag loads with 124/125 gr bullets. And the best 40 S&W loads come VERY close, and sometimes beats 357 loads with 155-180 gr bullets.

For SD against human threats I've seen nothing to prove to me that any cartridge offers any significant advantage over 9mm. I think the heavier bullets MAY offer some advantage to 40 S&W if there may be a need to shoot larger 4 legged predators. But anything the 40 does, 10mm does better. I've had several 40's in the past and have no issue with them. But I've settled on 9mm and 10mm for my serious work with semi-auto pistols.

I have a couple of .40 S&W pistols. One that was bought during the panic and one of the only calibers that I could find ammo to shoot was the 40 Smith & Wesson. The other pistol was given to me as a gift.

There are so many 40s out there that it's not going anywhere as a caliber.

It's a little snappier than the 9 mm 'pop' or the push of a 45, but it's not anywhere near uncontrollable.

This thread reminds me that I have to hop on at least one of those police surplus deals. Probably either a Sig (probably a 229) or Beretta (96).

jmr40 said:

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If you compare the best 9mm and 40 loads to real world 357 mag loads you'll find that 9mm comes VERY close, and sometimes beats 357 mag loads with 124/125 gr bullets. And the best 40 S&W loads come VERY close, and sometimes beats 357 loads with 155-180 gr bullets.

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When looking at the .357 Magnum offerings of the big ammunition manufacturers, I have to agree. It seems they water down this particular cartridge quite significantly.

The Evangelist Cowboy said:

Of course one must also note that in the examples mentioned above bullet construction did have a major role to play in the failures of said caliber LRN or FMJRN are terrible to use on humans, we see this even today in Iraq and Afghanistan with the 9mm failing to stop determined attackers since our forces only used FMJ ball ammo, we still haven’t learned from history. Even the 1986 Miami-Dade shootout had the 9mm fail and that was with the silvertip Winchester bullet, fairly hi-tech for the age.

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Does the 9mm fmj fail to stop a determined attacker in places referenced above with a solid chest shot? I haven't read much about soldiers' experiences.

Bad guys have taken multiple hits by hollow point ammo without going down.

I read about the Miami shootout. The hollow point bullet penetrated to within one inch of the heart of the bad guy. If it was fmj, would the shootout have ended sooner?

Any handgun caliber can fail to stop an attacker with even multiple center mass hits. South Carolina State Trooper Mark Coates was killed by a single 22 LR shot from a handgun fired at 5-6 foot range that penetrated his ascending aorta after Trooper Coates had hit the perp 5 times center mass with 357 Magnum Silvertips fired at the same range.

In another gunfight, a slender perpetrator was not stopped after being hit 6 times at point blank range in the chest with 45 Long Colts, 5 times at contact range between the shoulder blades with 38 Special +P, and two hits center mass with .44 Magnum at a range of 15 feet and closing. He lived 10 days after the shootout.

I have never seen any data on whether or how much Agent Jerry Dove's 9 mm Silvertip expanded after completely penetrating Platt's upper arm, chest wall, and right lung. If it did significantly expand, it is quite possible that a non-expanding 9 mm FMJ would have penetrated Platt's heart and stopped the fight much sooner.

WrongHanded said:

When looking at the .357 Magnum offerings of the big ammunition manufacturers, I have to agree. It seems they water down this particular cartridge quite significantly.

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This is a widely repeated myth, while there may be some overlap with plus p and plus p plus loads in 9mm against .357 mag, the cartridge still suffers from the weakness of all autoloading rounds which is case capacity, I can run heavier bullets at the same and even faster speeds than any 9mm thats just the way it is. The first semi auto load that is comparable and I mean truly comparable to .357 Mag is 10mm Auto but thats a convo for another time.

pblanc said:

Any handgun caliber can fail to stop an attacker with even multiple center mass hits. South Carolina State Trooper Mark Coates was killed by a single 22 LR shot from a handgun fired at 5-6 foot range that penetrated his ascending aorta after Trooper Coates had hit the perp 5 times center mass with 357 Magnum Silvertips fired at the same range.

In another gunfight, a slender perpetrator was not stopped after being hit 6 times at point blank range in the chest with 45 Long Colts, 5 times at contact range between the shoulder blades with 38 Special +P, and two hits center mass with .44 Magnum at a range of 15 feet and closing. He lived 10 days after the shootout.

I have never seen any data on whether or how much Agent Jerry Dove's 9 mm Silvertip expanded after completely penetrating Platt's upper arm, chest wall, and right lung. If it did significantly expand, it is quite possible that a non-expanding 9 mm FMJ would have penetrated Platt's heart and stopped the fight much sooner.

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We all see these anecdotal evidence, these "Well I heard" and "this one shooting" no matter how well documented one incident may be it does not take away from the years of research and development from men like Cooper, Jordan, Keith, and Skelton. History shows the feebleness of the caliber (Not Cartridge, the actual .355-.357 caliber) in a variety of fights in both war and law enforcement uses. The caliber had to be souped up and hotrodded time and time again (.38 Super, .357 Mag, 9mm Plus P, .357 Sig) before it was deemed "worthy" while it can be argued as worthy it cant be held to the false belief "just as good as (insert better caliber here)", if its so effective and so equal why all the development to make it better so to speak? By the time you get into the speeds needed for this caliber to work efficiently any gains in recoil reduction once seen are now gone you should just go up in caliber diameter and bullet weight.

For me the 40 is a Goldie Locks gun. It's just right.

My Glock 22 is my everyday truck gun.

It's my night stand gun.

It's my light weight hiking gun when up in the Rockies. We have big black bears, mountain lions, and tweakers oh my!!

My all steel 45s, 357s, and 44s are just too much to lump around these steep hills for me.
9mm is too small to be this versital in my opinion.
My only 9mm is a shield and that's where I believe the 9mm shines. In small compact ccw guns.

Also I'd own a glock 20 in 10mm but just can't get a good grip. I've held one several times at the gun shop and it is just too thick.

pblanc said:

I have never seen any data on whether or how much Agent Jerry Dove's 9 mm Silvertip expanded after completely penetrating Platt's upper arm, chest wall, and right lung. If it did significantly expand, it is quite possible that a non-expanding 9 mm FMJ would have penetrated Platt's heart and stopped the fight much sooner.

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Looks like the Silvertip expanded a great deal (bullet 'B'), but the recovered diameter isn't part of the medical examiners report.

All Glock 23.4's for me!

^Me too, without the debate about the enhanced 9mm vs .40 I just like the idea of a heavy slug.

I used to use 185gr in .45acp and now I get 180gr with more capacity and lighter gun in a G23 and that’s a winning combination.

I like it fine. Got out of it years ago when I determined I didnt like shooting it as much as 9mm and .45 (I was also slower with it than both) and i had wanted to simplify my caliber selection.

Now with trade in prices and the fact that i have been reloading and somehow ended up with a ton of .40 brass i am tempted to pick one up again.

I am perfectly comfortable with 9mm for carry duty, but another caliber to load for is always fun.

Since my 40 caliber guns are almost worthless on the used gun market today,.............. I will keep them and shoot the snot out of them until they break.
I kinda like the 40, it makes big holes in the target that I can see without glasses!
and ammo is getting cheaper for 40

I'm a .40 fan boy and make no bones about it, my preferred loads are 155 gr. & 165 gr., Gold dots, HST or XTP with my taste leaning more to the 155s, I'm a proponent of "speed kills" and big speed kills better..because of this if I'm going to shoot a 180 gr. .40 it's going to be out of a 10 mm so I can get into that 1200 fps range, all my .40s are service sized and built from the ground up around the .40 not modified to .40 9mm frames. I feel it is the most versatile caliber on the market with ammo ranging from a 135 gr. Nosler at 1450 fps all the way up to a 200 gr hard cast that loafs along at about 850 fps and nearly any weight and velocity between the 2 that you can think of .....so in short, hell yeah I like .40s
My .40s; Sig P229, HK USP 40, CZ 40B,

don't get me wrong Iown some 9 mm pistols
CZ P07 ( Freaking awesome pistol )


Shield 9mm, IMOP the best damn 9mm single stack sub -compact pistol on the market ( along with my .327 mag pocket pistol (speed Kills) )


and of course being a gun guy I own a .45 acp 1911 ( don't we all?)


despite it all at the end of the day I'm a .40 guy

"I believe Paul Harrell does a good job of comparing 9mm to .40 S&W in this video."

Chuck Norris smarted off to Paul Harrell once..... ONCE!

The .40 is a big thumbs down for me - too much wear and tear on the platform. I narrowed all my handguns down to the 3 best chamberings (for me): 9x19mm, 10mm, and .45 Colt, for good reason. I tried but eliminated .40 Short & Weak, .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .454 Casull, .44 mag, .357 mag, and .400 corbon.

Im of the opinion that I should own something in 40s&w. Probably of the Sig variety.

maybe "the real world" doesnt see much of a difference, but I do like the idea that I can be carrying a cartridge with a heavier payload.

as to the miami shootout.... if that 9mm that most arguments hinge on had been an FMJ, it wouldve stopped the fight sooner.
or, if the FBI had been carrying 7.62x25 Tokarev, the body armor wouldnt have been nearly as problematic.